Propeller Tool not updated?

Realizing that attempting to save every watt is ridiculous (especially when I have more solar sourced power than I could use) as a result of a conversation on another forum. As a result I am in the process of setting up an x86 with Win32 among its operating systems.

As the only worthwhile Spin/PASM IDE I have yet found for the Propeller is the Propeller tool I am downloading it. Though I am surprised to see that it has neither been updated, nor opened. I would have expected at least some small updates to this great x86/IA32 Win32/NT assembly language application, though none to be seen.

Is there any plan to implement an open source IDE that is at least as usable as the propeller tool for Spin/PASM? Or are we going to see the Propeller Tool be lost to time, when everyone starts using features unique to other IDE's/Compilers (like preprocessors).
PASM The simplest programming language for the propeller.
Low Power for everything, max average whole house draw for a day is 2.4KW/hour total:
That is 400 watts per hour to produce for the 6 good power hours (minimum in late December/early January) from solar, now how to use less.
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  • Of course I guess that means I could install Windows 98SE on one partition and use that for Propeller related stuff (and not install any NIC driver) :) . At least then I could use the propeller tool under the nearest thing to a stable version of Windows since Windows 2.01.
    PASM The simplest programming language for the propeller.
    Low Power for everything, max average whole house draw for a day is 2.4KW/hour total:
    That is 400 watts per hour to produce for the 6 good power hours (minimum in late December/early January) from solar, now how to use less.
  • You're looking for PropellerIDE, right here. Great little tool made by forum user Brett Weir.
    David
    PropWare: C++ HAL (Hardware Abstraction Layer) for PropGCC; Robust build system using CMake; Integrated Simple Library, libpropeller, and libPropelleruino (Arduino port); Instructions for Eclipse and JetBrain's CLion; Example projects; Doxygen documentation
  • davidsaundersdavidsaunders Posts: 1,556
    edited March 7 Vote Up0Vote Down
    DavidZemon wrote: »
    You're looking for PropellerIDE, right here. Great little tool made by forum user Brett Weir.

    Definitely NOT. I am looking for the Propeller Tool or something equally usable, not something less usable (for me).
    PASM The simplest programming language for the propeller.
    Low Power for everything, max average whole house draw for a day is 2.4KW/hour total:
    That is 400 watts per hour to produce for the 6 good power hours (minimum in late December/early January) from solar, now how to use less.
  • Well that's a bit harsh don't you think?
    Care to elaborate in a constructive manner what issues you're having with it? There are many users on the forum that are quite happy with that product.
    David
    PropWare: C++ HAL (Hardware Abstraction Layer) for PropGCC; Robust build system using CMake; Integrated Simple Library, libpropeller, and libPropelleruino (Arduino port); Instructions for Eclipse and JetBrain's CLion; Example projects; Doxygen documentation
  • I just downloaded and installed PropellerIDE. Pretty slick. Not sure what your objection to it is. What feature does it lack?

    I use the Propeller Tool on Windows 10 with only one little bug. Permissions in the "library" folder are all messed up, unless you run as administrator or "fix" the NTFS permissions.
    Feel the need for speed between your PC's com port and Prop?
    Try the FTDI 245 and the FullDuplexParallel Object.

    Check out my spin driver for the Parallax "96 x 64 Color OLED Display Module" Product ID: 28087
  • Why does the Prop Tool need any update? It works does it not? It does here on a WIn 10 machine.

    What has any of this to do with saving power?
  • Using an x86 has to do with not worrying about saving power.

    I was just surprised that the Propeller tool had not been updated, no need of it, it is written in assembly if I remember what Chip said about it correctly, and thus will never be portable across CPU's.

