Idea for parallax product - Stamp based programmable thermostat?
jeffjohnvol
Posts: 197
I'm probably the only one here that would like to use something like this, but it would be cool if there was an integrated devlopment board with a thermistor, LCD and input buttons that out of the box would be a usable, programmable thermostat but allowed us access to the source code to change the programming.
I understand it is possible to build a rudamentary T-stat using items we can buy from the parallax store, but getting something that looks nice enough that the wife doesn't 86 it immediately is a different story. I can get push buttons and toggles out of my gadget drawer, but the wife wouldn't let me hang it on the wall, lol.
I think it would be really cool to have a platform that we could program and yet looks like a finished product. Something that would allow us to take additional inputs or drive additional outputs.
Different items that would be nice to be able to program for:
- When in vacation mode during summer, if it is set at 80 degrees (and is 80 in the house) but a cool night gets down to 70, run first stage for awhile to cool house down when the efficiency would be highest.
- Perhaps integrate with a PIR motion sensor to shut a damper if a room isn't used for 24 hours.
- If it is seen that the basement is 10-20 degrees cooler than the 2nd floor (in summer), run the fan, or a separate fan that just pushes from basement up to 2nd floor.
- Integrate with an x-bee module for remote sensing?
- Integrate with Bean's (Hitt consulting) card reader to datalog temperature trends and usage.
- Or any other thing you wish your current thermostat would do.
I·think many of us that are developers and are "thermostat nazis" (as my kids call me) this would be a really nice platform to work with.
Or maybe others here would want to make a product like that? :-)
Comments
A few years ago I built a simple Digital Thermostat to replace units in both our house and our computer shop. I posted the code a few times over the years…One of these days I will have to post it to completed projects. For now though you could derive a lot of information from it.· You can find the code at the following link.
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=601101
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Chris Savage
Parallax Tech Support
So they try to give you boards and packages that can adapt and reconfigure as your needs and desires change.
These items work together to do just what you want for a starter:
There is a wonderful tiny LCD module with 4 buttons [noparse][[/noparse]I have two] that plugs into a 20pin header on the carrier boards.
The carrier board would house your BasicStamp and a plug in for the LCD.
And there are several options of thermostat chips in Parallax's catalogue.
You can add a relay to breadboard section of the carrier board to switch appropriate control circuitry.
Some aspects of what you want to do really begin to create a home automation network. You begin to get into issues of transmitting and receiving data over distances. One board just might not be enough. So it become the question of designing a whole system.
Personally, I'd like to use the internet to control remotely. That would require using a Pink module. Local control in the home might be well served by a master and slave RS-232 network. If you don't want to pull wire, you can use modules to control devices through the housewiring. And the thermostat sensors could be in many places with a 1-wire network. It begins to be more than a mere thermostat.
In many instances, homes have attic fans that need to be turned on to circulate air during hot summers. Many attics are totally outside air, but reducing the heat build-up can save money. The basement air can circulate within the house to cut down air-conditioner load and refresh stale air.
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PLEASE CONSIDER the following:
Do you want a quickly operational black box solution or the knowledge included therein?······
Post Edited (Kramer) : 7/7/2008 5:52:25 PM GMT
Like I pointed out, I'm probably the only one that would like to program my own thermstat (with hand written software). I just thought I would pose the question to see if there were others interested as well.
Your point about the attic fan is a good one. One could tailor their own thermostat to turn on the attic fan if it is cooler outside AND the relative humidity isn't too high. If RH was high, I wouldn't want to run an attic fan during the summer. Others might, and that would be the beauty of having a platform you could write in pbasic (or spin).
A product such as I proposed would be good to integrate with a pink module. If extra boards were needed, a box could always be sunk into the drywall for extra daugher boards, etc.
I just thought I would pose the question to see if there were others interested as well.
