Chameleons AVR/PIC with Propeller media processor are done!

Comments

• mikediv Posts: 825

  2009-10-03 00:44 edited 2009-10-03 00:44

  AndreL I bought your Hydra system and have been very impressed and happy with my purchase your book game programing is incredible I wish I could understand it better its quite advanced for me as an absolute beginner but it just has all the information about the prop very nice
  Andre I actually have a question in here, I have wasted a bunch of money buying buying FPGA and CPLD evaluation boards I know nothing about these devices but I really want to learn ,, would you recommended your Mach64 CPLD kit for a beginner???
  
  Also I am very interested in the PIC version of your Chameleon is this system to learn PICs and the prop or is it for something else can you just give me a quick Why someone would buy one of these boards sales pitch?? And I hate to bug you but for the Chameleon product would you recommend the PIC version or the AVR again for a beginner
  Thank you
• AndreL Posts: 1,004

  2009-10-03 05:41 edited 2009-10-03 05:41

  A lot of people are challenged by CPLDs and FPGAs -- there are some good starter kits, but the books written on them are quite advanced usually and much of the material is on simulation rather than synthesis of actual circuits. That said, I made the MACH64 as a really easy way to get into CPLDs, built in programmer with a parallel port, and the book I wrote has a number of "hands on" experiments that SHOW you how to do things, explain what is going on and why. So I personally think its a pretty good kit. There is only a SINGLE other product that comes close and its called "Rapid PRototyping of digital systems". Its based on the Altera university stater kit and very well written. The only downside is that its primarily VHDL which I don't like, 90% of people in the USA prefer verilog. Even still, it has some verilog in it then it concentrates on VHDL, but its very "experiment" like similar to the MACH64. But, I like the MACH64 since it uses a CPLD you can actually buy, and actually have a chance of soldering in a REAL project, 48 pins, anyone can solder that [noparse]:)[/noparse]
  
  As far as the Chameleons, they are like BASIC Stamps or Arduinos, used to solve problems, but much more powerful. The PIC version is running at 40 MIPS plus the Prop doing all the heavy lifting, so they are designed for real world solutions, anywhere you would use a stamp or arduino, but need a lot more horsepower and media generation like video, vga, etc. the Chameleon is a good choice. And the prices are very low. Then on the flip side, its a very cool theory product to play with, multiprocessor and multicore.
  
  Andre'
• mikediv Posts: 825

  2009-10-03 20:01 edited 2009-10-03 20:01

  Thank you Sir I am placing my order for both products. Like you pointed out the eval boards I purchased are very nice boards but the documentation is just horrible or non existent. I was, am, very happy with my Hydra system mainly because of your very complete and extensive book you included with the Hydra system I look forward to these new products thank you for taking the time to answer my questions Andre
• AndreL Posts: 1,004

  2009-10-03 20:17 edited 2009-10-03 20:17

  No problem. That's the thing, everyone more or less makes the same stuff, but the documentation is really all that separates products, so I always try to write docs as if I was reading them and not assuming customers have been doing this 20 years or can read minds. When I get a product with a little 5-6 page "document" it makes me mad, since the product took months to develop (if not 1-2 years) and the company didn't think that all that work deserves a decent user manual. So at the 11th hour they drop the ball, a typical fault of engineers, they are smart, but so dumb at the same time. They design a time machine then forget to put a power switch on it ! So docs are the same way, I am like if I am going to spend months on something, I can take a few weeks and write a decent document to go along with it.
  
  Andre'
  
  Post Edited (AndreL) : 10/3/2009 11:13:54 PM GMT
• T&E Engineer Posts: 1,396

  2009-10-05 19:08 edited 2009-10-05 19:08

  AndreL,
  
  I really like the idea of programming it in BASIC !
  
  If I have a Mikroelektronika BIGAVR2 http://www.mikroe.com/en/tools/bigavr2/·, and MikroC Pro·http://www.mikroe.com/en/compilers/mikroc/avr/·for the AVR and MikroBASIC PRO http://www.mikroe.com/en/compilers/mikrobasic/avr/·for the AVR as well as an Arduino·Duemilanove http://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardDuemilanove
  
  ...does this matter on getting the AVR or the PIC version? Sounds like I would have an advantage for the AVR version of the Chameleon. Right?
  
  I haven't spent a great deal of time with the AVR products listed above (as I mainly focus on the SX28 / SX48) but I do have them if they can be used with the Chameleon for the AVR. I just don't want to have to learn SPIN and would rather keep it simple at BASIC or "maybe" C if I have to.
  
  Can the SX28 / SX48 talk to these or does the user need an AVR or PIC to communicate with the Chameleon(s)?
  
  Thoughts..Comments?
• AndreL Posts: 1,004

  2009-10-05 19:55 edited 2009-10-05 19:55

  The AVR and PIC processors are BUILT into the Chameleon, so the user doesn't "need" and AVR or PIC, they are part of the design as are the Propellers on each PCB. But, sounds like you have too many kits already, you might want to get your monies worth out of them. But, if you do want a Chameleon then I suggest the more powerful 16-bit PIC version since it sounds like you don't have a lot of PIC products and the PIC24 is the 16-BIT pic which is pretty nice.
  