    I just figured that by now there would have been an update, if for no other reason than to make new users of the Propeller feel a little more comfortable (as I would not curse them with the likes of the more "advanced" propeller IDEs).
    PASM The simplest programming language for the propeller.
    Low Power for everything, max average whole house draw for a day is 2.4KW/hour total:
    That is 400 watts per hour to produce for the 6 good power hours (minimum in late December/early January) from solar, now how to use less.
  • davidsaundersdavidsaunders Posts: 1,556
    edited March 7 Vote Up0Vote Down
    DavidZemon wrote: »
    Well that's a bit harsh don't you think?
    Care to elaborate in a constructive manner what issues you're having with it? There are many users on the forum that are quite happy with that product.

    No issues, it is fighter jet where I need only a pellet rifle. It makes no since to use an F14 tomcat to hunt sparrow when you need only a pellet gun.

    I do not need a more generalized language IDE to do the basics, nor do I need something that tries to copy the newer IDE paradigm that I feel is poorly thought out, though unfortunately what is now taught.

    PASM The simplest programming language for the propeller.
    Low Power for everything, max average whole house draw for a day is 2.4KW/hour total:
    That is 400 watts per hour to produce for the 6 good power hours (minimum in late December/early January) from solar, now how to use less.
  • yetiyeti Posts: 330
    edited March 7 Vote Up0Vote Down
    No issues, it is fighter jet a tank where I need only a pellet rifle. It makes no since to use an F14 tomcat to hunt sparrow when you need only a pellet gun.
    That reads like: I only need OpenSpin/FastSpin, my favourite $EDITOR and a nice script or Makefile...

    Edit: Ok... and a propeller-loader... but they are not Unobtainium...
    Windows.
    No Source – No Go!
    Please help: http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Category:Spin
    Why Asimov's Laws of Robotics Don't Work - Computerphile
    DNA is a four letter word.
  • ke4pjw wrote: »
    I just downloaded and installed PropellerIDE. Pretty slick. Not sure what your objection to it is. What feature does it lack?

    I use the Propeller Tool on Windows 10 with only one little bug. Permissions in the "library" folder are all messed up, unless you run as administrator or "fix" the NTFS permissions.

    What feature does it LACK?

    It is the bloat of extra unneeded features that I do not like.

    Do you use a D9 CAT to dig up your onions from the garden, or a spade? A D9 CAT will do the job, though it has a lot you do not need, and is a bit wastefull of doing it.
    PASM The simplest programming language for the propeller.
    Low Power for everything, max average whole house draw for a day is 2.4KW/hour total:
    That is 400 watts per hour to produce for the 6 good power hours (minimum in late December/early January) from solar, now how to use less.
  • What has anything to do with saving power got to do with the tools for the Propeller?

    Apart from the fact that the prop Tool is x86 only and those machines happen to be a bit more power hungry than some others.

    I suggest using OpenSpin and Vim. Lean mean and fast. Also updated with some new language features.
  • Heater. wrote: »
    What has anything to do with saving power got to do with the tools for the Propeller?

    Apart from the fact that the prop Tool is x86 only and those machines happen to be a bit more power hungry than some others.

    I suggest using OpenSpin and Vim. Lean mean and fast. Also updated with some new language features.
    Read the top post. As I said I realized that not using an x86 to do things just to save a little power when I have the extra does not make any good sense. And I like the Propeller Tool, which is x86, as well as a number of other tools that are written in x86 assembly. That was just part of introducing the subject, nothing to nag on.

    As to the suggestion of OpenSpin and Vim that is fairly close to what I was doing on Raspbian on the Raspberry Pi. Though I have always liked the Propeller Tool.

    The propeller tool is small enough for the needs at hand (especially when you look at the fact that most of the package is Propeller Objects and documentation). And it has nice color coding for the sections of code, and makes commenting in the Propeller font easy (even getting a version of the propeller font to work with ARM Linux is a hassle, then still missing characters).