I am interested in somthing like this·for awhile
Let me know if can help in some way
I understand it is possible to build a rudamentary T-stat using items we can buy from the parallax store, but getting something that looks nice enough that the wife doesn't 86 it immediately is a different story. I can get push buttons and toggles out of my gadget drawer, but the wife wouldn't let me hang it on the wall, lol.
This also my problem as well
The case for this project is going to the hard part
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Sam
I guess you can see why making one KIT would not be the best idea, long term.
I would rather see a project that combines what is available Ad-Hoc in small tested modules that you assemble like Lego pieces... and that's pretty much the niche that Parallax fits into in my opinion.
You might recall that I recently added the DS1620 to the Garage Parking Assistant from·the Completed projects·threads.· It was so simple to add the Thermostat that is was almost a no-brainer... including already published ready to use code that·I merged with the code that was already completed.
The real issue is deciding how you want your themostat to work.· Networked by wire, by radio, with a smart frontend or with·one-time programming, serial program update...···the list goes on...
So rather than ask for a project to be done for us... I propose that those of us interested in the topic challenge each other to come up with the best solution... and try to do one that doesn't get immediately 86'd by the spouse.· Sharing Ideas could produce better results.
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There's nothing like a new idea and a warm soldering iron.
It looks like this:
http://www.residential.carrier.com/products/controls/infinity.shtml
I did find this LCD that could work, but I don't know if a stamp can control it or not:
http://www.bgmicro.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=10816
To your point about interfacing with different systems via RS485 or sending data to linux, wouldn't a kit still allow you to do that? What I was proposing is that you could use the extra inputs/outputs to do whatever you wanted with it, provided it was something that was expandable. Put in shift registers to allow reading of multiple temperature devices etc. It would be like a development board with some basic abilities already defined.
Maybe it would be better to just have a gui (LCD, softbuttons, case etc) and then provide suggestions to devlopment of a board to fit in it.
Here are a couple of pictures of the unit I built…Since this one was only meant to control heat you can see the furnace control relay on the right side of the NX-1000. The other picture is of the display in manual mode. The unit always remembered the last temperature setting when power was lost, as well as the mode and which program it was running. The reason I stopped working on it is that I started designing a home controller that would integrate those of the Digital Thermostat as well as my BASIC Stamp powered Alarm System into one controller that could do all of that and so much more.
Imagine being able to control the electrical devices in any room in the building (including the one you’re in) from any other room (including the one you’re in). I pictured an LCD Display (touch screen) which displays a layout of the devices in the current room with different ‘tabs’ you can select to switch rooms or modes, for example, alarm system or digital thermostat. This would all be integrated with a built-in room-to-room video intercom system. Imagine being in the back room of your house (say the kitchen) and someone rings the doorbell? Is it your guests or a telemarketer? You could answer the door right from the kitchen interface and see who’s out there and if need be, buzz them in. Well, it’s a concept…But someday…
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Chris Savage
Parallax Tech Support
It might even need a propeller to do what I am even envisioning seeing as how the complexity of the user interface may require a lot of code and could exceed 2K? I am working on a simple motor controller and I'm half way through my allotted space on my 2px.
In reference to what you are trying to do with your concept, it would be nice if parallax (or someone) developed inexpensive wireless-G modules that interfaced with a stamp/prop. I know there are x-bee and other solutions for communicating, but a wireless b/g with a central router to assign an address (as well as security) would make life so much easier and would even allow for interfacing with a PC on a network.
Do they let you do that stuff when you are at the office? Man, that would be a dream job.
If I ever finish my current stamp project, I think I may try to approach this differently. It would be taking it away from the "nice pretty product idea" and get it to the approach that a simple hacker can do it, which most people on this board could do to. Maybe it will eventually lead to a t-stat, but for now, here's what I'm thinking.
In my basement where my thermostat cable goes to the unit, cut it and put my project box in between it. I'm thinking for the first stage I will use a propeller protoboard with a SIM card addition as well as some SHT15 temperature devices to track:
* inside temp/humidity
* outside temp/humidity
* system status (on/off)
* heat/cool mode
* stage? (if I can capture this, not sure I can).
