Noobs please read this
Paul Baker
Posts: 6,351
···· I have been noticing a disturbing trend as of late. This is noobs and neophytes asking questions which don't have a simple answer; and as a favor, I or some other experienced member takes the time out of our schedule to goto the mat and do our best to explain it. Then there is no response from the·person asking the question.·This is not only poor netiquette, it is downright rude. If someone takes the effort to answer your question, show a little appreciation; most of us don't get paid to do this, we just like helping people less experienced. But do not take this for granted, if you are perceived as unappreciative we will stop answering your questions, and you don't want to end up in that situation. At this point, there is noone that I will refuse to answer questions for, but a few of you are very·near this point with me. A simple "thanks" will suffice, so just do it.
···· Something else Id like to try to discourage in the newest members is just getting your BOE-BOT or other parallax product, then you hit us with a barrage of questions. Not about a particular problem your having, but more of a "How do I..." question. Then after that is answered, you ask another "How do I..." that isn't related to the first question. I have noticed some members doing this when it is obvious that they have no·intention of following through with the idea. This is akin to crying wolf, and you run the risk of people not helping you anymore. "How do I..." questions are welcome, but be serious and sincere about using the information.·Don't ask hollow questions, this is obvious when you repeatedly ask questions about unrelated topics. If you are new, you should do all the experiments that came with the product and study the "What's a Microcontroller" text before asking any "How do I.." questions. This will give you the nessesary background to understand our response. It will also prevent you from looking like a fool when we tell you to go and read WAM because the answer to your question is clearly answered in the text.
···· I am not trying to keep you guys from asking questions, I really enjoy the challenge some questions pose, just be smart about asking them. First,·make an effort of finding·the information yourself; look through WAM, the Stamp Users Manual and any other text you think may have the answer, then use google to find your answer. If you still can't find an answer; by all means, post it and we will do our best to answer it, but we are not here as a substitute for your research.·Referencing sources in your question is the best way to communicate that you did your homework, like: "I want to do... I found this article (link), but I don't understand ___ in the article, can anyone help explain what they mean?"
···· If you follow these guidelines you will quickly gain respect from the experienced members and you will be much more likely to have your questions answered quickly and thoroughly.
Sincerely,
Paul
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·1+1=10
Post Edited (Paul Baker) : 8/2/2005 3:35:07 PM GMT
···· Something else Id like to try to discourage in the newest members is just getting your BOE-BOT or other parallax product, then you hit us with a barrage of questions. Not about a particular problem your having, but more of a "How do I..." question. Then after that is answered, you ask another "How do I..." that isn't related to the first question. I have noticed some members doing this when it is obvious that they have no·intention of following through with the idea. This is akin to crying wolf, and you run the risk of people not helping you anymore. "How do I..." questions are welcome, but be serious and sincere about using the information.·Don't ask hollow questions, this is obvious when you repeatedly ask questions about unrelated topics. If you are new, you should do all the experiments that came with the product and study the "What's a Microcontroller" text before asking any "How do I.." questions. This will give you the nessesary background to understand our response. It will also prevent you from looking like a fool when we tell you to go and read WAM because the answer to your question is clearly answered in the text.
···· I am not trying to keep you guys from asking questions, I really enjoy the challenge some questions pose, just be smart about asking them. First,·make an effort of finding·the information yourself; look through WAM, the Stamp Users Manual and any other text you think may have the answer, then use google to find your answer. If you still can't find an answer; by all means, post it and we will do our best to answer it, but we are not here as a substitute for your research.·Referencing sources in your question is the best way to communicate that you did your homework, like: "I want to do... I found this article (link), but I don't understand ___ in the article, can anyone help explain what they mean?"
···· If you follow these guidelines you will quickly gain respect from the experienced members and you will be much more likely to have your questions answered quickly and thoroughly.
Sincerely,
Paul
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·1+1=10
Post Edited (Paul Baker) : 8/2/2005 3:35:07 PM GMT
Comments
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Jon Williams
Applications Engineer, Parallax
See my posts to in this forum on June 30, and July 15th. I spent about 2 hours on that question, thinking of an elegant solution, then writing and testing the code in an actual hardware mock-up.
Not a single word of appreciation, or even whether my offering worked at all...just silence! Now there is a put-down!
There are now some names whose post I just don't bother reading, as clearly they themselves are not participating wholeheartedly in the process.
Peter (pjv)
Your experience, coupled with some experiences of mine is what prompted my post.
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·1+1=10
thank you for that from my side as well. Here are some more thoughts:
Many years ago, I did a lot telephone support for Clipper, a dBase compiler. More than often, customers called asking "I'm trying to link a C function with my Clipper application but it does not work. What am I doing wrong?" I mention this here as an example for one of the most un-specific questions possible. Therefore, "noobs", please be specific - don't ask "When I do this and that, I get an error message" - please specify the exact text of the error message, or an error number when this is shown.
On the other hand, I noticed enough posts with tons of code attached. Do these people really expect that someone takes the time getting familiar with the whole code in order to find the problems the user has? I personally don't feel too motivated to do that when I see code covering more than one screen. Therefore, please try to strip-down the code to the essentials - leave it just long enough that it reproduces your problem. Chances are great that you might find the reson for the problem by yourself while "shrinking" the code.
As long as it concerns the SX controllers, all "noobs" are invited to download the FAQ document that can be found in the "sticky" post of the SX-related forum section. Whenever I see a topic that might be of general interest for the FAQ, I make a note and add a new section when I have the time. So check for a new release of the FAQ document from time to time.
