Personally, I wouldn't trust a $50 radio on my several hundred dollar quad (or multi thousand dollar helicopters) maybe that's just me. I use only Futaba radios, never been let down by one in 30 years of flying RC.
You'd be better off getting a good used radio than buying a cheap new one.
Here's a Futaba 6EX currently at $52 that would be perfect for the ELEV-8. Doesn't come with a receiver though [noparse]:([/noparse]
@W9GFO, Since you have 30 years doing RC, is a Futaba FP-T6NLK FM set up good for any thing? I picked up a complete setup with servos, batteries, etc. a couple years ago and have not found a use for it (yet). One of those things I bought and just put in the closet.
Sure it is, probably not good for a helicopter or quad but would work well for an airplane or glider. For a helicopter or quad you would want a computer radio where you can set endpoints and other things. If it will be used at a site where there are others on the same band make sure that the receiver is of the "narrow band" type.
I'll respectfully disagree with Rich on this one. I'd be hesitant to use a cheap remote with an expensive aircraft , but if I didn't already have plenty of transmitters, I'd probably try a 9X with my ELEV-8. I use HobbyKing receivers on several quadcopters and my hexacopter.
Servo magazine has had several quadcopter articles lately. This month's Servo has another article by Michael Simpson about quadcopters. Michael recommends two radios in the article; the Turnigy 9X and the Futaba 8FG Super.
I'll respectfully disagree with Rich on this one. I'd be hesitant to use a cheap remote with an expensive aircraft ...
I like the way you disagree!
It's not that I don't think a cheap Chinese radio can do the job. The question is how will it hold up? It is so common these days for people to buy the cheapest option, then not being surprised when they have to replace it after a short time. In the long run it is more expensive and wasteful.
Quick question regarding assembly. The brackets that come with the motors, I didn't see those in the drawing and as I've looked at others builds I'm not sure if they have used it or not. When mounted without the bracket the motor wires seem to get a tight bend when the boom is mounted (I'm concerned that these will get cut over time). I decided to use the bracket to eliminate the bending of the wires, so with the screws provided it looks like I can get maybe 3-4 threads engaged to the motor, now my concern is that this will not give me enough grip over time. Has anyone experienced issues with this? I think those are 3mm screws should I just get 4mm screws instead?
Quick question regarding assembly. The brackets that come with the motors, I didn't see those in the drawing and as I've looked at others builds I'm not sure if they have used it or not. When mounted without the bracket the motor wires seem to get a tight bend when the boom is mounted (I'm concerned that these will get cut over time). I decided to use the bracket to eliminate the bending of the wires, so with the screws provided it looks like I can get maybe 3-4 threads engaged to the motor, now my concern is that this will not give me enough grip over time. Has anyone experienced issues with this? I think those are 3mm screws should I just get 4mm screws instead?
Which motors are you using?
I agree, you don't want a tight bend in the wires. I've found the screws that come with some of these brushless motors are barely long enough to do the job. I purchased a bunch of various length of screws to have on hand and I usually use my own hardware to install motors.
That said, 3 or 4 threads may be enough to hold the motor in place. Can you look inside the motor to see how far the threads reach? You don't want screws to go up inside the motor to interfere with the wiring inside. Make sure and use Loctite on the threads or everthing will shake apart.
I'm pretty sure Parallax just passes on the hardware that comes with the motors. I think they only add hardware for the frame of the ELEV-8.
You can buy extra screws from McMaster-Carr or Micro Fasteners. I think the screws holding on the motors are metric M3. If you buy extra screws, you might want to get some extra 4-40 hardware to have replacements of the frame hardware.
I'd like to extend a huge THANK YOU to all the posters on the Elev-8 forum. I just got my quad finished today and took it out for a spin. I had the usual sort of issues putting it together successfully, but the collective wisdom from you guys made it possible.
One lesson learned is that the mQx Blade is a great training tool. I bought the Phoenix simulator as well, but flying a scaled-down version of the real thing is much more valuable than a S/W trainer (and more fun...).
