X10 Firecracker wiring & 220v AC X10

akalati

Greetings all,

I've found lots of information on integrating a BS2 with X10 (so excited to try to do this that I ordered an X10 kit at 3:30am last night).· It seems that the X10 path is the easiest and safest way of controlling 120v AC.· I found·the most comprehensive X10-BS2 integration data located at:

http://www.awce.com/firecracker.htm

I've got two real newbie questions... The author explains to wire the DB9 on the X10 Firecracker transmitter to the BS2 using:

4 - P0

5 - Ground

7 - P1

So 4 and 7 are obvious.· But what's ground?· I always thought of ground to be analogous to Vss, but I guess I'm wrong.· Does ground mean wiring to the screw holes on the edges of the board (but then-again, those are not attached to anything)?

Second question:· Can I use this BS2/X10 setup to control 220v AC also?· If the X10-branded devices don't do that, are there others that do (and then, how to I get them to receive commands from the BS2/firecracker transmitter combo)?

Thanks, and apologies for such ignorant questions.

Andy

allanlane5

Yes "ground" is the same as Vss on the BOE. And it's on pin 5 of the DB-9 connector.

I believe you CAN control 220 volt stuff -- but you'll need an X10 220-volt RF reciever, and x10 220-volt modules to plug your equipment into.

akalati

Thanks much, AllanLane.

Bruce Bates

akalati -

Since you are seeking to use X-10 on 220 VAC, I can only surmise that you are not in the USA. Presuming that to be the case you may be interested in the PLM-24 hardware and S.N.A.P. (scalable network and protocol) system which was developed by High Tech Horizons in Sweden.

Here is a link to the PLM-24 section of their web site:
http://www.hth.com/plm-24/

Here is a link to the S.N.A.P. protocol and system:
http://www.hth.com/snap/

This is the only complete, adaptable, 220 VAC X-10 like facility of which I'm aware. Many folks have adapted it for both home and commercial systems. I've never heard any complaints from those who have done so. Check the details to see if it will serve your needs as well.

Regards,

Bruce Bates

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"Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration."

Thomas Alva Edison

akalati

Bruce,

You are partially correct. I'm in NY, but the unit is a remote control which I'd also like to show off to my contacts overseas. I thought if I built it using X10 Firecracker, and can just get a 220v remote slave (as suggested by Allen), that would be simplest. I probably won't want to get into building parallel X10 support for 110 & 220v.

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)

Speaking of 220VAC X10 modules, I've been looking for an inline X10 receiver module for a baseboard heater (220VAC 20 or 30A 60Hz) for several years now, to no avail. If anyone knows of a U.S. source for something like this, I'd be grateful to know about it. (UK-sourced X10 products are for 50Hz only.)

Also, will 110V X10 handle 220V-only (i.e. without a neutral return) loads? The heater has a ground wire for safety, but not for current. There's no GFI, though, so a minimal ground current may be acceptable. Or would it make more sense to determine which leg the X10 signal is on and add a signal bridge between the opposite leg and neutral in the breaker box — assuming no other bridges exist?

(I don't mean to hijack the thread. If this seems too far off-topic, please say so, and I'll be happy to begin a new one.)

Thanks,
Phil

allanlane5

http://www.x10.com/products/x10_hd245.htm

This is a 220 volt, US, 20 Amp X10 module. Since US homes have two 'legs' of 110 each, and uses both 110 legs to get 220, I assume this will work with 110 volt 'sending' units.

Bruce Bates

Phil -

They sure do make them. Here's the proof:
http://www.x10.com/automation/x10_hd245.htm

It appears as though you must plug it in, and the receptacle probably needs to have a ground wire at least, if not a neutral. It's hard to tell from just the picture shown on the web page. If you were looking for a stand-alone "relay" type unit, this is not it, unless you jerry-rigged it somehow.

Regards,

Bruce Bates

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
"Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration."

Thomas Alva Edison

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)

Thanks, guys. I've seen the plug-in-style modules, but since the heater is hard-wired, those won't work in my situation without excessive kludging. What I'm after is either a pigtail (preferred) or screw-terminal hockey puck.

-Phil

akalati

Allan/Phil,

The problem that I see, though, is that I need to use the Firecracker RF receiver, which is 120v!! I looked for a 220v version, but didn't find one. So how do I get the 120v receiver to "talk nice" with a 220v X10 switch, all in a 220v country?

I was thinking to use a step up/down converter. Will that work with X10's signals? Any other solution?

Again, I am a real newbie with electrical and Parallax, so apologies if my question is ignorant.

Bruce Bates

akalati -

No, transformers won't work with X-10. They use the wire as a carrier, and that would be incomplete going through a transformer.

Sorry

Regards,

Bruce Bates

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
"Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration."

Thomas Alva Edison

akalati

So, in light of no transformers, and my concerns above, is there a solution ??

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)

I'm no X10 expert, but wouldn't a signal bridge (which I believe is just a HV cap) between the transformer's primary and secondary solve the problem?

I'd be more concerned with a disparity in line frequency, assuming that's an issue. For example, since X10 signals are synchronized to the zero-crossings, would a transmitter designed for 60Hz work in a 50Hz system?

-Phil

Bruce Bates

Phil -

We apparently have a different interpretation of how an X-10 bridge works. It was my understanding that an X-10 bridge went from leg-to-leg of a single phase 220 volt (2 hot legs) transformer such that the X-10 carrier signal would appear on both "hot" legs.

It MAY work as you said, but I've never seen it done.

I've no idea about the frequency part, except to say that the X-10 carrier "rides" atop the ordinary sine wave. It's easily seen on an o'scope. Besides, zero-crossing is zero-crossing, regardless of the frequency, isn't it?

Regards,

Bruce Bates

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
"Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration."

Thomas Alva Edison

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)

Here is some info about X10 couplers and repeaters. I think the main purpose of a bridge is to pass the 120KHz signal while blocking the 60Hz power. So it should work between sides of a transformer just as well as between the "hot" leads in center-neutral house wiring. The article mentions an issue with in-phase signals on 220V-only receivers, which addresses my heater concerns, but I don't think that would be an issue aklati's situation. The attached schematic is not tested but may be worth considering as a starting point. I have no idea if it would pass UL muster, though.

-Phil

allanlane5

Okay, there's TWO problems here, with TWO different solutions.

One is the "European 220 volt mains" problem -- for which you'll probably need European X10 equipment.

The second is the "I want to control my heater in America which runs on 220". For that one, the X10 'home' equipment maxes out at 20 amps, and requires a plug, both of which may be show-stoppers. In any event, the X10 'reciever' (Firecracker -> X10 'reciever' -> power lines -> X10 'switch') sits across one 'leg' of the AC. The 220 volt 'switch' then recieves the X10 on one 'leg' of its 220 voltage to operate.

I really don't think there's any safe, reliable way to kludge an American 110 volt 60 hz X10 into a 220 volt 50 Hz European system. For that you'll need to buy X10 European equipment.

And the usual disclaimer: Please be careful if you decide to mess around with 'mains' AC voltage, you can really hurt yourself.

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)

It looks like the sensible way to solve my heater problem will be to install a 110V X10 switch driving a 220V SSR in my breaker box and control the heater from there.

-Phil