    Remember I am the person that does not like XFCE because it is to big for what I need. I am also the person that complains that Windows 7 takes up nearly 400MB of disk space once everything that can be stripped and is not needed is removed. And on the x86 I also complain the the Linux I use takes nearly 20MB of disk space with just the GNU tools, X, TWM, and a few basic X applications. For that matter I complain that FreeDOS 1.2 takes up nearly 8MB of disk space with everything I need (including DPMI, packet driver, modern Web Browser, a couple compilers, some games, and the utilities I use).
    PASM The simplest programming language for the propeller.
    Low Power for everything, max average whole house draw for a day is 2.4KW/hour total:
    That is 400 watts per hour to produce for the 6 good power hours (minimum in late December/early January) from solar, now how to use less.
  • Remember I am the person that does not like XFCE because it is to big for what I need. I am also the person that complains that Windows 7 takes up nearly 400MB of disk space once everything that can be stripped and is not needed is removed. And on the x86 I also complain the the Linux I use takes nearly 20MB of disk space with just the GNU tools, X, TWM, and a few basic X applications. For that matter I complain that FreeDOS 1.2 takes up nearly 8MB of disk space with everything I need (including DPMI, packet driver, modern Web Browser, a couple compilers, some games, and the utilities I use).

    Sounds to me like you're the person that complains a lot ;)
    David
    PropWare: C++ HAL (Hardware Abstraction Layer) for PropGCC; Robust build system using CMake; Integrated Simple Library, libpropeller, and libPropelleruino (Arduino port); Instructions for Eclipse and JetBrain's CLion; Example projects; Doxygen documentation
  • I hope davidsaunders doesn't mind a bit of wandering off topic (sort of). I have a question about PropellerIDE and I was hoping to hitchhike on (as opposed to hijack) this thread to ask it.

    Does PropellerIDE support the different color blocks like the Propeller Tool uses?

    I tried PropellerIDE a while ago but I found I was so used to seeing the colors used by the Propeller Tool that I had a hard time thinking correctly when using the unfamiliar IDE of PropellerIDE.
    It is the bloat of extra unneeded features that I do not like.

    One thing I hear PropellerIDE has which the Propeller Tool doesn't is the ability to use as many constants as one may desire.

    I'm guessing this isn't a problem for you but it's something to keep in mind in case you end up with a large program in the future.

    Another advantage PropellerIDE has over the Propeller Tool is the way it uses memory. localroger mentioned the Propeller Tool has a problem with duplicate objects but BST doesn't have this issue. I'm not sure, but I seem to recall reading PropellerIDE also doesn't have a problem with duplicate objects.

    These features were enough for me to try using PropellerIDE but I found I missed the colors of the Propeller Tool too much to continue using PropellerIDE. And yes, I think this is a silly reason for not using PropellerIDE but my brain was insistent I keep using the Propeller tool. Sometimes I think my brain has a mind of its own.
  • Hmm...So I downloaded a fresh PropellerIDE to this Win 10 machine.

    Turns out it is unusable.

    No coloured PUB, DAT etc areas. Only black edit and search panels

    No Syntax highlighting.

    Hardly visible font colour.

    Compilation errors give no line numbers.

    Menus, tabs etc scaled horribly. I might try and get a postable screen shot later.

    For some reason after a couple of edit/compile cycles of a simple Spin file I had a dozen tabs with various versions of the code in.
  • 1. I know. I have been a Linux only guy since about 1998. Since then I have had to use Windows occasionally for various software projects and it has always been a nightmare. However the boss insisted I get a Win machine so that things like Skype and Webex worked. I set myself the challenge to live with Win 10 for a while. So that I know what I'm talking about next time I find myself slagging off Windows :)

    2. See other points.

    3/4/5. Excellent. Thanks.

    6. So they are. Thanks. Takes some dicking around with the far too small text box that pops up with text crammed into it.

    7. Scaling is a problem on a Surface Pro which has a massively high resolution display. To be fair very many other Windows programs have a problem with this.