Quick question regarding assembly. The brackets that come with the motors, I didn't see those in the drawing and as I've looked at others builds I'm not sure if they have used it or not. When mounted without the bracket the motor wires seem to get a tight bend when the boom is mounted (I'm concerned that these will get cut over time). I decided to use the bracket to eliminate the bending of the wires, so with the screws provided it looks like I can get maybe 3-4 threads engaged to the motor, now my concern is that this will not give me enough grip over time. Has anyone experienced issues with this? I think those are 3mm screws should I just get 4mm screws instead?
I just started building my ELEV-8 today and ran into the same problem. It seems like the motors that come with this kit have been changed but the assembly guide hasn't been updated. Or do the motors change on a regular basis based on availability or something? The thing that confused me the most was that these motors came with a collet prop adapter instead of the one that is shown on the first page of the assembly guide so initially I thought I was missing a bunch of stuff (flat headed screws, set screws, prop adapter) but after I looked at the parts more it became clearer what was going on and my build is now progressing. Slowly but no roadblocks yet. And the slowness is mostly because I am really out of practice on my soldering skills
Edit: for clarity I guess I should state that I got A2212-13 motors.
You should have the same motors that are in the current guide. They are gold in color. The KDA22's are blue and are an older version of the kit. They work just the same but the only difference is the connector used for the Propeller.
If you run into any issues give use a ring over at tech support.
I'm at the point that I need to update the client for my Hover Fly Open board, I guess I either lost or never got the cable, the connector looks unfamiliar to me. Does anyone know the type of cable I need so I can connect the board to my computer?
For the set up clients I don't see one for the Open board, which one should I be using?
For the LED strings can I connect those straight into the main power buss?
The HoverFly board connects to the PC with a USB to Mini-USB cable. (Not Micro-USB, that's even smaller). It's a very standard cable, and anywhere that sells consumer electronics should have one.
The LED strings should be 12V, so yes, you should be able to connect them to the main power. You might want to connect them with a plug connection or a switch so you can turn them off in daytime, but you don't need to.
Regarding the LED strips, since I had a couple of pieces that I trimmed off I thought I would take a couple practice runs at soldering wires to those extremely small pads, man those were tough and soldering is my strong point. Is there a trick to these that I am missing?
I got them from HobbyKing and they ship from China. They are $6.24 for a set of 4, they can take more of a beating than the kit propellers so they may save you some damage to the Quad on crashes.
Just because I see some questions about transmitters & receivers.
I use a HITec Aurora 9 transmitter & HITec Optima 9 receiver:
1. the Aurora 9 can be used with multiple aircraft, easy to save setups and recall them for each aircraft.
2. the Optima 7 & 9 receivers have voltage downlink to the Aurora transmitter.
The Aurora has on screen transmitter and receiver voltages. The receiver has a jumper that can be disconnected so the servo connections don't supply the power to the receiver, then hook up the main battery (elev-8) to supply the power to the receiver on that jumper connector. This setup shows the main battery voltage on the Aurora screen for the receiver. The Aurora can then be set for a low battery voltage warning for the receiver of 9.9 volts, this is the recommended low voltage for most 3 cell LiPo's. With this set up the Aurora receiver beeps at me when the elev-8 main battery hits 9.9 volts. If you set up the receiver to be supplied power only from the HoverFly then the Aurora would always show 5 volts [BEC] voltage.:frown: Don try this setup unless your receiver has this feature because voltages higher than 6 volts can and will damage your HoverFly board.:frown: If you are not aware this, it is the highest cost part on the elev-8.
It may be perfectly okay but do watch that the motors are not getting hot. Increasing diameter while retaining the same pitch means that the motor will turn slower for the same amount of thrust - which may put it outside of it's efficient operating range.
It may be perfectly okay but do watch that the motors are not getting hot. Increasing diameter while retaining the same pitch means that the motor will turn slower for the same amount of thrust - which may put it outside of it's efficient operating range.
Thanks for the input.
