Shop OBEX P1 Docs P2 Docs Learn Events
Reverse Polarity protection — Parallax Forums

Reverse Polarity protection

J^3J^3 Posts: 121
edited 2014-10-17 11:02 in BASIC Stamp
Good evening· all,
··· Does any one know a cheap and easy way of protecting against reverse polarity?· Is it as simple as putting a diode in series with the incoming circiut, and if so how do you select the diode?

Comments

  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2008-03-18 02:33
    A diode is the easiest and cheapest way to protect against reverse polarity.

    You choose a diode based on the amount of current it has to carry and the highest reverse voltage it has to withstand. For high currents or situations where power loss is important, the type of the diode may be important. Ordinary power diodes have a voltage drop across them of about 0.6V. Schottky diodes have a special construction that reduces the voltage drop to about 0.3V, but they're more expensive to make, have a little more reverse leakage, and a lower reverse voltage capability than ordinary diodes.

    A common power diode is the 1N4001-4007 series. They all can carry 1A of current continuously and have reverse voltage ratings of 50V, 100V, 200V, 400V, 600V, 800V, and 1000V respectively. RadioShack normally carries the 1N4001-4004 diodes.
  • J^3J^3 Posts: 121
    edited 2008-03-18 03:56
    Thanks Mike,· I seen an article just a minute ago about using the diodes.· The only thing is after reading the article it appears to me that I should wire the diode in parallel with the source and connect it so that the anode is on the negative side of the circiut and the cathode the positive.· If power is connected backwards the diode will conduct and blow the fast acting fuse in the circiut.· Is this correct?· If it is will the fuse blow before the cap.
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2008-03-18 04:02
    Will the fuse blow before the cap? Maybe ... it depends on how fast the fuse blows. This is one way of protecting against reverse polarity. Its advantage is that you don't have the 0.6V drop in input voltage across the diode. The disadvantage is that you have to replace the fuse before you can use the device again.

    I prefer wiring the diode in series with the input supply in the non-ground (usually positive) lead. In that case, the anode goes toward the positive input supply.
  • J^3J^3 Posts: 121
    edited 2008-03-18 04:36
    Thanks Mike, appreciate the input.· JJ
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2008-03-18 15:28
    A Bridge Rectifier can also be used for reverse polarity protection. The NX-1000 development board we used to carry used this on the DC input for this very function.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Chris Savage
    Parallax Tech Support
  • MooneyguyMooneyguy Posts: 77
    edited 2014-10-09 14:10
    Will the Basic Stamp 2 module be damaged by reversing the 9 VDC battery terminals by accident during the battery installation?
  • tdlivingstdlivings Posts: 437
    edited 2014-10-09 15:43
    A slick way of doing reverse polarity protection is with a PChan Mosfet.
    This video explains it very well
    He has a number of other tutorial videos

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrB-FPcv1Dc


  • doggiedocdoggiedoc Posts: 2,240
    edited 2014-10-09 16:17
    Mooneyguy wrote: »
    Will the Basic Stamp 2 module be damaged by reversing the 9 VDC battery terminals by accident during the battery installation?
    Hey Mooneyguy - I'll try to help. What board or setup are using for the BS-2?

    I don't know if the BS-2 can withstand reverse polarity for long. Maybe Chris Savage will reply. He knows these things.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2014-10-09 16:47
    If your reverse-polarity protection happens to come upstream from a voltage regulator, choose a regulator designed for automotive applications, such as the LM2940 series. They have reverse polarity protection built in. Just don't use a polarized cap ahead of the regulator.

    -Phil
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2014-10-09 17:01
    I agree with Phil, the LM2940 (and a few others) are good regulators with more than just reverse polarity protection, but apparently I saw your other thread first and now wonder if this one is valid?
  • doggiedocdoggiedoc Posts: 2,240
    edited 2014-10-10 04:22
    Mooneyguy wrote: »
    Will the Basic Stamp 2 module be damaged by reversing the 9 VDC battery terminals by accident during the battery installation?
    Mooneyguy, you may need to repost your question in it's own thread to get an answer.
  • Dave HeinDave Hein Posts: 6,347
    edited 2014-10-10 07:21
    Mooneyguy wrote: »
    Will the Basic Stamp 2 module be damaged by reversing the 9 VDC battery terminals by accident during the battery installation?
    I would say that the answer is almost certainly yes. The simplest way to prevent reversing 9 volt batteries is to plug in one terminal at a time. If you can't plug in the first terminal you must have it the wrong way, and since you made contact with only one of the terminals there will be no damage. I've developed an OCD attitude toward 9 volt batteries where I always plug in one terminal at a time now.

    Some devices shield the battery contacts with a piece of plastic with holes that won't allow the larger terminal to fit through. This prevents both terminals from making contact when the battery is reversed. This method is commonly used in smoke detectors.

    A series diode will also work, but you won't get as many amp-hours out of the battery as you could without the diode. Assuming the board uses a 7805 regulator you will need to replace the battery when it drops down to 7.7 volts instead of 7 volts.
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2014-10-10 08:07
    Mooneyguy wrote: »
    Will the Basic Stamp 2 module be damaged by reversing the 9 VDC battery terminals by accident during the battery installation?

    Since the BASIC Stamp 2 module does not have 9V battery terminals there must be a development board that the module is plugged into. Which board are you using? Different boards supply power to the BASIC Stamp in different ways.
  • MooneyguyMooneyguy Posts: 77
    edited 2014-10-11 20:20
    Will a NTE139A Zener Diode work between the Basic Stamp 2 Vin pin and the +9 VDC battery terminal protect the Stamp if the battery terminals were reversed by accident? Most 9 VDC battery holders don't prevent the terminals from being touched backwards momentarily. Obviously they wont snap on reversed, but they could be touched by accident if someone was careless. I have a NTE139A (ZD-9.1 V, 1W) Zener that I will put in line with +9VDC battery the Vin pin of the Basic Stamp 2 module while I try to get a clear answer to this question.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2014-10-11 20:24
    Mooneyguy,

    Have you read all of this thread? People want to know what carrier board you're using for your BS2. It will help to solve your problem if we knew!

