Parallax is expensive...

Vaati · 2009-04-02 18:42

Once again, I have a nearly green-less wallet, and its meager supply of $$ is not enough to get one of every gadget that Parallax offers.· Alas, this time, I set my sights on the SX-key.· even the SX Blitz is another $30 (excluding s&h) added to the endless expenses list.· Does anyone know of an alternative/homemade SX key/blitz?

Hmmm...· This should've been in the Sandbox...· Oh well.

Erik Friesen · 2009-04-02 21:47

I haven't done anything with the sx. However, if you should try to build something, I challenge you to keep track of your costs. In the end I can almost promise you that you will have spent the same or more money to make something at home. You can build your own propeller programmer, but once again is it really worth it?

Whit · 2009-04-02 21:56

You can always watch for the Daily Deal or check for it on the Parallax e-bay items.

Lastly you could post in the SX section to see if anyone wants to sell what you need.

With those suggestions in mind, everything I've ever gotten at Parallax was worth every penny - and that doesn't include these great forums and their super support.

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Whit+

"We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths." - Walt Disney

Post Edited (Whit) : 4/2/2009 11:11:39 PM GMT

rjo_ · 2009-04-02 23:14

In the end... what you have bought is worth more than you have spent. So, theoretically, this difference should be considered a capital gain and subjected to a tax[noparse]:)[/noparse] So, not only is your wallet empty... but when the IRS figures this out, you should be in arrears on your taxes[noparse]:)[/noparse]

Mike2545 · 2009-04-03 00:06

Yes, Parallax gadgets come with a cost. I started playing with the Stamp eight months ago, and have made several projects using them and other goodies that Parallax offers.

That said, last November I was seduced by an ad for the AVR Butterfly. I never could get a program to compile and load.
I was looking for a different micro controller, maybe one less expensive than the Stamp series. I went to AVR Freaks dot com, I never met a more rude, full of themselves, don't ask stupid questions bunch of people in my life.

Then last month I decided to try the PIC, I was moderately successful, who am I kidding I got one LED to flash because I cut and pasted someones code, I could not understand the process of what program to write in or what compiler to load with.
The PIC crowd I associate with was somewhat more helpful, but I could not be shown documentation or be given a straight answer.

I offered both the AVR & PIC to whomever would pay the shipping, on another forum site, Good riddance, I was glad to get those flops off my workbench.

That leads back to the price you pay for the Parallax line of items, you not only get a product built on the PIC you get great support and documentation galore. Yes, the Stamp has limitations that the PIC and AVR don't have, but go somewhere else, try another micro controller, start from scratch in another arena and I'll bet you'll be on your own. Around here, the people who design and build the items are trolling the forum answering your questions. That alone is worth the extra cost. At least to me.

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Mike2545

This message sent to you on 100% recycled electrons.

Post Edited (Mike2545) : 4/6/2009 1:05:03 PM GMT

Philldapill · 2009-04-03 00:10

I'm with Whit on the forums value. I know, Vaati, is talking about the actual products are expensive, but one of the best things Parallax offers IS the forum. I'm not saying their products aren't anything but exceptional, but when you look at the item cost vs. the item alone, then you could argue that they are a little pricey. However, when you consider the free forums and support that go along with all of their products, Rich and White are right... You are getting every penny's worth.

(Rich... keep it quit about the capital gains tax! I'm sure there are IRS agents lurking on this forum... Keep quit, would ya?) [noparse]:)[/noparse]

rjo_ · 2009-04-03 01:53

mums the word

Brian Carpenter · 2009-04-03 03:22

Vaati
where are you located? if you a are in the states, i will send you one

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It's Only A Stupid Question If You Have Not Googled It First!!

Oldbitcollector (Jeff) · 2009-04-03 03:22

@Vaati

This won't make your wallet feel better, but there is a definate quality difference in
the products that I see coming from Parallax and those from other sources.
A little more expensive perhaps, but it's reflected in high quality product and support.
Like most things, this is a "get what you pay for" world.

OBC

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New to the Propeller?

Visit the: The Propeller Pages @ Warranty Void.

davejames · 2009-04-03 15:55

Vaati,

I have to echo the other's sentiments about the support aspect from Parallax; it has been outstanding is this day of slip shod customer support.

I've been a technical instructor for over 12 years and Parallax manuals never cease to impress me. That, in itself, is enough to keep me coming back even though yes, there may be cheaper solutions available. The fact that I know I won't be ridiculed for asking a question is comforting. And I've even had one of Parallax's software engineers call me at home to see how I was fairing with a question I'd posted! Who does that anymore?!