Looking at the two propellers laid on top of each other [1047 old & 1147 new] the new ones seam to only about 1/4" longer in pitched portion of the blade, the rest of the blade has very minor pitch (very close to flat). As I look at the slow flyer blades they are more cupped pitch than having the same pitch for the full length of the blade like on wood blades or real airplane propellers. I have seen a little longer flying times during hoover and slow movement. Typicality when I hit 10.6 volts I have about 4 min before hitting 9.9 volts, with the new props it is more like 7 min.
So after much gnashing of teeth while practicing soldering the LED strips I tried finding a smaller gauge multi strand wire to use, the only readily available wire I could find at the hardware store was a 6 strand telephone wire. As I was thinking about it this seems like a good solution, it fits in the tiny holes on the strips and has a flat outer jacket, I was planning on using a switch so I will use the 24g wire into my main power harness. My main concern though since I can't seem to find any specs for the telephone wire is will the LED draw more current than it is rated for, I did power up my LED with a 12v power supply and let it sit for awhile and didn't observe any noticeable heat.
I usually add a variety of wire (sizes and colors) to my HobbyKing orders. I'm pretty sure I used their 24 gauge wire on my LEDs. I think the wire you have should work fine (though I'm not positive).
^ Thanks for the replies Duane. I went with the telephone wire and it seems to be working pretty good at my bench.
A few questions more or maybe some advice.
1. There are 2 velcro straps that came with my kit, I'm assuming those are to hold the battery in place but they are pretty long, I almost have to loop the strap around twice to get the velcro to stick, is there a better way to secure the battery?
2. There are 2 pieces of double sided tape, I didn't see anything for those while I was building, I'm guessing those are for the receiver?
3. The hover fly board mounting, should I use lock tight on those screws? or is hand tightening good enough?
4. Any tips for the main power harness, anything I should be aware of prior to making mine?
5. The connector that is on the battery that is used during charging, is that used when the battery is installed onto the quad? or not needed during flight?
I'll probably have some more questions once I get to the programming of the ESC's, I'm in totally new territory once the construction phase is completed.
^ Thanks for the replies Duane. I went with the telephone wire and it seems to be working pretty good at my bench.
A few questions more or maybe some advice.
1. There are 2 velcro straps that came with my kit, I'm assuming those are to hold the battery in place but they are pretty long, I almost have to loop the strap around twice to get the velcro to stick, is there a better way to secure the battery?
Consider running the velcro through the top and bottom plates to take out slack, as once through this distance will take up the spare length. Also, one suggestion I have is to go to your local Ace and pick up some of the rubber-backed adhesive strips used for weatherstripping. Run a length along your battery, and then secure with Velcro. This guarantees a positive contact.
2. There are 2 pieces of double sided tape, I didn't see anything for those while I was building, I'm guessing those are for the receiver?
That's right. Depending on where you place the receiver it could be better to use a zip tie or two, but it really is a personal preference.
3. The hover fly board mounting, should I use lock tight on those screws? or is hand tightening good enough?
For metal screws in metal standoffs, loctite is suggested. But I'm pretty sure those standoffs are nylon. The anti-vibration pads need a tad of movement to do their job, so don't crank the screws down too tightly - just tightly enough that they don't work their way out.
4. Any tips for the main power harness, anything I should be aware of prior to making mine?
Work slowly and have patience. Do your best to avoid the rat-in-cable lump.
5. The connector that is on the battery that is used during charging, is that used when the battery is installed onto the quad? or not needed during flight?
The battery has two connectors. The EC3 (blue one, with positive/negative) is used for charging and powering the ELEV-8 motors and electronics. The battery's other connector is for cell balancing, and used only when charging.
I'll probably have some more questions once I get to the programming of the ESC's, I'm in totally new territory once the construction phase is completed.
^ Thanks
The rubber pieces under the battery was a great tip.
I thought I was going to be bench testing today but my latest snag is the wires that came with my kit to hook up the receiver, I think they are servo wires dont fit into my spectrum module. I'm not sure of the terminology for these but I think the kit wires have a "matchbook" connecter, my receiver has a slightly smaller connecter with rounded or a 45deg angle on one side. I checked horizon hobby site but cant seem to find any specific wires for these receivers. Anyone know where I can find some? I dont think I can file these down to the right size.
