Any plans for "Non C" support for the Activity Bot?
WBA Consulting
Posts: 2,933
In an email discussion with a friend over the weekend about a robot learning kit for their kids, I directed them to Parallax's site (duh). I suggested looking into the BOE-Bot, the Scribbler 2, and the Propeller Activity Bot as options. I was a little surprised when he responded to my email saying that he was thinking of the Scribbler 2. Not because I don't think it's a great platform, but because of his reasoning. He liked the fact that they could also venture into SPIN afterwards for more advanced projects. He said that it appeared that C was too new for the Activity bot and since "that is all you can use" it wasn't of interest. I was a little stumped, but I decided to check out the product page myself before I replied to his email.
After looking at the product page for the Propeller Activity Bot, I see where he was mis-lead. There is no indication on the Activity Bot page that the platform's core (the Propeller chip) isn't new, but rather has been around for years and has tons of support for SPIN and PASM programming. In fact, SPIN/PASM are not mentioned at all on the product page or the Learn pages for the Bot. It appears that marketing efforts are based solely on C programming? My Propeller Activity Board is destined for my daughter's BOE-Bot chassis, so I hope there will be SPIN options for me to work with her when we get there. So, for my question:
Are there any plans for SPIN based tutorials or other learning documents to be used with the Propeller Activity Bot?
After looking at the product page for the Propeller Activity Bot, I see where he was mis-lead. There is no indication on the Activity Bot page that the platform's core (the Propeller chip) isn't new, but rather has been around for years and has tons of support for SPIN and PASM programming. In fact, SPIN/PASM are not mentioned at all on the product page or the Learn pages for the Bot. It appears that marketing efforts are based solely on C programming? My Propeller Activity Board is destined for my daughter's BOE-Bot chassis, so I hope there will be SPIN options for me to work with her when we get there. So, for my question:
Are there any plans for SPIN based tutorials or other learning documents to be used with the Propeller Activity Bot?
Comments
I used to use C a lot but Spin has grown on me and I would much rather program in Spin than C now. I'd also rather teach kids to program in Spin than in C.
ActivityBot programs on Learn are aimed at the high school and university market. Our BASIC Stamp customers who've tried to move to the Propeller have returned with requests for what we are providing them today. For every one of you who has accepted Spin/ASM and appreciate the rewards of how it works with our architecture, there are a thousand others who won't look deeper when they see "a new language" regardless of it's benefits. See, you're already "here" so anything that resembled a barrier is now in your rear-view mirror. There are other additional issues with Spin in education, such as multi-platform capability supported by Parallax. I still love Spin, but we can't sell 500K ActivityBots with Spin alone.
Lean.parallax doesn't have plans for Spin curriculum right now, but you will see the ActivityBot being used with Spin [especially as we continue to develop the right amount of C resources]. You will see Spin running on ActivityBot in the Learn Projects section, but not likely in the curriculum.
Spin or C for Propeller could become a tremendous debate. But our teachers have made it clear: they want C.
But why not give the robot a try with C? Have you seen the ease of use, what's possible, and the simplicity of the programs? Complexities associated with encoders run all the time once calibrated, Ping))) can be accessed with a single line of code, SD files can be written the same way.
The S2 is still a fantastic choice for GUI programming. I'm teaching this class on Thursday evening at Parallax for teachers and it's almost booked up http://learn.parallax.com/info/s2-robot-educators-course.
Really, Parallax should be talking about the following right now in regards to the S2:
- porting the S2 GUI to an open tool that runs on Mac and Windows
- having it produce C or Spin code examples
These efforts are significant, taking a year or more. Phil and I have discussed them and he's made some attempts using the existing tools, but concluded it's not readily feasible. At this stage I'm ready to issue a $10,000 reward for an S2 GUI that runs on Mac/Win and produces C code. However, I'd need to have a full page or two of specifications written to release this bounty, and I don't have time to do that right now (nor do others).
JonnyMac, Yes, I really like scratch as well. Found out about it earlier this year when perusing the recommended resources by my daughter's homeschooling site. A Propeller port for it would be really nice and would create the cross platform solution.
I understand, but trying to learn Spin without some pointers is difficult. If you could just make a list of the more important OBEX objects as a starting point for the Activity Bot that would go a long way. When I look in the OBEX I am just overwhelmed. I already know C, I don't care to mess with C in my spare time, thus my interest in Spin. I don't think you need to replicate all the tutorials that are available with C on the Activity Bot, but just getting a minimal viable robot, that moves with a PING, in Spin would be a great starting point for many people.
Please consider just one article or post on the forum with the minimum list of objects and code needed to get people kickstarted.
Thanks
awsomeduck,
I sent a request to Parallax today in hopes of purchasing the ActivityBot wheels and encoders. I already have a couple Boe-bots and I even have a set of the fast servos. Once I have my a stand in for an ActivityBot, I'll post some links to useful objects and post some example code.
I'll start a link in the Robot forum when I have something to post and I'll send you a PM to make sure you don't miss it.
I haven't heard back from Parallax yet, but I'm pretty sure they'll be willing to sell just the wheels and encoders.
I suppose I could get started on some projects which don't use the wheels and encoders. You mention moving the Ping. I'll try to get some example code up in the next few days of using the Ping and I'm sure I'll have a figure 8 example as well.
A colleague wants to add a 20 hour robotics unit to a HS course using Python. I've done nothing in Python and very little in SPIN but I seem to recall they are similar. I thought ActivityBot / SPIN would be closest. But the instructor needs tutorials.
For my work, all the workshops and classes have been with PropC, so don't take this as a vote from me to put resources into ActivtyBot/Python.
Edit: Oops, sorry. I see this is an ancient thread.
The ActivityBot will soon be supported with a complete Blockly library and tutorials. This will make it the preferred Parallax go-to robot because it'll live in the Blockly ecosystem: S3, ActivityBot, Propeller Activity Board and the FLiP module.
At present, we live in three ecosystems: BASIC Stamp, Propeller and Arduino. All of these will be supported, but you'll see a much larger migration towards the Propeller products for education - which are tied together with Blockly.
We're going to need all of your help to make this go, too
Ken Gracey
Ken, now you got me curious, what's the FLiP module?
This page, far right image (press the >> button) https://www.parallax.com/news/2016-12-22/parallax-2017-what-weve-got-planned-new-year
It's an all-in-one USB/3.3V-5V power/Propeller module. Has lots of useful things: two LEDs on P26/27, programming LEDs, brownout LED, etc.
And the really big deal will be the price and support. We're shooting for $29 and this little system comes with complete Blockly support. It's the most product for the lowest price, that I've ever been part of at Parallax (maybe next to DEFCON badges).
Our initial build quantities are a thousand units and we're headed to production shortly.
Ken Gracey
Interesting.
If you had googled Flip Microcontroller, you would have found that name is already used for a bootload program
http://www.atmel.com/tools/flip.aspx
So you might want to adjust the name before release, to avoid confusion ?
Looks to have some complex SMPS parts - is that designed to source significant power to other modules ?
Does it use a Crystal, or an oscillator module ?