    8. No idea.
  • CoderKid wrote: »
    1. Nothing ever works on Windows or Apple machines.
    ...
    8. Windows issue.

    And yet there are millions of applications that run perfectly well on Windows. Blaming the OS because it's not 'free' or because you can't tweak it does not detract from the fact that it is possible to write Windows applications that run reliably on all versions.
  • I wish parallax would fix the bug in propeller tool that prevents >2k programs from being uploaded through non FT232 UARTs.
    Propeller ASC- Use your Arduino shields with the Propeller.
    Propeller DNA- A Propeller Platform compatible proto board.
  • Brian,

    And yet...of all the applications I run on my Surface Pro 4 the ones that work best are designed to be cross-platform:

    Chrome,
    Firefox,
    QtCreator,
    Visual Studio Code (Based on Electron)
    Gimp,
    etc.

    I have exactly two Windows only applications I need to use from time to time. They both display terribly on the Surface screen.

    Even if one does not "blame" the OS for not being "free" or tweakable does not help the fact that those millions of Windows Applications are not portable.

    My arguments against using Windows are not really based on "free" or "tweakable" alternatives or any particular technical or usability shorty comings. It's just that I think it's nuts fro the worlds computing systems to be dependent on a single supplier in what is for most a foreign country.

    I never understand why people are so quick to jump to the defence of MS and the Windows world. I think MS is grown up enough to defend itself.

  • Sorry to say I have had trouble with PropellerIDE in Linux. It seems that a spin document that contains unicode characters corrupts the whole document.
    And clicking on another spin document in explorer opens another instance of PropellerIDE along with a copy of what I was originally working with. And then neither copy of PropellerIDE will communicate with the Propeller.
  • Yeah, Unicode is a curse.

    But what do you mean "Unicode". Have you accidentally thrown some UTF-8 in there or some such?

    I don't think PropellerIDE ever got much testing on Linux.

  • CoderKid wrote: »
    1. Nothing ever works on Windows or Apple machines.
    ...
    8. Windows issue.

    And yet there are millions of applications that run perfectly well on Windows. Blaming the OS because it's not 'free' or because you can't tweak it does not detract from the fact that it is possible to write Windows applications that run reliably on all versions.

    There is more to it than that. There are very real issues with Windows, do to the way it is done. Win32 which evolved from a combination of Win16 and OS/2 (OS/2 was much better, even while M$ was still involved), has evolved in ways that often cause problems with Windows programs, it is the way it is. No blame here, it is just how things are.

    I use ReactOS as much as possible for running Win32 applications, even though for now I have to run it in a virtual machine like VirtualBox because it chokes on my USB on all of my x86 computers (except one that does not have USB). Though ReactOS is still alpha, and it is a very usable replacement for Win32. Think about the fact that so long as it does not have any issues with your Hardware ReactOS in its early alpha state is more stable than M$ WinNT/32 implementations, and runs more software correctly, that should say something.

    No blame on any here, it is just the way things evolved in Win32 land.
    PASM The simplest programming language for the propeller.
    Low Power for everything, max average whole house draw for a day is 2.4KW/hour total:
    That is 400 watts per hour to produce for the 6 good power hours (minimum in late December/early January) from solar, now how to use less.
  • Heater. wrote: »
    Brian,

    And yet...of all the applications I run on my Surface Pro 4 the ones that work best are designed to be cross-platform:

    Chrome,
    Firefox,
    QtCreator,
    Visual Studio Code (Based on Electron)
    Gimp,
    etc.

    I have exactly two Windows only applications I need to use from time to time. They both display terribly on the Surface screen.

    Even if one does not "blame" the OS for not being "free" or tweakable does not help the fact that those millions of Windows Applications are not portable.

    My arguments against using Windows are not really based on "free" or "tweakable" alternatives or any particular technical or usability shorty comings. It's just that I think it's nuts fro the worlds computing systems to be dependent on a single supplier in what is for most a foreign country.

    I never understand why people are so quick to jump to the defence of MS and the Windows world. I think MS is grown up enough to defend itself.

