New P2 Silicon

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  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 11,900
    edited 2019-10-07 - 19:02:40
    jmg wrote: »
    evanh wrote: »
    ..
    SINC2 Filtering Mode (%01) and SINC3 Filtering Mode (%10) are working.
    Sounds good, what bandwidth / settling time do you see, post filter ?
    I see ADI have a new ADUM7703. that has much higher dV/dT isolation, much lower drift and I think less degrade on the 8-pin version.
    That claims ~ 14bits and lower Icc.
    evanh wrote: »
    I just assumed the two SINC2 modes would provide same numerical gains. The testing program wasn't geared up for such small data values.

    Maybe those modes need more distinct names ? would SINC2-8 and SINC2-16 help ?

    Maybe "Sample", SINC2, and SINC3?

    Wait, I see what you are getting at. Those would be good.
  • evanhevanh Posts: 8,261
    edited 2019-10-08 - 02:56:15
    jmg wrote: »
    I see ADI have a new ADUM7703. that has much higher dV/dT isolation, much lower drift and I think less degrade on the 8-pin version.
    That claims ~ 14bits and lower Icc.
    I've had that AD7400 eval board sitting around for maybe a decade now. It's old.

    Ha, I notice the TI and AD parts are both pin and voltage compatible, although the TI 8-pin parts don't have any LDO variant.
    We have the vastness of the internet and yet billions of people decided to spend most of their time within a horribly designed, fake-news emporium of a website that sucks every possible piece of personal information out of you so it can sell it to others. And they see nothing wrong with that.
  • cgracey wrote: »
    Wait, I see what you are getting at. Those would be good.
    Ideally, some educational functional description would be useful. That would inherently show the difference between the three SINC modes.

    There is plenty for a budding young engineer to learn from those there circuits. Not the least of which would be demonstrating a powerful application of engineered mathematics.
    We have the vastness of the internet and yet billions of people decided to spend most of their time within a horribly designed, fake-news emporium of a website that sucks every possible piece of personal information out of you so it can sell it to others. And they see nothing wrong with that.
  • kamilionkamilion Posts: 8
    edited 2019-10-13 - 04:49:37
    Ken Gracey wrote: »
    potatohead wrote: »
    Ken, Working on a start up with a friend has taken me away from this stuff a little more than I would like.

    I fired up my rev a board to have a play.

    Here are some perspective for you all:

    When we compare this to the 1st propeller, and what was available for that chip, we have a plethora of tools and documentation.

    You want my advice Ken? Sell it unabashedly. There's more than enough here to get going with.

    Everyone involved worked really hard for over a decade. This is a super good product and. Promote it and the community work that's going on right now. If you ask me, this is one hell of a scene to get involved with. A lot of good things are going to happen.

    This is what we want to do, too. We need some help internally figuring out how to set up the tools so we can offer some level of support. I don't know where to find Eric's tools and how to set them up. We need to locate, inventory and start using the available tools. We will put up pages for these tools on p2.parallax.com. I need some links to get started. If I can't do it, we're going to be stuck telling others what to do.

    Ken Gracey

    My suggestion? Set up a github.io page for parallax/p2-awesome, forward p2.parallax.com to it, and let the community handle listing and sorting all the links for you with pull requests.
    Google around for all of the other <project>-awesome repositories out there, you could have the site up, fully functional, in less than a week of manhours.

    Seairth wrote: »
    Ken, hopefully you will not be selling the v2 eval board at a loss! If you are doing that (or just breaking even), I'd be willing to pay a premium for a version with the Gracey Brothers' signature on the bottom! I expect those boards to be collector's items, one day!

    Define 'premium'. $100 for a signed, limited edition, P2 board? I'm up for that.
    cheezus wrote: »
    Seairth wrote: »
    Ken, hopefully you will not be selling the v2 eval board at a loss! If you are doing that (or just breaking even), I'd be willing to pay a premium for a version with the Gracey Brothers' signature on the bottom! I expect those boards to be collector's items, one day!

    YES! And I'd be more than happy to pay well over $100 for a signed, numbered le board. I've been meaning to get the accessory kit but ended up dropping a bunch of money on my boe-bot upgrade. Still coding but it sure is cute now.


    Count me in on that. I'd pay $200 for a P2-ES "Tapeout Celebration" signed PCB, over the normal $149 price.

    It's perfectly fine to charge a higher cost for preproduction/evaluation parts *as long as you're up front with us* about why it's cost is higher.

    Just offer a secondary SKU with a higher price and ye olde red font "This SKU helps us cover our R&D costs, and is priced at a higher cost than production orders." and let those of us willing to support you with extra dollars, pay you what we feel you deserve above and beyond what you ask for the BoM. Trust works both ways; and parallax has a history of conserving it.
  • msrobotsmsrobots Posts: 2,967
    edited 2019-10-13 - 06:11:50
    @kamilion;

    welcome to the Forum and well spoken, I agree with all what you said. Parallax NEEDS to get some centralized place to get the tools.