Regards,

DJ

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Instead of:

"Those who can, do.· Those who can't, teach." (Shaw)
I prefer:
"Those who know, do.· Those who understand, teach." (Aristotle)
·

Vaati · 2009-04-03 17:58

Brian Carpenter said...
Vaati
where are you located? if you a are in the states, i will send you one

Awesome!!!· I'm in Ohio...·

Brian Carpenter · 2009-04-06 01:39

ok. thats a good start. can you pm me your shipping address an i will send you one.

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It's Only A Stupid Question If You Have Not Googled It First!!

Craig Eid · 2009-04-06 05:57

Vaati,

The key metric used in the business world to compare separate value propositions is·(Value/Total cost of ownership). Although the price of Parallax products is medium to high, the total cost of ownership for Parallax products, accounting for the costs of warranty, service and ease of use, is medium to low. Using a conservative value rating of medium yields a value proposition of medium to high – and Parallax will continue to be a profitable entity.

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························ Craig Eid

··········· Triad Research and Development
Electical Engineering Design and Consulting Services

··················· www.TriadRD.com

Moskog · 2009-04-06 07:39

Now it's been a Free Shipping Weekend again. I know there are things I want to buy that·cost at least $100 or so and I'm about to place an order. But reading the next line I understand it's for shipping in the continental US only. Disappointed I set aside the order-thoughts again. Living in Europe I know the shipping will add almost another $100 to the costs. Is there no way Parallax could send items a cheaper way? Use a smaller box or so when ordering small items, and cheaper rates.·Like when shopping on Ebay.·I don't·think of Parallax as an expensive web-shop but the shipping is too expensive.

mctrivia · 2009-04-07 03:13

to bad they won't ship to me for free [noparse]:([/noparse] Why is it always US only. I am only a few hundred km from the border.

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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) · 2009-04-07 03:57

It's that border that makes all the difference, I'm afraid. I recently had some PCBs fabbed in Canada. It wasn't a heavy or large box, but UPS ground was about $40; and that was before UPS's $40+ brokerage and other fees were added! (I can't imagine what it would've been without NAFTA!) It always seems like, whenever international borders are involved, there are a heckuva lot of nets in the stream!

-Phil

mctrivia · 2009-04-07 04:05

ya I wish places like parallax and 4pcb.com would ship by USPS. I am patient and it is a lot cheaper. There is a great PCB manufacturer down the street from me but they are only good for prototyping. minimum $15/board but can order minimum of 2

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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) · 2009-04-07 04:16

APCircuits (Calgary) is pretty sweet. I used to use them all the time, but FedEx (their preferred carrier) got to be a bit much and not all that dependable in the winter. (No refunds for "acts of god", which includes icie and snow, apparently.) My preferred production PCB fab is Lazer-Tech in Ontario — so long as a favorable exchange rate lasts.

-Phil

Chris Savage · 2009-04-07 05:17

Parallax does ship USPS if you select it.

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Chris Savage
Parallax Engineering

modemman · 2009-04-07 15:59

I do agree with everyone in this post. Many times I thought to myself "darn, 80 bucks for 26 variables in a world of multi-core processors for less - what am I, gone completely insane?". But then every time I turn on my what-used-to-be a Boe-Bot, whatever contraption I add to it, whatever wiring/programming mistakes I make, it just works! Or it doesn't, but I know that if I go ahead and read the PDFs carefully, I'll figure out why. Because I know it is supposed to work. I know for sure that it doesn't work because I made a mistake or because my design is not good, so I don't waste precious time asking myself if I got a broken part, or if the documentation is wrong or if I need to change the driver, add a new service pack, upgrade the firmware, etc. Instead, I spend my time solving the puzzle and learning from my mistakes. This makes me grow, advance and learn, instead of being frustrated with things that just don't work. All my life I was fascinated by robots and somehow never got into actually building them because I couldn't handle learning on platforms with bugs and no support, where you have to be a real genius to figure out the open source code and to circumvent the bugs. I haven't encountered any of that with the Parallax products. They just work. Everything works. Sorry I'm repeating myself over and over, but this is very rare today, I'm really impressed. I have kids now. I'm an engineer by training and an IT guy by trade. I understand technology, computers, software and space ships, but, while I can hold a soldering iron without burning myself, I'm definitely not an electronics whiz (the majority of my projects end with a little pop, a little spark, and a little smoke). I bought a Boe-Bot kit for myself and my kids, as I'm always trying to find technical things we can do together (other than flipping remote controls or shaking Wii controllers - not that there's anything wrong with that) and let me tell you, this was a major hit. My 7 year old is typing PBasic commands into an old laptop that is not good for anything else, but can handle Stamp stuff just fine - my wife is so baffled by it, she can't even understand the meaning of it. I've dealt with machines, hardware and software all my life, I've worked in research for a while, and nowhere I've seen such an abundance of literature, manuals, code examples and generally friendly crowd. I've learned my lessons over the years and am very conservative when it comes to asking questions in forums. I've been slammed with RTFM words of wisdom many times - but not here. I just looked at some of my posts and realized the silliness of my questions. Of course I know now how to run a servo. Of course I know now how to hook up an H-bridge. Heck, I even know how to hook up I2C devices and modify servos for constant rotation (although I broke a few...). But I didn't in February, I knew none of that. I have learned an incredible amount of things about electronics, microcontrollers, robotics, etc. and my brain is constantly stimulated with new puzzles, new ideas, and I'm passing all that to my kids. All this is possible because the people at Parallax dedicate themselves to teaching other people and because people who ask questions in this forum are treated with respect. Yes, the products are expensive, yes my wife will explode next time there will be a brown box with the Parallax logo at the door (LCD display is on its way, he, he....), but the fact that I was able to learn the basics (highlight on basics) of such a complex discipline as robotics in a mere month and the fact that I'll be able to pass that to my kids while having fun creating a robot (it's already doubled the size of the original Boe) makes it all worth it. So I guess the point was that in the price you pay for the little part, there are a few things built in extra: the guarantee that the device will work, very clearly written documentation, more documentation, and help from real people, with a passion for sharing knowledge. You can definitely tell that the folks at Parallax put a lot of love into all this. Just wanted to say Thank You, Parallax, and everyone else in this forum.