  Andre'
• COlsen Posts: 8

  2009-10-05 20:26 edited 2009-10-05 20:26

  Hi Andre,
  
  I notice that the Chameleon products are listed on the XGameStation(tm) website as "pre-order". Can you give an estimate on whey they will ship if ordered at the "pre-order" price?
• AndreL Posts: 1,004

  2009-10-05 20:49 edited 2009-10-05 20:49

  It's right on the product pages, they are shipping in 10-15 business days, so that's 2-3 weeks unless there are holidays that I am not counting. I don't take days off EVER, so I don't keep track of holidays, but 10-15 biz days roughly. Then after we sell thru the first units, I will probably increase price, not sure, I have to look at the dust settle, final cost, parts, shipping from china, total packaging, man hours per unit to ship, etc. So bottom line is if you want to save $10 then buy them now, either way they won't ship for 2-3 weeks.
  
  Andre'
• T&E Engineer Posts: 1,396

  2009-10-06 11:28 edited 2009-10-06 11:28

  I'm a bit confused. Why offer an AVR version and a PIC version unless you need to user to be familiar with these micro-controllers to interface to those particular Chameleons? Why not just have a PIC version since this uses a 16 bit PIC. Why even offer an AVR version. What advantage would it offer. Don't get me wrong, I'm just trying to understand the product and how it·is to be·used effectively.
  
  It also looks like that BASIC is not complete in the PIC and the AVR versions? an ongoing development perhaps. Can someone explain this?
  
  Does buying the PIC version mean the user would need to understand PIC assembly, PIC C or this new uncompleted BASIC? Likewise for the AVR version? Perhaps thoses are the reasons for the different versions.
  
  If so, and I already have·some AVR products·to learn the AVR, then why would AndreL recommend the PIC version if I would have to learn something completely new in Assembly, C or BASIC? I have enough to understand with the SX chips, BS2's and now starting with the AVRs. Learning the PIC may be too much on my plate right now.
  
  Please help me understand this.
• AndreL Posts: 1,004

  2009-10-06 12:23 edited 2009-10-06 12:23

  I think you are making this more complicated than it is. First, the PIC and AVR are like chevy and ford. Some people like AVRs, some like PICs. We like both.
  
  Forget the BASIC, it will just confuse you. Its for newbies. 99% of customers will program in C/C++ and ASM for the particular processor. If you get the AVR version then you are going to program in C/C++ for that processor. C/C++ is C/C++ that's why its called C/C++, but the ASM if specific to the processor obviously. However, I doubt you will ever need ASM unless you are doing something really performance bound. So as long as you know C/C++, then you can program either unit.
  
  So then the question is do you like AVRs or PICs better?
  
  If you don't have a preference then if you have $10 more, get the PIC version. If you want to save money and don't need the extra performance, get the AVR.
  
  But, this isn't for learning really, its an application product, so if you have a problem and a basic stamp, arduino, or something similar would solve the problem, the chameleon would solve it, but give you more power, and all the media generation abilities.
  
  On the other hand, if you want to learn PIC16 bit stuff this is a cool way to do it.
  
  Simple [noparse]:)[/noparse]
  
  Andre'
• T&E Engineer Posts: 1,396

  2009-10-06 12:52 edited 2009-10-06 12:52

  Thank you for the clarification. However, I think I will wait until the documentation manual is available to download to make any decisions. I'm new to C and would rather stay with a BASIC programming set up if possible. However, if after reading the documentation, the Chameleon is so outstanding (which it certainly sounds like it is), then perhaps going the C route would be the right way. Probably more so with the PIC16 version.
• jerris Posts: 6

  2009-10-06 20:27 edited 2009-10-06 20:27

  Ordered my PIC version yesterday. Can't wait. Got some great ideas for it.
• Joshua Hintze Posts: 4

  2009-10-08 05:51 edited 2009-10-08 05:51

  Sweet
• AndreL Posts: 1,004

  2009-11-12 04:30 edited 2009-11-12 04:30

  Those of you waiting to get the Propeller powered Chameleons, they are shipping now, you can check them out on the XGameStation site, there are two flavors, both have a Propeller chip and allow you to control it with an AVR/PIC respectively in C/C++. Drivers, API, and a 300 page book I wrote explain the whole thing.
  
  AVR Version
  
  www.xgamestation.com/view_product.php?id=51
  
  PIC Version
  www.xgamestation.com/view_product.php?id=52
  
  Here's a couple architecture links:
  
  www.xgamestation.com/view_media.php?path=products/chamavr/AL_prop_serial_figure_01_LRG.png&title=Chameleon%20AVR%208-Bit%20System&timestamp=&caption=System+diagram+showing+relationship+of+Chameleon%2C+I%2FO+devices%2C+processors%2C+and+PC.%0D
  
  www.xgamestation.com/view_media.php?path=products/chamavr/AL_prop_serial_figure_08_LRG.png&title=Chameleon%20AVR%208-Bit%20System&timestamp=&caption=Overview+of+multicore+workload+distribution+and+communications+link+between+main+message+dispatcher.%0D
  
  Right now, we have them for ultra cheap, they will probably go up $10-20 at some point.
  
  Andre'
• Joshua Hintze Posts: 4

  2009-11-20 04:36 edited 2009-11-20 04:36

  Also a wiki website based on the Chameleons is up. Content is currently being added but the full 250+ page manuals for both are on the website as well as the source code all open source.
  
  
  www.chameleon-dev.com