    Currently it is @DavidZemon's CI server at https://ci.zemon.name/?guest=1.

    Mike
    I am just another Code Monkey.
    A determined coder can write COBOL programs in any language. -- Author unknown.
    Press any key to continue, any other key to quit

    The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this post are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119.
  • I've finished the streamer documentation update for the new silicon:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gn6oaT5Ib7CytvlZHacmrSbVBJsD9t_-kmvjd7nUR6o/edit?usp=sharing

    I need to cover HDMI next.
  • cgracey wrote: »
    I've finished the streamer documentation update for the new silicon:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gn6oaT5Ib7CytvlZHacmrSbVBJsD9t_-kmvjd7nUR6o/edit?usp=sharing

    I need to cover HDMI next.

    Thanks Chip!

    Melbourne, Australia
  • rosco_pcrosco_pc Posts: 352
    edited 2019-10-15 - 05:45:52
    kamilion wrote: »

    My suggestion? Set up a github.io page for parallax/p2-awesome, forward p2.parallax.com to it, and let the community handle listing and sorting all the links for you with pull requests.
    Google around for all of the other <project>-awesome repositories out there, you could have the site up, fully functional, in less than a week of manhours.

    https://propeller.parallax.com
    Stockholm, Sweden
    I am only an egg -- Stranger in a Strange land, Robert A. Heinlein
  • HDMI is now documented.
  • When will this part be available in the parallax store? Bare or otherwise.
    Ordnung ist das halbe Leben
    I gave up on that half long ago.........
  • When will this part be available in the parallax store? Bare or otherwise.

    Within two weeks we should have new P2 Eval boards ready to sell.
  • cgracey wrote: »
    Within two weeks we should have new P2 Eval boards ready to sell.

    (-waves debit card furiously!!!-)

  • Any possibility of chip I mean unmounted part only?
    Ordnung ist das halbe Leben
    I gave up on that half long ago.........
  • rosco_pc wrote: »
    kamilion wrote: »

    My suggestion? Set up a github.io page for parallax/p2-awesome, forward p2.parallax.com to it, and let the community handle listing and sorting all the links for you with pull requests.
    Google around for all of the other <project>-awesome repositories out there, you could have the site up, fully functional, in less than a week of manhours.

    https://propeller.parallax.com

    Ah, I see. I was under the impression it was to go up on the p2 hostname; as Chip said.

    Bookmarked!
  • cgracey wrote: »
    When will this part be available in the parallax store? Bare or otherwise.

    Within two weeks we should have new P2 Eval boards ready to sell.
    That is great news, Chip!

    Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço
  • Ken Gracey wrote: »
    cgracey wrote: »
    David Betz wrote: »
    Chip: Any update on getting more P2 chips packaged and eval boards made?

    Yes, we are supposed to receive at least 1,000 chips on October 18th. We are scheduled to make 192 P2 Eval boards then.

    About these P2 chips. What is the price expectation our customers have for low quantities of P2 engineering sample chips?

    $5, 10, 15, 20 each?

    Ken Gracey

    Hi,
    it was asked here, what a market price could be. Being courious myself, what a possible market price could be, I did some modelling with a linear price model for controller boards. Price is as offered today in Germany in Euro. For the boards which need a n SD-card, I calculated 10 Euro for a 8GB card, which is already too much today.
    I took into acount the following factors:
    Factor Mhz*Cores 1,60971E-09
    Factor Ram per kB 1,64225E-05
    Factor Flash per kB 6,89776E-07
    Factor GPIO 0,550776574
    Factor WLAN 0,991534469

    It is interesting, that the number GPIOs leads to a high price, while WLAN seems not to be very valuable. Of course this is a rather simple model. 32bit/64bit, Floating Point Math, USB3.0, GPU, ADC, Ethernet, Bluetooth.... are not taken into account. All these competitors have solid software available. Of course there are more competitors with high prices. Beaglebone Black is too expensive and therefore is not in the base of the price model.

    This leads to a market price of 37,50 Euro for a board with P2 including a SD card with 8GB with 58 GPIOs available, 8 cores running with 180GHz. For the raspis I took 10 Euro for the SD-card, so its 27,50 Euro for the board without SD card. - I have now seen, that the actual prices for SD-Cards are lower, so this would be a bigger SD-card than 8GB.