Vaati · 2009-04-07 16:21

Yes, I completely agree with you on the quality assurance.· Parallax does indeed have the highest quality electronic products I have ever seen.· Thanks to all of you for your thoughts, comments, and answers.· They were all very much appreciated.

mctrivia · 2009-04-07 18:19

APCircuit is only a few blocks from me and with pickup they are great. they even let me go after they close to get my boards but they want 14 each to make my propmod. will check out lasers price. my biggest problem right now is finding buyers.

i want to come to the expo in california but need to make some sales to get the money. sell stuff and offer free tutorials on home surface mount work would be fun.

I do agree paralax is the best.

and when I can offer an entire 8 core brain with supporting hardware for $30 they are not expensive.

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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.

Post Edited (mctrivia) : 4/7/2009 6:24:27 PM GMT

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) · 2009-04-07 18:38

How many boards did you have them quote? I've found that below a certain threshold, the total cost for 2n boards is often not much different from that of n boards. If the boards are small, you can also panelize them to save money, assuming you have a way of cutting them out. Some proto fabs disallow this or charge extra for it, though.

-Phil

mctrivia · 2009-04-07 18:48

10 or 100 made little difference. I did get a quote at $2 a board at 300 quantity with 3 month lead time for my small power supply. 4pcb charges extra for the panel but it would be half that including all expenses

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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.

Vaati · 2009-04-07 22:23

Wait, does the Propeller chip require a key or other peripheral in order to be programmed? i.e.; the SX Blitz/USB Key?

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briankb · 2009-04-07 22:32

I believe it depends on which development board you are using. There is a Prop board with and without the USB built in. From what I've read it seems a good idea to purchase the Prop Plug and buy the lower priced Prop boards.

The Propeller Proto Board $29.99 requires either a Prop Plug or Prop Clip.

The Propeller Proto Board USB $39.99 does not need a Prop Plug/Clip because of the built in USB connector.

Vaati · 2009-04-07 22:53

Cool! Thanks again everyone for all of the advice.

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mctrivia · 2009-04-08 00:07

get the one that requires the propplug(or better yet buy mine) the reason being there are some problems with the usb version reseting when the cable is removed. Other reason is you will eventually want more and it is cheaper to buy 1 propplug and 10 non usb protoboards.

Nice signature by the way. It is funny we have computed pi to over a trillion decimal places yet only 21 decimals is needed to calculate the circumference of the universe to within 1m accuracy.

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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.

SRLM · 2009-04-08 01:32

Personally, I don't like the prop-board without the USB connection. I'm afraid (perhaps unduly so) that I'll lose the plug or wear it out. I just wait until I the daily deal shows up, then buy whatever I need. I haven't heard about the reseting issue. Do you have a link?

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) · 2009-04-08 01:54

I attached a large orange tag to my Prop Plug for the very reason you cite. 'Haven't had to look for it since, and I have a really messy bench!

Regarding the reset issue, here is one thread. There are several others.

-Phil

Chris Savage · 2009-04-08 15:54

Hello,

The Propeller chip is programmed via serial interface. A schematic for building your own can be found at the following link. Take care.

http://www.parallax.com/tabid/254/Default.aspx

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Chris Savage
Parallax Engineering

Parallax is expensive...

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