This way, I can see what my current HVAC usage is on a daily basis and see where potential "opportunities" are. For example, if during the summer, the RH is low, trigger a damper to bybass the normal hot/air return and pull outside air, or as pwillard suggested, activate a whole house fan when the system calls for cool + fan.
·
This way, I can see what my current HVAC usage is on a daily basis and see where potential "opportunities" are. For example, if during the summer, the RH is low, trigger a damper to by bass the normal hot/air return and pull outside air, or as pwillard suggested, activate a whole house fan when the system calls for cool + fan.
I live in Jacksonville FL and in the summer time there are very few day that the RH is low
You do not say where you are from
One thing that you have to keep in mind is this
I am a A\C tech by trade
Here it goes
If you have a damper for out side air when the RH is low your heat gain will be less than it would be if it where high RH this is very true
How ever the air that you bring in from out side will add to you heat gain for two reasons
ONE
The air need to be cool to match what is in the house (this is heat gain)
Two
The air that is coming out of the house· (this is cooling loss)
because of the air that you are trying to put in to house ·that cool air will be lost ed unless you have to have some way to use the cooling··that the air has before·going out side use this to help cool the air that is coming
I hope you understand what·I am talking about
·I can see what my current HVAC usage is on a daily basis and see where potential "opportunities" are
* inside temp/humidity
* outside temp/humidity
* system status (on/off)
* heat/cool mode
I am thinking doing something like this
One way to this is to have a counter that runs when you are calling for cooling how get this
·You have optic sensor tie to the contactor this where you get your·signal from
What i have not·figure out is how to stop and start a DS1302 chip to keep track of the time in this way or is there another chip that·I could use to do this with
I have try this couple of time but have not got any where yet
so if you have any·
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Sam
Post Edited (sam_sam_sam) : 7/10/2008 9:10:07 PM GMT
For tracking the status, I was just going to get a timestamp each time the fan status changes or the call for heat/air changes and record a timestamp with the system status(s) inside temp, outside temp, inside RH and outside RH.
Sometimes during the spring/summer, a cool night may be in the 60's and it may be mid 70's in the house. The humidity is typically low, so pulling in the cool air from outside makes sense.
·I don't see a problem pulling in outside air with just the fan, no compressor.
I do not see any problem with doing this if these are your ·conditions this should work fine
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Sam
I am considering making a Propeller prototype board of sorts.· The board would have an LCD on it and tactile buttons or maybe some fancy capacitive touch buttons and sliders.· The board would also have regulators for 5V and 3.3V.· The board would be programmed with a Prop Plug.· The rest of the I/O could be brought to a prototyping space or maybe to headers where an add-on board could be added.
·
The board I am describing may work for your thermostat project.· The add-on board in this case could include temp sensors and interfaces to other sensors or sensor networks.· In addition it could have networking and other capabilities to attach to a computer via Ethernet or serial.
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What do you think?· How should a user interface look (button arrangement)?· Does tactile buttons work?· What do you think of capacitive sensor type buttons?· Should this PCB, LCD and UI be used in a landscape or portrait mode?
·
I attached a picture of the LCD I am considering for use in this design.· I also uploaded a video to YouTube of the LCD on a testing jig where I bought it.·· The link is here.· The LCD is 128x96 pixels and can do four different grey levels.· There is a white backlight on the LCD as well.
·
This thread on the thermostat is inspiring me to take a couple steps forward with my idea.· I think a thermostat would be an ideal use for it.