    This is the price-region, that sounds realistic to me for people who need this many GPIOs.
    Regards Christof


    Price%20P2.JPG


    1048 x 605 - 57K
  • Expect to pay at least double for a low turnover product. It's like comparing the PC to the Mac. Apple just doesn't do the same numbers with the Mac. Even the iPhone numbers will be dwarfed in comparison to the cheaper high turnover products.
    We have the vastness of the internet and yet billions of people decided to spend most of their time within a horribly designed, fake-news emporium of a website that sucks every possible piece of personal information out of you so it can sell it to others. And they see nothing wrong with that.
  • But will I be able to order just the chip itself? If not in this next run, any idea of when?

    Thx
    Ordnung ist das halbe Leben
    I gave up on that half long ago.........
  • Frank,
    You missed the memo. Yes there will be chips available for those of us who want to build our own boards :)
    My Prop boards: P8XBlade2 , RamBlade , CpuBlade , TriBlade
    P1 Prop OS (also see Sphinx, PropDos, PropCmd, Spinix)
    Website: www.clusos.com
    P1: Tools (Index) , Emulators (Index) , ZiCog (Z80)
    P2: Tools & Code , Tricks & Traps
  • @Cluso99,

    Yeah, guess so. But thanks. Looking forward to getting one in hand.
    Ordnung ist das halbe Leben
    I gave up on that half long ago.........
  • I've been away on vacation for the past several weeks. Did the new packaged P2 chips arrive on Oct 18 as planned?
  • Nothing mentioned lately. Chip has been reasonably quiet but has updated the docs.
    We have the vastness of the internet and yet billions of people decided to spend most of their time within a horribly designed, fake-news emporium of a website that sucks every possible piece of personal information out of you so it can sell it to others. And they see nothing wrong with that.
  • I think they were waiting for you to get back, David.
  • ElectrodudeElectrodude Posts: 1,291
    edited 2019-10-21 - 14:25:48
    David Betz wrote: »
    I've been away on vacation for the past several weeks. Did the new packaged P2 chips arrive on Oct 18 as planned?

    Last Wednesday (10/16), Chip added this entry to the Design Status table in the Propeller 2 Documentation google doc:
    cgracey wrote:
    We will be receiving about 1,000 new-silicon P2 chips on 10/22.

    Our plan is to build 193 more P2 Eval boards and supply small quantities of P2 chips to interested customers.
  • David Betz wrote: »
    I've been away on vacation for the past several weeks. Did the new packaged P2 chips arrive on Oct 18 as planned?

    Last Wednesday (10/16), Chip added this entry to the Design Status table in the Propeller 2 Documentation google doc:
    cgracey wrote:
    We will be receiving about 1,000 new-silicon P2 chips on 10/22.

    Our plan is to build 193 more P2 Eval boards and supply small quantities of P2 chips to interested customers.
    193? That seems like an strange number. Why not something even like 200? Anyway, I'll certainly buy one.
  • 7 were built already, for setup, testing and tuning!
  • I figured I'd get the P2-ES Eval Board Accessory Set (64006-ES) ahead of time so when the P2-ES boards hit I'd have the bits needed to play with it. But during checkout I noticed there are only 40 of these left in stock. @VonSzarvas @Ken Gracey are more of these on the way to ship concurrently with the new P2-Eval boards?
  • JRoark wrote: »
    I figured I'd get the P2-ES Eval Board Accessory Set (64006-ES) ahead of time so when the P2-ES boards hit I'd have the bits needed to play with it. But during checkout I noticed there are only 40 of these left in stock. @VonSzarvas @Ken Gracey are more of these on the way to ship concurrently with the new P2-Eval boards?

    We will build more sets of these kits, but they'll happen AFTER the next round of P2 Evaluation Boards are built. I'd suggest you place your order for one of the 40 sets now to guarantee that you have them (when you want them) and don't need to wait for the next manufacturing run (likely early November).

    Ken Gracey
  • David Betz wrote: »
    David Betz wrote: »
    I've been away on vacation for the past several weeks. Did the new packaged P2 chips arrive on Oct 18 as planned?

    Last Wednesday (10/16), Chip added this entry to the Design Status table in the Propeller 2 Documentation google doc:
    cgracey wrote:
    We will be receiving about 1,000 new-silicon P2 chips on 10/22.

    Our plan is to build 193 more P2 Eval boards and supply small quantities of P2 chips to interested customers.
    193? That seems like an strange number. Why not something even like 200? Anyway, I'll certainly buy one.

    191. That's how many bare PCBs we have in stock. Something has to determine the build quantity, either a part supply, human, or demand. This seems like a good number because many of the ES chips will be bought by people who are also planning products or boards of their own design.

    Ken Gracey
  • Ken, I misread you post and was scrambling and scouring the Parallax Store for the Rev.B Eval board, LOL! I will just have to wait a few more days :smile:
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