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Electronically controled valve in a valvetrain with power solenoids"it´s possib — Parallax Forums

Electronically controled valve in a valvetrain with power solenoids"it´s possib

Luiz mauricio mionLuiz mauricio mion Posts: 77
edited 2008-08-23 11:40 in Propeller 1
I have in my mind one system to control the valves in "explosion engines" like a v8 engines or other , to control the pull· up and pull down of valve train.
this is aplicable to be more·income of engine·,and economy
Thank you

Comments

  • Luiz mauricio mionLuiz mauricio mion Posts: 77
    edited 2008-08-21 11:44
    This correct is without valvetrain,only valves controlled with power solenoids or magnets via microcontroller suport to command the time of aperture of valve .this is interesting to economy of combustible or performance control in esportive cars .
    In theory this work, but i never tested in real planes of this matherial word.

    Thankyou , send me email if have interest in this.

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  • BradCBradC Posts: 2,601
    edited 2008-08-21 11:47
    I recall seeing electromagnetic valve actuators years ago. They were developing them for an F1 engine. Not sure it ever really made it to use.
    There is a massive (relatively) inertia to be accurately controlled at very high speed in ferocious environments.. I'd suggest the mechanical portion of the task to be incredibly trying.

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    Pull my finger!
  • QuattroRS4QuattroRS4 Posts: 916
    edited 2008-08-21 11:53
    Some reading ...

    http://paultan.org/archives/2005/07/14/camless-solenoid-valve-engines/

    http://www.italiaspeed.com/2005/cars/other/technology/02/05_02.html

    the 2008 Mercedes C class uses the KDI EVT engine ..

    Apparently many have examples of Solenoid valves replacing the inlet valves ... more complicated replacing the exhaust valves.. Apparently·varying versions of full EVT(electronic valve train) engines are in development·worldwide ..Fiat,Mercedes and GM to name a few..



    Regards,
    John

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    'Necessity is the mother of invention'

    Post Edited (QuattroRS4) : 8/21/2008 12:15:47 PM GMT
  • evanhevanh Posts: 15,545
    edited 2008-08-21 11:59
    I'm guessing a bit here, I've virtually never looked under a hood, but I know that the valves are mechanically driven by the cams, which are in turn driven via the cam-belt running off the main crankshaft. Fuel injection is electronically timed of course, and fuel mixing too I assume.

    Maybe in modern sports engines there is an electric motor to adjust the lead/lag of the valves? Is this the sort of adjustment you are after?


    Evan
  • evanhevanh Posts: 15,545
    edited 2008-08-21 12:05
    QuattroRS4 said...
    http://paultan.org/archives/2005/07/14/camless-solenoid-valve-engines/
    Ah, I see. That's pretty extreme. What happens if the exhaust valve doesn't open, even once?


    Evan
  • Luiz mauricio mionLuiz mauricio mion Posts: 77
    edited 2008-08-21 12:06
    I thought about this approximately 20 years behind.
    this is not ideal for use in race cars , but for economy and options of performance in esportive cars

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  • Luiz mauricio mionLuiz mauricio mion Posts: 77
    edited 2008-08-21 12:20
    The power of explosion motors and combustible,"more combustible and oxigem in chamber of combustion "more power and rpm it´s logical.
    the control of valve "time if the valve is opened or exaust valve controled "more economy of combustible at more rpm of engine need to run with low gasoline and oxygen or other combustible .

    Sorry about my english

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  • QuattroRS4QuattroRS4 Posts: 916
    edited 2008-08-21 12:20
    Luiz said...
    I thought about this approximately 20 years behind.
    this is not ideal for use in race cars , but for economy and options of performance in esportive cars

    Apparently there is a marked improvement in torque using an EVT setup v Standard valvetrain on otherwise identical engines.

    Diesel engines took a massive leap forward once variable valve timing technology was perfected .. Are we due further enhancements once EVT for diesel is available ?.. due to higher compression of diesel engines I am sure this will further add to the exhaust valve headaches ... I think many prototypes will bend conrods !

    I think this thread should be 'Sandboxed' ..

    Regards,
    John Twomey

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    'Necessity is the mother of invention'
  • Luiz mauricio mionLuiz mauricio mion Posts: 77
    edited 2008-08-21 12:32
    Thankyou for all

    look my musics and aboutme
    www.mymusicstream.com/member/9015

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  • BradCBradC Posts: 2,601
    edited 2008-08-21 17:57
    QuattroRS4 said...
    I think many prototypes will bend conrods !

    I've thought about that a _lot_.. having bent a rod or two previously.
    If the device is electromechanically actuated, then the holding and positioning force of the actuator needs to be stronger than the conrod to bend it.
    I do however envision dented pistons and bent valve rims [noparse]:)[/noparse] (and yes, I've done that too)..

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    Pull my finger!
  • Luiz mauricio mionLuiz mauricio mion Posts: 77
    edited 2008-08-21 20:03
    I need more ways in my life, this stranger around me perseguem me nad i do not live in tranquility this mondo are esquesite INEED HELPP HELPP HELP i say help help, i need more friends to ineed more friends to,,, ineed more money MORE MORE...


    HELLO for all

    hydraulic or solenoid?

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  • BradCBradC Posts: 2,601
    edited 2008-08-22 16:14
    I think that's a question better asked in a mechanical engineering type forum really..

    Picture an engine doing 13,000 RPM.. now those little valves are rocketing open and closed about 100 times per second. That's a hell of a lof of force to be throwing around. Plus you are not just opening and closing them. To get maximum flow you need to be following the piston up and down, so you need to very accurately position the valve. (Why is cam profile so important?)

    As Uncle Arthur always said.. remember kiddies, there are some things in life that are not meant to bounce. Valves are one of them..

    Nice academic conversation though..

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    Pull my finger!
  • parskoparsko Posts: 501
    edited 2008-08-22 16:45
    I've followed this conversation myself as well. Bottom line is: higher displacement engines (with high lift requirements) cannot use servo controlled valves, for many reasons. Heat, speed, current being just a few. There have been successful implementations of this concept on small displacement motors (for instance, on 50cc engines or way less, 12cc). These use piezo actuators, and can run pretty fast.

    rbowes1.11net.com/dbowes/

    That guy is probably the most advanced in this field, on a hobby level.

    Also, this has been discussed at length in another post:

    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=735134

    Check that out for more info. This is possible, but will require lots of resources.

    -Parsko
  • evanhevanh Posts: 15,545
    edited 2008-08-23 00:38
    It's interesting to note that the Motorola link is "archived" now. Possibly an indication that deployment of the Electronic Valve Control system was shelved. Presumably due to reliability.


    Evan
  • Luiz mauricio mionLuiz mauricio mion Posts: 77
    edited 2008-08-23 10:28
    I thought about this approximately 20 years behind.

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  • Graham StablerGraham Stabler Posts: 2,510
    edited 2008-08-23 11:35
    At the operating speeds I think it would be very difficult to match the performance of a CAM. I suspect for electronic control a new valve system would be required, piezoelectric shutters or something.

    Graham
  • Luiz mauricio mionLuiz mauricio mion Posts: 77
    edited 2008-08-23 11:40
    Thankyou!!
    Graham Stabler.

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