Parallax Serial Terminal help

Philldapill · 2009-05-29 06:19

I've been designing a project for a while now. This project will be a commercial product sold on ebay, so I want it to have the very best features. One feature I want, is some sort of display device, and a user input device - a keyboard. At first, I set out to design in a TV and keyboard port until I remembered about the Parallax serial terminal...

I've been using the PST for a week now, and it sure is nice being able to use my keyboard/computer screen to run interface with my project. So, I got to thinking - why not use the PST completely and do away with seperate TV and keyboard ports?

So, here's my question... Is the PST limited to basic text ONLY, or can it do anything else? Also, is there another such program that can allow you to interface with the Propeller, and allow the Propeller to save files to the computer itself instead of an SD Card? All I would need to implement this on each of my products is the FTDI chip, and a handful of other minor components? No programming of the FTDI chip or anything?

I'd like to make this simple and just have a USB port on my product so that my customers can plug the device in, and use the computer to control it via the USB port.

SRLM · 2009-05-29 07:34

You could write custom software that just runs on the computer and does what you want... There is also another terminal for the prop that does graphics and there's a thread about it here in the forum. I've never used it though.

Cluso99 · 2009-05-29 09:26

You might find Prop Terminal mor suitable for what you require. I know it can do file functions although I have not used them.

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Links to other interesting threads:

· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBladeProp, SixBladeProp, website (Multiple propeller pcbs)
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100 (Index)
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm

Oldbitcollector (Jeff) · 2009-05-29 13:53

Philldapill said...

So, here's my question... Is the PST limited to basic text ONLY, or can it do anything else? Also, is there another such program that can allow you to interface with the Propeller, and allow the Propeller to save files to the computer itself instead of an SD Card?

Something which simulated the features of the current SD driver would be extremely cool. Folks could simply drop in the replacement object and take off. Any sharp coders want to take this one on? [noparse]:)[/noparse]

OBC

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New to the Propeller?

Visit the: The Propeller Pages @ Warranty Void.

Philldapill · 2009-05-29 16:50

I agree, OBC. Having the ability to directly interface with a computer's files would be grrrreat. Maybe I'm speaking from ignorance about all this... BUT Laptops have just about become the norm, and with them being so portable, would make an application like this a wonderful addition to all the Propeller can do.

Philldapill · 2009-05-29 23:19

Cluso99, Where can I find Prop Terminal?

Oldbitcollector (Jeff) · 2009-05-30 00:49

I'm not Cluso, but here.. [noparse]:)[/noparse]

Propterminal:
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=649540

OBC

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New to the Propeller?

Visit the: The Propeller Pages @ Warranty Void.

Ariba · 2009-05-30 02:47

Philldapill

You're on the right way, if you try PropTerminal. It has some nice features for your application:
- Beside Text, you can also draw graphic lines boxes... with serial commands.
- You can save a Text, which you have sent to the Terminal , on the PC harddisk, initated by the Spin code.
- Spin code can request PropTerminal to upload a dedicated text- or binary file.
- Spin can request the current time and date from the PC via PropTerminal.
- PropTerminal has an intergrated Loader to update the RAM or EEPROM code.

Download version 0.4 and then replace PropTerminal.exe with the version 0.47 or higher to use the file load (can be found in the thread above).

Attached are some examples to save and load a file (max. 32 kByte for save) to/from the PC harddisk.
Look also in the ZIP of version 0.3 there is an example how to load precompiled code binaries on Spin request.

Andy

Cluso99 · 2009-05-30 02:58

Ariba: There are many more features than I thought. I have been using it for ZiCog and CPM on the TriBlade.

Heater has written a PC_Text and PC_Keyboard to replace the Text and Keyboard objects (see the ZiCog thread for the code)

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Links to other interesting threads:

· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBladeProp, SixBladeProp, website (Multiple propeller pcbs)
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100 (Index)
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm

Ariba · 2009-05-30 05:22

Cluso99

I have omitted some features [noparse]:)[/noparse]

The pc_text, pc_keyboard, pc_mouse and pc_interface objects are written by me, and are part of the PropTerminal distribution.
They are mostly compatibel to the tv_text/vga_text, keyboard and mouse objects. The pc_interface is a combined driver which uses only 1 cog and provides also simple methodes for the graphic commands.

