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MOSFET and residual current — Parallax Forums

MOSFET and residual current

0001T0001T Posts: 14
edited 2008-06-08 13:09 in Learn with BlocklyProp
Hi, I need some advice.
I am making use of BS2 to control 4 mosfets (100V, 50A), which will in turn send·current (12V max, 2A max) to heat up 4 wires (DUTs).

I/Os from BS2 are wired to the gates of these mosfets, a 10k ohms resistor is wired in series between them.
Protection diodes are wired across the DUTs (wires).

The operation is cyclic in nature, i.e. 2 DUTs are heated up simultaneousy for 100 cycles.

However, it was observed that after about 15-20 cycles, there seems to be residual current even though the gates of the mosfet are opened (signal from BS2 are '0')! This was observed through some LEDS·which were dimly lighted.

What could be the cause of these 'residual current'?
It seems like these mosfets are acting somewhat like a capacitor. The wires are heated up for 3 seconds, then cooled for 3 seconds. Are these timing too short for the mosfets to discharge?
What could be wrong?

Thanks.

Comments

  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2008-06-04 15:38
    Make sure the I/O pins on the Stamp are set to output low, not input mode. If they're turned off by changing to input mode, the gates "float" rather than get turned off and you can get some "off" current through the MOSFET. If you still want to use input mode, you could connect a 100K resistor between the gate and ground and that will hold the MOSFET off when nothing is connected to the gate (like in input mode).

    What MOSFETs are you using? Are they getting hot? If they are not logic level MOSFETs, they may not be switching on fully with the logic high voltage output (roughly 5V) and thus heating up unnecessarily after a few cycles. That still doesn't explain the behavior you're seeing because a hot MOSFET should conduct less than when it's cool.
  • 0001T0001T Posts: 14
    edited 2008-06-05 00:41
    The mosfets are N-Channel 100V-0.024ohms-50A Low Gate Charge StripFET power mosfet. I am not too sure if these are logic level mosfet.
    They are not getting hot during operation.

    The mosfets worked fine during the initial 15-20 cycles, after that the LEDs will be observed to be dimly lighted.

    Thanks
  • FranklinFranklin Posts: 4,747
    edited 2008-06-05 03:05
    Could we see your code and schematic?

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    - Stephen
  • jmalaysiajmalaysia Posts: 97
    edited 2008-06-05 04:13
    I suspect induction from the heated elements to the inactive elements is causing the appearance of a problem. If possible, you might place the active and inactive elements perpendicular to each other and see if you get different results.

    If the mosfets are switching properly and not overheating then it's pretty safe to say they are logic level.

    The LEDs that glow dimly... what are they connected to?
  • 0001T0001T Posts: 14
    edited 2008-06-05 06:16
    jmalaysia said...
    I suspect induction from the heated elements to the inactive elements is causing the appearance of a problem. If possible, you might place the active and inactive elements perpendicular to each other and see if you get different results.

    sorryconfused.gif, not too sure what do u meant by inactive elements?
    jmalaysia said...

    The LEDs that glow dimly... what are they connected to?

    LEDs are connected to MOSFETs as well, paralled to the DUTs. They are meant to indicate that signal/ current is present.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2008-06-05 16:58
    Show us your code and schematic, please, including part numbers for the MOSFETs. There's got to be a clue in there somewhere.

    -Phil
  • jmalaysiajmalaysia Posts: 97
    edited 2008-06-05 18:45
    By inactive I mean the "off" pair that is not currently being heated.
  • 0001T0001T Posts: 14
    edited 2008-06-06 00:44
    Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) said...
    Show us your code and schematic, please, including part numbers for the MOSFETs. There's got to be a clue in there somewhere.