You're probably holding "Futaba" style connectors that have a little tab that sticks out along one edge. The others are usually called "JR" style, or universal. You can use a hobby or x-acto knife and just shave down that little tab. Be careful not to cut all the way to the metal connector if possible, but even if you do they'll still work.
I did a little research and it seems like a common complaint is that the sockets are pretty small, I had an extra binding plug so I tried removing the wires and was able to switch out the connector. I ordered 5 more of the plugs and it seems like my problem is solved, hopefully I'll be ready to do my bench test and be airborne this weekend. I'm only 4mo behind my original schedule so a few more days won't kill me.
Had my 1st flight this weekend Woo Hoo!
I need to work on my landing skills a bit as I broke all of the legs :frown: but I was flying & the quad responded as it was supposed to so all in all I'm happy, just need to wait for my new landing gear to arrive. I'm thinking long term I may need to beef that part of the quad up a bit since I didn't think my landing was that hard.
Thanks to all the previous posters as well as those who responded directly to my questions, the advice was much appreciated :thumb:
A couple users have had good luck using large zip-tie straps as landing gear. Get the ones that are about 1/4" thick and attach them so they make a U-shaped loop under each arm. They have a lot more flex than the standard landing gear and are a lot more forgiving for a new pilot.
I've built an ELEV-8 kit that uses the HoverflyOpen. Upon take-off the speed of all the motors starts to oscillate about once every 0.6 seconds.
I never get much additional lift from then on no matter how high I take the throttle.
Here's an example of it on video.
[video=youtube_share;7SK-ibKy318]
Any idea what I'm doing wrong here? Thanks!
Here are some more specifics.
Vibration:
I've tightened all the screws and reseated the props.
Here's a vibration test I did with it tied down. (Click to enlarge.)
TX/RX:
I am using a Futaba controller T6EX and a Futaba R617FS receiver.
I have inverted all the channels as indicated in the documentation and can confirm that left/right/forward/backward and throttle up/down work. I can't keep it in the air long enough to test yaw.
I've decreases gain a bit to 15%, is that enough?
ESCs:
Double checked all the ESCs and their channels and polarity and prop directions.
I've found conflicting info about whether to program the ESCs for Li-xx or Ni-xx. I think they're currently on Ni-xx despite the fact that I'm using LiPo. I believe I had this problem back on LiPo too.
Hoverfly Open Software:
I'm using 1.5.0.60 (old version?) of the Hoverfly Setup on Windows and it doesn't seem to work other than to check the XYZ tilt sensor. Hoverfly support says this is normal.
Comments
You'd be better off getting a good used radio than buying a cheap new one.
Here's a Futaba 6EX currently at $52 that would be perfect for the ELEV-8. Doesn't come with a receiver though [noparse]:([/noparse]
Here is the current version.
Servo magazine has had several quadcopter articles lately. This month's Servo has another article by Michael Simpson about quadcopters. Michael recommends two radios in the article; the Turnigy 9X and the Futaba 8FG Super.
I like the way you disagree!
It's not that I don't think a cheap Chinese radio can do the job. The question is how will it hold up? It is so common these days for people to buy the cheapest option, then not being surprised when they have to replace it after a short time. In the long run it is more expensive and wasteful.
Which motors are you using?
I agree, you don't want a tight bend in the wires. I've found the screws that come with some of these brushless motors are barely long enough to do the job. I purchased a bunch of various length of screws to have on hand and I usually use my own hardware to install motors.
That said, 3 or 4 threads may be enough to hold the motor in place. Can you look inside the motor to see how far the threads reach? You don't want screws to go up inside the motor to interfere with the wiring inside. Make sure and use Loctite on the threads or everthing will shake apart.
I'm pretty sure Parallax just passes on the hardware that comes with the motors. I think they only add hardware for the frame of the ELEV-8.