Andy

Philldapill · 2009-05-30 05:27

Excuse the language, but holy Smile! I had no idea Prop Terminal could save data to the PC harddisk, by the Propeller's commands... I want to be able to log data from the Propeller, to the hard drive. I think this is what you are saying? If so, I'd LOVE to pay some royalties if my product works out...

EDIT: Wow, Ariba... If this works out, you may have just consolidated a large sum of my parts and complexity. My gadget was going to have a PS/2 port, a TV out port, a power plug port, and SOMEHOW and SD Card port that the user would have to get to from the outside... If it's ok to use your program, I'll be able to consolidate EVERYTHING into a single USB port - and get the power from the USB line. This is amazing to say the least...

Post Edited (Philldapill) : 5/30/2009 5:34:07 AM GMT

Mike Huselton · 2009-05-30 05:36

Ariba,
Where is it?. Not in OBEX.

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JMH

Philldapill · 2009-05-30 05:42

It's right here: http://forums.parallax.com/forums/default.aspx?f=25&p=1&m=189805

I had to search the forums for a bit to find it.

Philldapill · 2009-05-30 16:55

Ariba, is there any way to make the PropTerminal window bigger?

Philldapill · 2009-05-30 18:46

Andy, you really have made a amazingly simple piece of software for the Propeller. Thank you.

Attached is a simple graphing utility I'm working on for the PropTerminal.·Each time the graph is updated, it shifts the table values, then adds in the sample. Right now, it is set up to repeat the graph by adding the first "sample" into the table of values. I'd like to work on this a little more because this EXACT thing is what I wanted in my own product.

I can't thank you enough, Andy. [noparse]:D[/noparse] [noparse]:D[/noparse] [noparse]:D[/noparse]

Post Edited (Philldapill) : 5/30/2009 6:53:10 PM GMT

Cluso99 · 2009-05-31 04:24

Andy: Thanks heaps. I didn't realise they were yours. It makes life so much simpler to be able to use the PC while developing code and then when it runs just add the real VGA/TV and keyboard. It's unfortunate that we often use something, not knowing where it originates, and then fail to give credit where credit is due (perhaps it is in the code, I just haven't looked) - thanks again

A nice feature would be to be able to download a binary (i.e. resetting the prop and downloading) as I am now using homespun/bstc for compiling and this would avoid having to use PropTool. I am not asking for placing into eeprom because this does not happen often. I have to place delays so that I can switch between PropTool and Prop Terminal.

For the record, I am using heater's ZiCog and the TriBlade, neither of which are necessary. I use the SD card to store code and data. This code has a lot more uses if the ZiCog and TriBlade code were to be stripped out. PropDos/PropCmd could be put back in. Last night I built a minimal boot code for booting a binary from the SD card (untested). I need this for my standalone RamBlade and I need to know how big it has to be since it can be loaded by another propeller or micro (MC9S08xx).

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Links to other interesting threads:

· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBladeProp, SixBladeProp, website (Multiple propeller pcbs)
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100 (Index)
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm

Ariba · 2009-05-31 09:35

Cluso99 said...

A nice feature would be to be able to download a binary (i.e. resetting the prop and downloading) as I am now using homespun/bstc for compiling and this would avoid having to use PropTool. I am not asking for placing into eeprom because this does not happen often...

This is possible, and also to eeprom. Just use the 'Upload' menu item in the 'File' menu.
And as I tried to say before: You can also load the Propeller RAM with new code binaries, controlled by Spin code. You need to send an exact sequence of control bytes to PropTerminal (which includes the filename), then PropTerminal resets the Propeller and loads this new binary in the RAM (or EEPROM if the extension is .eeprom). This allows code overlays or automatic updates.

Philldapill said...

Ariba, is there any way to make the PropTerminal window bigger?

Yes, you need to edit the PropTerminal.ini file. You get this file with 'Save Settings' in the menu. Then change the 'Cols' and 'Rows' parameters. Default is 40 x 13 characters, you can set 80 x 24 characters for example and you get a bigger window when you restart PropTerminal.
This ini file lets you edit a lot of parameters, also the colors, or COM port, or you can define a *.binary file which is loaded into RAM at Startup.

If you want to pay for it, you can get a customized version of PropTerminal for your commercial product. It can have the product name in the title bar, and the 'About' and "Website' menu contents changed.

Andy

Philldapill · 2009-05-31 14:03

Hmmm, Ariba, it seems that the maximum pixel area is 512 x 512 pixels, or 60 x 30 characters. This will definitely work for my application, but a 9-bit area seems a strange...