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Timothy D. Swieter, E.I.
www.brilldea.com·- Prop Blade, LED Painter, RGB LEDs, uOLED-IOC
www.sxmicro.com - a blog·exploring the SX micro
www.tdswieter.com
The LCD looks nice, but have you considered:
http://www.bgmicro.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=10816
Its only $10 and is backlit with green light.· The resolution isn't as good as the one you had, but the price may be better.· It looks really slick.· The following link is a (multipage) article that someone wrote writing to it with a PIC16f877.· He graciously provided code.
http://ghmicro.com/index.php/pic/6-pic-16f877/24-pic-16f877-agm1264f-128x64-graphic-lcd
One problem as I understand it with any graphic display is that you have to define your own fonts as this guy did in his C code.· That may be able to be done and stored on a seperate EEPROM or ROM chip.· It would be good to have normal fonts as well as some large fonts for larger displays of values (see link to thermostat I did in earlier post in this thread for an example).
For button layout, what if you had one of those 3x4 keypad such as http://www.bgmicro.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=10024·and then let people use their own silkscreen cover for it, so they could just use the buttons they wanted?· In otherwords, the 3x4 pad would be mounted, but a piece of plastic covering it would give access to only those that your customer wanted to use, and would have their own graphic on it?· Just a thought.
I'm not sure on the landscape vs portrait on the LCD.· I think portrait, but others may want landscape.· Would it be hard to have two opposing sockets where they could pluck it out and put it the other way if they wanted to?
Would it be useful to have an a/d chip built in, or at least have a daughter board that could be mounted so people could add 1302/1307 timekeepers or relays etc?
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regarding pricing and sourcing, I live in Hong Kong and Shenzhen, just across the boarder in China, is an electronic meca and I can source all sorts of great stuff at wonderful prices - even in small quantities. The LCD I bought was in single quantities pricing it cost just less than the one you recommened. I bet I could probably purchase the LCD for half of what I bought it for when buying 25 or 50 units. If this product pans out, Brilldea would most likely sell a kit of the PCB and LCD and maybe any other hard to source items. Perhaps in time we would off full assemblies. We could also offer just a stand alone LCD on our web site for those making their own designs. Living in Hong Kong has opened my mind to design what I want and to not worry as much as cost. Keep sending ideas though. If you don't like the white backlight (I like it) I can source other colors like blue or green or red.
I like you idea of the user having the option of landscape vs portrait by the way they chose to mount the LCD. I was thinking that the mounting of the LCD and combination of buttons or cap sense buttors or sliders would make the display function in either direction. In otherwords, my first thought was that there is only one way to assemble the device, but the device is functional in either landscape or portrait. Maybe this won't work. Maybe the buttons should always be the same way and the display can be mounted as desired. I am with you Jeff and I like portrait myself.
As for the code and the graphics portion, that should be no problem. The board would use the Propeller. I would create an ASM driver for the LCD that would use one COG of the Prop. The user can interface the standard graphics object from Parallax with the ASM driver to create any type of display they wanted. The graphics driver could use the internal font on the Propeller or additional fonts could be added.
I am open to ideas for other "must have" sensor or equipment to include on the board. In general I want to keep the design simple and functional and leave room for the customization through the add-on boards. I think of this product idea as a generic LCD/button/power interface with the add-on cards containing the bulk of application specific hardware.
I am eager to hear any and all ideas. Keep them coming.
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Timothy D. Swieter, E.I.
www.brilldea.com·- Prop Blade, LED Painter, RGB LEDs, uOLED-IOC
www.sxmicro.com - a blog·exploring the SX micro
www.tdswieter.com
What if you were to make your board 1-wire capable, in that it could serve two possible uses, one would be to program the board themselves and have the code and sensors right on your unit, but if they already have a system, they could communicate with your board to send data on the display, or pull back configuration data that people enter through the keys? With that, someone could write a PC interface that communicates with one or more of your units in a house, and with a single wire (and a common) get sensor and settings data, or they can push data to the display from the PC too. Or push a current timestamp so your board can know what time it is and use another cog to keep track of the time.
On your regulator, I suppose they all take 30 volts max, but if not, you may want to make sure they can take a 24 volt input. Many home thermostats (in USA at least) have 24v at the wire.
