Shop OBEX P1 Docs P2 Docs Learn Events
Spin Stamp Crystal: 10MHz with PLL? — Parallax Forums

Spin Stamp Crystal: 10MHz with PLL?

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
edited 2008-05-20 22:24 in Propeller 1
The Spin Stamp uses a 10MHz crystal. The docs state: "Existing code written for other Propeller development platforms must have the clock parameters changed to _xinfreq = 10_000_000 and _clkmode = xtal1 + pll8x to make it operate on a Spin Stamp."

From the Propeller datasheet: "The PLL’s internal frequency must be kept within 64 MHz to 128 MHz – this translates to an XIN
frequency range of 4 MHz to 8 MHz.
"

I assume the Spin Stamp works without a glitch, despite its oscillator being out of spec by 25%. My question, therefore, is: Is it generally considered safe to drive the PLL with a frequency above 8MHz. If so, then how high is too high? Under these conditions, is the operating temperature range more restricted?

Having looked in vain for miniature 5MHz SMD crystals, I can certainly understand the temptation to use a 10MHz crystal, which can be had in the 5 x 3.2mm form factor. But what must one beware of in doing so?

-Phil

Comments

  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2008-05-17 19:44
    It depends on temperature and supply voltage. There are graphs in the datasheet giving the maximum operating frequency vs. temperature at several supply voltages. Clearly, the 10MHz crystal works. It's what is used in the Spin Stamp and the Hydra. In both cases, the PLL multiplier is limited to PLL8X to keep the clock frequency well under 100MHz.

    If what you're looking for is a guarantee or specification, you'll have to stick with the datasheet information. The Hydra and the Spin Stamp seem to work fine with a 10MHz crystal and 80MHz clock, but have not been tested over a wide range of operating conditions. There was a Prop module attached to an FTDI USB adapter chip running off that chip's 6MHz clock output and running at 96MHz with PLL16X. I haven't heard any complaints, but that's not a specification.
  • SapiehaSapieha Posts: 2,964
    edited 2008-05-17 19:48
    Hi Phil.

    On my tests I have used 14.318 000 crystal with wry good results.

    But 15.000 000 Crystal had problem.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Nothing is impossible, there are only different degrees of difficulty.

    Sapieha
  • hippyhippy Posts: 1,981
    edited 2008-05-17 23:44
    I agree with Sapieha ( and OBC elsewhere ), 14.318MHz running okay for me with PLL8x, also 7.3728 MHz with PLL16x ( 118MHz ).

    Is it generally considered safe to drive the PLL with a frequency above 8MHz - I'd say yes, "Should generally work but not guaranteed", and also agree with Mike, this is "out of spec" as per the documentation.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2008-05-18 00:26
    At the risk of being pedantic, I should point out that PLL2X, PLL4X, and PLL8X are not native PLL multiples, but are simply other names for PLL16X/8, PLL16X/4, and PLL16X/2. In other words, with a 10MHZ crystal, any use of the PLL will result in an internal base frequency of 160MHz, before being divided down to the desired system clock frequency. This compares with a maximum base frequency of 128MHz when adhering to the datasheet. At least, that's my understanding of the clock internals.

    I'm always hesitant to go outside the specs when designing a circuit for broad use, as is the case here. That's why I was a little surprised to see Parallax take such an excursion beyond their own published constraints — not that they had much of a choice, given the space limitations on the Spin Stamp PCB. (Of course, they are in a position to select chips that meet a broader spec, if that were to be necessary.)

    Well, caveat architectus, I suppose.

    -Phil

    Post Edited (Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)) : 5/18/2008 12:36:48 AM GMT
  • hippyhippy Posts: 1,981
    edited 2008-05-18 02:29
    The PLL seems to handle just short of 240MHz and the chip a system clock speed just short of 120MHz, at least for the environment I'm in which is nothing special, standard ProtoBoard. That's +87% and +47% over datasheet spec respectively.

    Given that the PLL appears to works at 240MHz and 160MHz is considerably less than that ( +25% over spec ) I'd personally be happy with using a 10MHz crystal for anything used in a normal 'room temperature' environment including a commercial design.

    We have the official spec and the de-rating graph but it would be nice to see details of what the envelopes are for 14.318MHz and 7.3728MHz operation and the more commonly used 6MHz and 10MHz.
  • Paul BakerPaul Baker Posts: 6,351
    edited 2008-05-20 22:24
    Frequencies higher than 8 MHz can be used, but we make no gaurentee that other parameters will hold, such as the operating temperature range.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Paul Baker
    Propeller Applications Engineer

    Parallax, Inc.
Sign In or Register to comment.