Regardless, this really is an absolutely wonderful bit of software. If you don't mind me using it in my commercial product, I'd like to use it as is for now, and once I get it up and going, then sure, a custom PropTerminal would be great!

Ariba · 2009-05-31 17:39

Ohh yes, for graphic commands and mouse coordinates the limit is 512 x 512 pixels, because I use 9 bits for coding x and y.
But you can have more than 60 Characters in a line, with text functions.

I've once decided to make PropTerminal free, also for commercial products, so no problem, if you use it as is.
I see it as an ad for my website and company, so be aware that it shows a little banner on eeprom upload.

Andy

Philldapill · 2009-05-31 18:10

Yes, I noticed the ad. Not a problem at all, but I would like to get a custom version later on. You deserve some compensation for your hard work.

BTW, the eeprom upload is great! What I'm thinking, is getting my hardware perfected and start selling these units, but be able to easily upgrade these units when they are in the customer's hands. This is actually one of my selling points... FREE firmware and feature upgrades for the life of the device.

Thanks again, Andy!

Philldapill · 2009-05-31 22:10

Andy, is there any way to do buffering with the PropTerminal program? I am drawing a good bit of graphics, and it seems that it takes a while to transmit the data from the Propeller to PropTerminal. Is there any way that you could do a sort of program drawing delay, until the program recieves a certain command?

Ariba · 2009-08-22 17:59

Philldapill

Finally, I had the time to include the double buffering into PropTerminal. Attached is a Test version.

It uses a new HOME command to enable double buffering and copy the hided drawing buffer to screen.
This Home command has code 2 (instead of code 1 for the normal HOME command).
If you send 2 to the terminal, cursor is set to pos 0,0 and further drawing goes only to the drawing buffer.
When you will update the screen with the drawing buffer, just send code 2 again. This updates the screen and sets
the home position again.

To disable double buffering use the normal HOME with code 1.

Andy

Philldapill · 2010-04-08 20:45

Well, this is weird... I've been using PropTerminal with the Propeller and the double buffering seems to work just fine. However, I've started trying PropTerminal with a PIC24HJ32GP202, and the double buffering doesn't work at all. I'll send Prop Terminal all my drawing code, send a $02 byte to update the screen, then send a $00 to clear the buffer, and repeat. However, the screen IMMEDIATELY starts being drawn to when I send my graphic data. If I slow the data rate down, I can literally see each graphic command appear on the screen(e.g. lines are drawn individually). Once I send the $00 byte, the entire screen gets cleared, instead of the buffer.

Any idea what the heck is going on? Any reason why double buffering wouldn't work with a PIC? It's exactly the same commands, but different results...?

Post Edited (Philldapill) : 4/9/2010 3:23:13 AM GMT

Philldapill · 2010-04-12 06:28

Also, at "high" transfer rates, it seems that some commands fail to send for whatever reason. Could this possibly be some kind of bad connection issue?

Works fine for the propeller, but sporadically and sometimes not at all for the PIC...

Cluso99 · 2010-04-12 06:41

Phill: I am not sure about the $00. On the VGA and TV text, $00 clears the screen.

Sorry, I cannot help with the other problem.

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Links to other interesting threads:

· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)·
· Prop OS: SphinxOS·, PropDos , PropCmd··· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBlade Props: www.cluso.bluemagic.biz

Philldapill · 2010-04-13 03:54

Yes, Cluso, this is the same sort of thing. However, Andy's program has a double buffering system in it where the $02 flips the back buffer to the screen, and $00 should clear the back buffer - not the screen. Arg... Andy??? [noparse]:([/noparse]

Ariba · 2010-04-13 12:44

Sorry for the late response

How is the PIC connected to the PC, and how the Propeller? (USB converter, SerialPort?)
Most Propeller serial drivers send 2 stop bits, perhaps it helps if also the PIC will do that.

In general the PropTerminal can not know, who sends the serial data, so it has no preferences for a Propeller.
(but perhaps the PIC wan't work because the program is called PROP Terminal?

)

Andy

Philldapill · 2010-04-14 02:52

Well, dang... It turns out that the "Normal-Terminal Mode" enabled was the problem... I had to set it to enabled when I first started playing with the PIC because I didn't know how to change the baudrate from 57600(on the PIC), to 115200. Everything works 100% great now!

Thanks, Andy. I hope someone has told you that you are a wonderful human being that makes amazing software.

Parallax Serial Terminal help

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