Also, battery backup on the board perhaps?
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Timothy D. Swieter, E.I.
www.brilldea.com·- Prop Blade, LED Painter, RGB LEDs, uOLED-IOC
www.sxmicro.com - a blog·exploring the SX micro
www.tdswieter.com
# 1 There need filter reminder when to change it base on hour of running for cooling and heat (If done right would also know how much of the time you unit is running in a month)
#2 Thermostat Zones names are a good idea· I·wish that there was one on the market for home use this would where you have a Thermostat in every
room in your house
#3 Adaptive mode where it Will learn how long it take to cool down you house
when you need it be cool down when you come from work ( it would nice if you can tweak as well
#4· Home, Away, Sleep, Weekend, Vacation timers
#5 Fan speed control this is a nice idea for home A\C unit
You can get· these units but they are only for 15 sheer and up
what is need is fan control for unit that are under 15 sheer you could choose
Cooling one of two speeds·High·or Med speed·base on suction line temp an RH %·level
Fan speed would Med·or Low if air handler has Three speed fan or not
Heat one of two speed base on temp on the heat strip
Heat one of two speed base on suction line temp and room temp
#6 Have a out side damper option where between Spring and Summer You could have outside air only base on side temp and RH % level
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Sam
An interesting thread - I was considering making one recenty too - our current controller is fairly limited.
Does anybody know how the boiler / pump / etc controls would work? I.e. is it just a case of several relays to switch on/off?
(UK based - if it makes a difference)
J
You can seperate the HMI (Human Machine Interface) from the
boards that do the actual work. You can put these boards in
a closed enclosure and mount it somewhere out of sight.
A simple lcd/keypad (see attached picture) would communicate via rs232
with the boards.
Preferably the firmware of the lcd/keypad should output characters
like on a phone keypad (repeatedly pressing 2 generates 2,a,b,c,A,B,C).
I have been looking for such a simple lcd/keypad but the only
ones I could find had firmware dedicated to a particular system
(mostly burglar alarms).
Anybody know of an affordable lcd/keypad that just does ascii input/output
via rs232 (key pressed -> character sent, byte received -> display character) ?
regards peter
Post Edited (Peter Verkaik) : 7/15/2008 9:58:31 AM GMT
·
A little late replying to you from way up the thread…Yes, you’re right…The home controller would definitely require a Propeller Chip (or more than one) to realize. However I think any Digital Thermostat that has the functions of standard commercial programmable units could easily be realized using a single BASIC Stamp. It’s not that difficult to implement (as I have shown) and if your code was unusually long to handle additional tasks you could use a BS2pe and split the code across 8 program slots. On top of that you’d actually be able to use the extra 8 slots for data storage to maybe plot trends of heat or A/C usage. This is where a wireless solution would come in handy for updating the schedules and getting the data from a PC somewhere in the building. Or perhaps a network interface…hmmm…
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Chris Savage
Parallax Tech Support
I have purchased several surplus Alarm Keypad/LCD Modules ranging from Radio Shack to popular brands in Alarm Systems. The interfaces mostly seem to be RS-485/RS-422, however I never did break down the protocol used since I was too lazy or didn’t have time to setup on a RS-485 or RS-422 interface just to grab the serial streams. Several of the units are able to detect that they are not connected to an alarm system and report this on their LCD. Documentation seems scarce for these units, even on the internet.
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Chris Savage
Parallax Tech Support
spiecus
The one I am going to start with is going to need to control four 2 stage H/AC units in one room.
I am also a A/C Tech by trade for many years
Are thes two stage H/AC units computer controlled If not you should be alright
You could have·one stamp controlling several units based temp in this room
If they are you may have a problem doing it
You can·Private Message me if you want to explore some way to do this
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Sam
Post Edited (sam_sam_sam) : 7/26/2008 3:12:13 AM GMT