I noticed that the same or similar questions have been answered more than once in different threads. Therefore, before starting a new thread, it's a good idea to search through the existing ones - maybe, this already answers your question.
As Jon said - when starting a new thread, please give it a detailled, specific heading - this makes is a lot easier for others when searching the forum for a certain topic later.
Enough "preaching" ...
Maybe, you already know this story but I think this is a good place to tell it again:
A pilot in a small aircraft was totally lost in the Seattle area - bad weather condtions, clouds, rain, fog, almost out of fuel, most instruments dead, and passengers getting really nervous. He suddenly saw the top floors of a tall office building looming out of the clouds with lights burning in one room and an open window. He tried to pass the building as close as possible, opened the canopy window and shouted: "Where am I ?" The guy in the office shouted back: "You are in an aircraft !". The pilot immediately made a right turn, and performed a save landing after 5 miles. The passengers asked: "How did you find the airport ?", and the pilot answered: "Well, I asked the guy in the office a clear question, and I got an exact but absolutely useless answer. So this made me sure that this building was the Microsoft support center, and I know that the airport is located North, 5 miles away from that building".
Well, the Parallax building is not that tall, and it is not located in this area - therefore, you can be sure that you will always get high-quality support there and on the forum as well - just ask the right questions.
10-1 = 1
57005 = DEAD
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Greetings from Germany,
G
Your comments are spot on. I've gotten quite gun shy about answering the questions of novices* — especially the open-ended ones. It's not so much for any lack of gratitude, since I figure someone will benefit, even if the original petitioner does not. Rather, it's the supposed commitment entailed by even a quick answer — like dipping a toe into the La Brea Tar Pits.
It's interesting, but not terribly surprising, that most of those who've responded here are fellow choir members. Finding a way to get the message to newcomers is the tricky part. Once this thread scrolls off onto page 2, they won't even see it. If there were some way to present this message front and center, in a friendly way, when someone first registers, that would be great. I know the forum software is a closed system that no one wants to tinker with, but perhaps there's a way...
Thanks for putting into words what many of us are thinking of late.
-Phil
________________________
* I truly detest the terms "newbies" and "noobs". They seem to connote a sense of helplessness, which I fear is self-fulfilling at times. Not that I'm lauching a crusade here against their use. That would be a lost cause, I'm sure!
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- Stephen
"SX/B" dug it up and Replied to it, it was there just before kb1nrb's, but it's... vanished.
-Phil
Post Edited (Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)) : 9/20/2008 3:46:18 AM GMT
thanks,
Mark
When the thread is at the top, inevitably it would waste a lot of other peoples time to view the thread looking for new info but only to find one word "thanks" inside.
A noob in Propeller might be a genius in SX and Basic Stamp.
Just my small opinion.
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www.fd.com.my
www.mercedes.com.my
lots of peoples' time by posting a one word message. That one word message that you think
"wastes" so much time... may just keep that poster's questions answered in the future!
And it's a courtesy regardless of the situation. I wish more people did it -- here in the forums and
in the world in general.
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-Rusty-
--
Rusty Haddock <=> AE5AE
**Out yonder in the Van Alstyne (TX) Metropolitan Area**
Microsoft is to software what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
Thanks, William, for helping to keep this thread near the top.
Great post/observation/statement!
I wish you would make it a sticky in the "Basic Stamp" forum. Additionally, when us new people do ask appropriate questions that might cause·a different result, it would sure be nice if we posted the different result in the same thread we asked the question. Many times, we ask questions, get answers and are never able to read what happened, if anything.
I appreciate the folks at Parallax willing to donate their time to answering my low-level questions.
--Bill; forever a noob
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You are what you write.
IMHO: The response of 'Thanks' indicates that the person, that originally asked the question, actually read the responses, and maybe understood what the contributing members had to offer. This would indicate that the advice that was offered, was of 'some' value to them.
</SOAP_BOX_OFF>
When I stop learning I guess I'm DEAD, please dispose of properly!
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Mike
Post Edited (Mike Cook) : 9/23/2008 5:12:39 AM GMT
This particular post was in response to a particular person at the time that was asking stuff like "How do I get my robot to travel from the living room and into the kitchen get a soda and bring it back to me", then after a long answer got 0 response from the person. Most of us are more experienced now and probe the person a little first before diving into the problem when its one of those "How do I get my robot to understand my spoken commands" type of open questions.
I still feel it is polite when someone helps you to give a response (did it work, didn't it, are you giving up because it's more difficult than you thought?). With the activity on the forums, message bump isn't a huge issue and heavy forums like the Propeller see it dissappear off the front page a day or two later. Do it repeatedly and of course we'll respond, but a single thanks won't get slapped down.
I'm not sure making such a post sticky would make any difference. The vast majority of new members have banner blindness and don't even notice the sticky threads. Case in point the "Improved Search Engine Available For Parallax Forums & Website" thread is front and center in the Forum Support forum, yet we constantly get complaints our search engine doesn't work. I've even seen somone post this complaint in the Support Forum, and he just looked right past the sticky.
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Paul Baker
Propeller Applications Engineer
Parallax, Inc.
Post Edited (Paul Baker (Parallax)) : 9/23/2008 1:39:42 AM GMT
It takes nothing away from the person that started a project, worked hard to get it done, asked for help on the difficult bits and finally completed the task with the kind help of forum members. I've actually seen a number of these types of posts recently and I just wanted to say that it was very gratifying to see that kind of "closure" on a thread (even if I was just reading along and not actively participating).
Duffer