You can buy extra screws from McMaster-Carr or Micro Fasteners. I think the screws holding on the motors are metric M3. If you buy extra screws, you might want to get some extra 4-40 hardware to have replacements of the frame hardware.
One lesson learned is that the mQx Blade is a great training tool. I bought the Phoenix simulator as well, but flying a scaled-down version of the real thing is much more valuable than a S/W trainer (and more fun...).
Best,
Tom McKinnon
InventWorks Inc.
-MattG
I just started building my ELEV-8 today and ran into the same problem. It seems like the motors that come with this kit have been changed but the assembly guide hasn't been updated. Or do the motors change on a regular basis based on availability or something? The thing that confused me the most was that these motors came with a collet prop adapter instead of the one that is shown on the first page of the assembly guide so initially I thought I was missing a bunch of stuff (flat headed screws, set screws, prop adapter) but after I looked at the parts more it became clearer what was going on and my build is now progressing. Slowly but no roadblocks yet. And the slowness is mostly because I am really out of practice on my soldering skills
Edit: for clarity I guess I should state that I got A2212-13 motors.
You should have the same motors that are in the current guide. They are gold in color. The KDA22's are blue and are an older version of the kit. They work just the same but the only difference is the connector used for the Propeller.
If you run into any issues give use a ring over at tech support.
I'm at the point that I need to update the client for my Hover Fly Open board, I guess I either lost or never got the cable, the connector looks unfamiliar to me. Does anyone know the type of cable I need so I can connect the board to my computer?
For the set up clients I don't see one for the Open board, which one should I be using?
For the LED strings can I connect those straight into the main power buss?
The LED strings should be 12V, so yes, you should be able to connect them to the main power. You might want to connect them with a plug connection or a switch so you can turn them off in daytime, but you don't need to.
Regarding the LED strips, since I had a couple of pieces that I trimmed off I thought I would take a couple practice runs at soldering wires to those extremely small pads, man those were tough and soldering is my strong point. Is there a trick to these that I am missing?
I have tried some new carbon fiber and plastic mix propellers on my Elev-8 and they work great, they are 1" longer and the same pitch as the ones supplied with the kit.
Turnigy Carbon Mixed slow fly prop w/adapters 1147 SF (4 pc)
Turnigy Carbon Mixed slow fly prop w/adapters 1147R SF (4 pc Right Hand Rotation)
I got them from HobbyKing and they ship from China. They are $6.24 for a set of 4, they can take more of a beating than the kit propellers so they may save you some damage to the Quad on crashes.
Just because I see some questions about transmitters & receivers.
I use a HITec Aurora 9 transmitter & HITec Optima 9 receiver:
1. the Aurora 9 can be used with multiple aircraft, easy to save setups and recall them for each aircraft.
2. the Optima 7 & 9 receivers have voltage downlink to the Aurora transmitter.
The Aurora has on screen transmitter and receiver voltages.
It may be perfectly okay but do watch that the motors are not getting hot. Increasing diameter while retaining the same pitch means that the motor will turn slower for the same amount of thrust - which may put it outside of it's efficient operating range.
Thanks for the input.
Looking at the two propellers laid on top of each other [1047 old & 1147 new] the new ones seam to only about 1/4" longer in pitched portion of the blade, the rest of the blade has very minor pitch (very close to flat). As I look at the slow flyer blades they are more cupped pitch than having the same pitch for the full length of the blade like on wood blades or real airplane propellers. I have seen a little longer flying times during hoover and slow movement. Typicality when I hit 10.6 volts I have about 4 min before hitting 9.9 volts, with the new props it is more like 7 min.
A few questions more or maybe some advice.
1. There are 2 velcro straps that came with my kit, I'm assuming those are to hold the battery in place but they are pretty long, I almost have to loop the strap around twice to get the velcro to stick, is there a better way to secure the battery?
2. There are 2 pieces of double sided tape, I didn't see anything for those while I was building, I'm guessing those are for the receiver?