    While I do not like Windows either, I can say that we are no longer reliant on one supplier for an OS to run Win32 software and drivers natively. Now there is ReactOS, which while still early alpha runs more Win32 software correctly than M$ Windows does.
    PASM The simplest programming language for the propeller.
    Low Power for everything, max average whole house draw for a day is 2.4KW/hour total:
    That is 400 watts per hour to produce for the 6 good power hours (minimum in late December/early January) from solar, now how to use less.
  • ke4pjwke4pjw Posts: 205
    edited March 7 Vote Up0Vote Down
    Ah, twm. Back in my day we would type something like<CODE>display 1b 20 02 1 4 0a 28 0a 01 00 00 >/w7</CODE> when we wanted to open a new window. OS-9 now that was as anti-bloat as you can get for a multi-user, multi-tasking OS with a Windowing interface.
    Heater. wrote: »
    Hmm...So I downloaded a fresh PropellerIDE to this Win 10 machine.

    Turns out it is unusable.

    No coloured PUB, DAT etc areas. Only black edit and search panels

    No Syntax highlighting.

    Hardly visible font colour.

    Compilation errors give no line numbers.

    Menus, tabs etc scaled horribly. I might try and get a postable screen shot later.

    For some reason after a couple of edit/compile cycles of a simple Spin file I had a dozen tabs with various versions of the code in.

    Weird. Worked fine on my SurfacePro with Windows 10.
    Feel the need for speed between your PC's com port and Prop?
    Try the FTDI 245 and the FullDuplexParallel Object.

    Check out my spin driver for the Parallax "96 x 64 Color OLED Display Module" Product ID: 28087
  • It can take some juggling with screen scaling settings.

    Problem is scaling becomes a lottery as I plug and unplug my big Samsung monitor. Things come up differently every time!

  • Heater. wrote: »
    It can take some juggling with screen scaling settings.

    Problem is scaling becomes a lottery as I plug and unplug my big Samsung monitor. Things come up differently every time!

    While I am not familiar with this "Surface Pro" that you speak of, I assume by context it is some kind of laptop.

    As such would not it make better sense to just use a desktop computer, and reasonable monitor?
    PASM The simplest programming language for the propeller.
    Low Power for everything, max average whole house draw for a day is 2.4KW/hour total:
    That is 400 watts per hour to produce for the 6 good power hours (minimum in late December/early January) from solar, now how to use less.
  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 8,817
    edited March 7 Vote Up0Vote Down
    No

    Need a smiley on that. :D
    Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball! @opengeekorg ---> Be Excellent To One Another SKYPE = acuity_doug
    Parallax colors simplified: http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?123709-Commented-Graphics_Demo.spin<br>
  • The Surface Pro is not a laptop. I hate laptops.

    The Surface Pro is more like a tablet. It weighs almost nothing and it goes with me everywhere. A traditional laptop could never do that.

    But it's actually a full up x86 machine that runs Win 10 out of the box.

    It's faster than any old PC I have in the house. Or office for that matter.

    At home the Surface is connected to my big Samsung monitor and I commune with it via a good old "clunketty clunk" keyboard and mouse.

    It is basically, the best computer I ever owned.

    Only problem is the Win 10 weirdness.

    But as it turns out MS has been going out of their way to provide the open source VS Code IDE, the Linux run time for Windows etc...

    Sometimes I forget this is not my old Linux running PC !

    Check this everybody: Heater is commending an MS product!

    How weird can life get?





  • It's really easy to write WIN32 applications that don't handle system wide display scaling well (aka adjusting the DPI settings in the Display control panel). It takes some extra work to do it correctly. Using absolute sizes and offsets, doing "owner draw" things without accounting for it, etc.

    That extra work is why a lot of Windows applications have font sizing or layout issues when scaling isn't at 100%.

  • yetiyeti Posts: 330
    edited March 7 Vote Up0Vote Down
    Heater. wrote: »
    Check this everybody: Heater is commending an MS product!

    How weird can life get?




    Aaaah!
    Windows...
    ...that may explain the vast amounts of empty lines trailing your posts now... :-Þ

    Edit: Or do you hide code in "whitespace" in those trailing lines?
    Windows.
    No Source – No Go!
    Please help: http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Category:Spin
    Why Asimov's Laws of Robotics Don't Work - Computerphile
    DNA is a four letter word.
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