    -Phil
    here's the program used:

    'Training Program for SMA wire
    ' {$STAMP BS2}
    ' {$PBASIC 2.5}

    counter········ VAR··· Word
    Reset:
    DO WHILE IN3<1·············
    LOOP
    counter = 0················
    DEBUG "Start Training", CR
    PAUSE 3000

    Heating:
    IF IN3 = 0 THEN STOP
    DEBUG "Heating wire 1",CR
    HIGH 0·····················
    PAUSE 3000·················
    DEBUG "Cooling", CR
    LOW 0······················
    PAUSE 3000

    DEBUG "Heating wire 2",CR
    HIGH 1
    PAUSE 3000
    DEBUG "Cooling",CR
    LOW 1
    PAUSE 3000

    counter = counter + 1
    DEBUG ? counter
    IF counter < 100 THEN heating

    I'll try to load the schematic of the circuit.
    anyway, yesterday i tried troubleshooting from the bs2 side. i realised that by removing the signal connection from bs2, only two of the dimly lighted LEDs remained lighted.

    i even rewired the whole circuitshakehead.gif· but still getting the same issue.

    Post Edited (0001T) : 6/6/2008 12:53:04 AM GMT
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2008-06-06 02:09
    Along with the schematic, could you include a photo of your hardware, please?

    -Phil
  • 0001T0001T Posts: 14
    edited 2008-06-06 12:28
    read something about breakdown voltage of MOSFET....could it be the cause?

    http://www.irf.com/technical-info/appnotes/mosfet.pdf
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2008-06-07 00:02
    In your case, no. You stated that your MOSFETs are rated for 100V and that you're switching 12V. I don't see breakdown voltage being the problem.

    BTW, what's the resistance of your heater wires when they're cold?

    -Phil
  • 0001T0001T Posts: 14
    edited 2008-06-07 01:31
    Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) said...
    In your case, no. You stated that your MOSFETs are rated for 100V and that you're switching 12V. I don't see breakdown voltage being the problem.

    BTW, what's the resistance of your heater wires when they're cold?

    -Phil
    when cold...the wires are in the range of 7ohms
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2008-06-07 07:27
    Okay, no clues from that. The resistance will only increase from there as the wire heats up. Any closer with that schematic and photo? Both would help enormously.

    -Phil
  • 0001T0001T Posts: 14
    edited 2008-06-07 15:10
    Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) said...
    Along with the schematic, could you include a photo of your hardware, please?

    -Phil
    http://s259.photobucket.com/albums/hh299/0001T/?action=view&current=controlcircuit.jpg
    tried my best to draw the schematicsmhair.gif
    all the resistors are 10kohms, diodes are 3A schottky diodes, mosfets are STP40NF10
  • 0001T0001T Posts: 14
    edited 2008-06-07 15:14
    forgot to add that they were wired on a breadboard.
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2008-06-07 15:46
    The Stamp outputs pins don't go all the way to Ground when they're "0".· I think you should run the output pin into a voltage divider and take your VG from that.· The values aren't critical.·

    See attached picture.

    Post Edit -- "breadboard", hopefully not a "solderless breadboard"; it's not a good idea to pull Amps from/through such a thing.

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    Post Edited (PJ Allen) : 6/7/2008 4:11:47 PM GMT
    290 x 372 - 12K
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2008-06-07 17:15
    Is -ve in your schematic connected to the Stamp's Vss? If not, it needs to be.

    -Phil
  • 0001T0001T Posts: 14
    edited 2008-06-08 01:08
    Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) said...
    Is -ve in your schematic connected to the Stamp's Vss? If not, it needs to be.

    -Phil
    it is not connected to stamp's Vss.

    I need higher voltage (current) to wire heater, stamp's supply is not high enough which is why I have two separate supplies.·5V to stamp and·a 12V to mosfets.·
  • 0001T0001T Posts: 14
    edited 2008-06-08 01:09
    PJ Allen said...
    The Stamp outputs pins don't go all the way to Ground when they're "0".· I think you should run the output pin into a voltage divider and take your VG from that.· The values aren't critical.·

    See attached picture.

    Post Edit -- "breadboard", hopefully not a "solderless breadboard"; it's not a good idea to pull Amps from/through such a thing.
    noted. will wire up the divider
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2008-06-08 01:19
    You need to have a common (ground)·between the Stamp circuit and the FET circuit.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2008-06-08 02:10
    Again, emphatically, YES to the common ground. And might I add that this is one example where submitting a schematic with one's original post can eliminate SO much wasted time and pointless conjecturing.

    -Phil
  • 0001T0001T Posts: 14
    edited 2008-06-08 13:09
    thanks for the patience and advise.
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