3. The hover fly board mounting, should I use lock tight on those screws? or is hand tightening good enough?
4. Any tips for the main power harness, anything I should be aware of prior to making mine?
5. The connector that is on the battery that is used during charging, is that used when the battery is installed onto the quad? or not needed during flight?
I'll probably have some more questions once I get to the programming of the ESC's, I'm in totally new territory once the construction phase is completed.
Consider running the velcro through the top and bottom plates to take out slack, as once through this distance will take up the spare length. Also, one suggestion I have is to go to your local Ace and pick up some of the rubber-backed adhesive strips used for weatherstripping. Run a length along your battery, and then secure with Velcro. This guarantees a positive contact.
That's right. Depending on where you place the receiver it could be better to use a zip tie or two, but it really is a personal preference.
For metal screws in metal standoffs, loctite is suggested. But I'm pretty sure those standoffs are nylon. The anti-vibration pads need a tad of movement to do their job, so don't crank the screws down too tightly - just tightly enough that they don't work their way out.
Work slowly and have patience. Do your best to avoid the rat-in-cable lump.
The battery has two connectors. The EC3 (blue one, with positive/negative) is used for charging and powering the ELEV-8 motors and electronics. The battery's other connector is for cell balancing, and used only when charging.
We're pleased to help.
The rubber pieces under the battery was a great tip.
I thought I was going to be bench testing today but my latest snag is the wires that came with my kit to hook up the receiver, I think they are servo wires dont fit into my spectrum module. I'm not sure of the terminology for these but I think the kit wires have a "matchbook" connecter, my receiver has a slightly smaller connecter with rounded or a 45deg angle on one side. I checked horizon hobby site but cant seem to find any specific wires for these receivers. Anyone know where I can find some? I dont think I can file these down to the right size.
Have a look at the pic on the bottom of this page:
http://www.jerseycoastrcclub.org/MembersArea/Training/servos_wiring_diagrams.htm
The left-edge of the Futaba connector (the little shelf) is the bit that you file or cut off.
http://www.spektrumrc.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=SPM6802
I did a little research and it seems like a common complaint is that the sockets are pretty small, I had an extra binding plug so I tried removing the wires and was able to switch out the connector. I ordered 5 more of the plugs and it seems like my problem is solved, hopefully I'll be ready to do my bench test and be airborne this weekend. I'm only 4mo behind my original schedule so a few more days won't kill me.
I'm silly that way :cool:
I need to work on my landing skills a bit as I broke all of the legs :frown: but I was flying & the quad responded as it was supposed to so all in all I'm happy, just need to wait for my new landing gear to arrive. I'm thinking long term I may need to beef that part of the quad up a bit since I didn't think my landing was that hard.
Thanks to all the previous posters as well as those who responded directly to my questions, the advice was much appreciated :thumb:
I never get much additional lift from then on no matter how high I take the throttle.
Here's an example of it on video.
[video=youtube_share;7SK-ibKy318]
Any idea what I'm doing wrong here? Thanks!
Here are some more specifics.
Vibration:
I've tightened all the screws and reseated the props.
Here's a vibration test I did with it tied down. (Click to enlarge.)
TX/RX:
I am using a Futaba controller T6EX and a Futaba R617FS receiver.
I have inverted all the channels as indicated in the documentation and can confirm that left/right/forward/backward and throttle up/down work. I can't keep it in the air long enough to test yaw.
I've decreases gain a bit to 15%, is that enough?
ESCs:
Double checked all the ESCs and their channels and polarity and prop directions.
I've found conflicting info about whether to program the ESCs for Li-xx or Ni-xx. I think they're currently on Ni-xx despite the fact that I'm using LiPo. I believe I had this problem back on LiPo too.
Hoverfly Open Software:
I'm using 1.5.0.60 (old version?) of the Hoverfly Setup on Windows and it doesn't seem to work other than to check the XYZ tilt sensor. Hoverfly support says this is normal.
Since you have hover ability I think you've got the motors rotating in the right direction and propellers properly attached.
To me, that looks like a slop issue - have you wiggled each motor from the propeller and verified that the motor mount is secure and doesn't wobble?