    -Phil
  • MooneyguyMooneyguy Posts: 77
    edited 2014-10-11 22:53
    I am just using the Basic Stamp 2 Module #BS2-IC-RT with a universal solderless breadboard (just the ceramic carrier board). I am not using something like the Stamp Homework Board. I attached the picture of the set up less the serial port which I am putting back in now.

    I can't seem to get the bluetooth module to work so I think I am going back to the wired connection now. I tried hooking GND to GND, Vin to VDD, and RX and TX to Sout and Sin respectively. Before I did that I tried hooking RST to Stamp PIN 0,Rx to Stamp Pin 1, TX to Stamp Pin 2 RTS to Stamp Pin 3 and CTS to Stamp Pin 4 as it seemed to indicate in the sample software comments (not certain if they are referring to the Stamp or the RN-42 Bluetooth module pins).

    I see the device on my computer, I get a blinking green lite and when I run the sample program debug I get the solid green and blue lite and then a warning on my computer that No Stamp Can be found. I just don't get it.

    IMG_1760.jpg
    1024 x 768 - 67K
  • MooneyguyMooneyguy Posts: 77
    edited 2014-10-11 23:14
    Here is a photo of it working with the zerner inline with the 9VDC battery and the serial port. Would be nice to get rid of the zener if the board was protected and it would be cool if I could get the bluetooth to work.

    IMG_1762.jpg
    1024 x 768 - 83K
  • MooneyguyMooneyguy Posts: 77
    edited 2014-10-11 23:52
    Here is a schematic of the set up.

    Schematic.jpg
    1024 x 640 - 97K
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2014-10-12 13:56
    A zener diode is not the thing for "overvoltage protection", a rectifier diode is better suited to that task.

    If you are trying to get the Bluetooth module to run from the Stamp's 5V then forget it, its capabilities are modest.
    Likewise from a "9V" battery - No Sale.

    PE -
    I see the device on my computer, I get a blinking green lite and when I run the sample program debug I get the solid green and blue lite and then a warning on my computer that No Stamp Can be found. I just don't get it.

    Your peripherals' demands (for current) are likely forcing the Stamp into brown-out.
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2014-10-13 08:51
    Yeah, it appears you're trying to power the Bluetooth module and some other devices all from the BASIC Stamp Module on-board regulator. That would likely draw too much current and cause the regulator to keep shutting down resulting in what appears to be a non-functional BASIC Stamp Module. You're going to need a dedicated regulator capable of handling the current or you're going to need to power the board from a regulated 5V power supply.

    By the way, your schematic doesn't seem to match what's on the breadboard, unless I am missing something. I don't see the Bluetooth Module on the schematic, and you appear to have an external regulator in the schematic that I do not see on the breadboard.
  • MooneyguyMooneyguy Posts: 77
    edited 2014-10-16 09:07
    Is the Basic Stamp 2 Module protected against momentary contact of 9VDC battery installation/fit up?

    Most everyone has installed a 9VDC battery in a smoke alarm or something similar and tried fitting the battery in place and found that the two fat ends don’t mate no matter how long or hard they push the ends together, then they reverse the battery to its correct designed installation and then all is well. But in that moment of reverse polarity, the electronics are normally protected against momentary inadvertent battery installations. This protection feature would seem to be a key design feature in a learning device such as the Basic Stamp. I have seen some devices with a plastic battery carrier that will only allow the battery to go in one way so there is no chance of reverse polarity issues.

    I am using the Basic Stamp 2 Module #BS2-IC-RT with a universal solderless breadboard (just the Basic Stamp 2 carrier board). I am not using something like the Stamp Homework Board. It would seem the answer to this question is a certain yes or no based simply on the board or chip design. If it is not a certain yes answer, then I need protection.

    I currently have a Zener diode in series with the battery "+" terminal but I am not happy about the extra space required or the voltage drop with the Zener requires (with the voltage drop, the battery will have to be replaced earlier than needed as well).I have a NTE139A (ZD-9.1 V, 1W) Zener.

    Sorry about the confusion in my earlier post. Please feel free to delete my earlier (locked) post as it seems to have caused more confusion than helped.
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2014-10-17 10:21
    I have once again moved a re-post to the existing thread to avoid yet another duplicate thread. Please follow up in existing threads rather than starting new ones.

    Also I have answered your question about the reverse polarity in the following duplicate thread: http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php/157737-Reverse-Polarity-Protection-From-A-9V-Battery?p=1297804&viewfull=1#post1297804
  • Tracy AllenTracy Allen Posts: 6,662
    edited 2014-10-17 10:56
    Mooneyguy

    The original BASIC Stamp uses an LM2936 5 volt regulator, which features reverse battery protection. Here from its data sheet with that outlined in red. Note also that it's available output current is only 50mA, which relates to your other question.

    LM2936.png


    Of course, you can't apply 9V forward or reverse to other pins on the Stamp, just Vin, pin 24 on the module. With regard to PJ Allen's response above, "A zener diode is not the thing for "overvoltage protection", a rectifier diode is better suited to that task." Did you read and understand that?
    322 x 224 - 36K
  • Dave HeinDave Hein Posts: 6,347
    edited 2014-10-17 11:02
    And make sure no polarity-sensitive components are connected directly to the 9-volt input, such as electrolytic capacitors.
Sign In or Register to comment.