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another basic math question — Parallax Forums

another basic math question

japerjaper Posts: 105
edited 2005-11-27 15:42 in Learn with BlocklyProp
hello,

trying to make sure that my math is right before i go on to end of chapter 6 basic analog and digital
______________

C= .01uf
Ra = 3.5 k ohm
Rb = 2 kohm
F = 2 hz
____________

using the formula to predict the 555 Timer's Frequecy
Do i drop the multipiler of the resistors, then add them to the final answers ?
as
F = 1.45/[noparse][[/noparse]C*(Ra + 2Rb) this seeems to come up right if do
same on Pulse width calculation
a) 0.69 x C x (Ra + Rb)
and on
Time off
b) 0.69 x C x Ra

while using a scope "not real time" this come up right every time +-10%
why do i have to drop the resistors multiplier ?

Comments

  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2005-10-10 19:41
    f·= 1.44 / C (Ra + 2Rb)

    and:
    ····· C· =· 0.01uf
    ····· Ra = 3.5 k ohm [noparse][[/noparse]3,500]
    ····· Rb = 2 kohm···· [noparse][[/noparse]2,000]

    f·= 1.44 / C (Ra + 2Rb)
    f =·1.44 / C (Ra + 4,000)
    f = 1.44 / C (3,500 + 4,000)
    f = 1.44 / C (7,500)
    f = 1.44 / 0.00000001 (7,500)
    f = 1.44 /·0.000075
    f = 19,200 Hz

    The period of 19,200 Hz is 52 usec (0.000052 sec)

    Timea·(time HIGH) =·0.69 x C x (Ra + Rb)
    ························ =·0.69 * 0.00000001 * 5500
    ························ = 0.69 * 0.000055
    ························ = 0.00003795 sec

    Timeb·(time LOW)·= 0.69 x C x Rb·· [noparse][[/noparse]it's Rb, NOT Ra]
    ························ = 0.69 * 0.00000001 * 2000
    ························ = 0.69 * 0.000035
    ························ = 0.0000138 sec

    Timea + Timeb = period
    0.000038 sec + 0.0000138 sec = period
    ···························0.0000518 = period

    So, clearly, it's not "2 Hz", but nearly 20 kHz.

    Please take a look at the Picture that I've attached.· Is it at all like your output?
    263 x 330 - 10K
  • Bruce BatesBruce Bates Posts: 3,045
    edited 2005-10-10 19:46
    Japer -

    Although this doesn't answer your question directly, you may find the attached 555 Timer Calculator handy.

    Regards,

    Bruce Bates
  • japerjaper Posts: 105
    edited 2005-10-10 20:37
    thanks bruce
    obviosly i am looking at my cap rating wrong
    everything you calculate is comparitible to my caculations
    except the "cap valve"
    i surely see where my weakness is in this formula
    as far as time low
    You are right, wrote the formula down wrong in the post
    Thanks for Straighting me out
    japer
  • japerjaper Posts: 105
    edited 2005-10-11 10:44
    hello
    I want to thank bruce again for the time and effort put into his post.
    the detail are incredible ,I feel i did not properly thank bruce for his effort

    also i am an idiot
    first the cap was 0.1 mf,and that's how i calculated it ,duh
    i should have calculated at .000001
    so i bought a book from radio shack and with the stamp program books
    i should be able to cut down on these stupid questions

    thank's again bruce and Parallax forum for your patience
    japer
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2005-10-12 14:39
    · bruce?
  • Bruce BatesBruce Bates Posts: 3,045
    edited 2005-10-12 14:59
    PJ -

    You rang? smile.gif

    In all fairness, and giving credit where it IS DUE, YOU were certainly the one who offered all the math assistance and examples. I was merely the guy who offered a 555 timer calculator program.

    I fear Jasper mixed up our replies to him. No harm or slight intended, I'm sure.

    Regards,

    Bruce Bates
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2005-10-12 19:54
    I looked over them all, but there isn't a 'heavy sigh' emoticon.
  • japerjaper Posts: 105
    edited 2005-10-28 21:57
    hello
    I want to thank PJ Allen ,I feel i did not properly thank PJ Allen for his effort

    also i am an idiot


    first the cap was 0.1 mf,and that's how i calculated it ,duh
    i should have calculated at .000001
    so i bought a book from radio shack and with the stamp program books
    i should be able to cut down on these stupid questions

    thank's again PJ Allen and Parallax forum for your patience

    japer the idiot
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2005-10-29 02:04
    · You might consider getting a calculator with scientific notation.· With that, you won't have to punch in all those leading zeros.· [noparse][[/noparse]Remember, it's only two months till Christmas.]···

    · By the way, the Calculator that comes with "Windows" has·scientific notation·(View, *Scientific).· So, instead of typing in 0.000001 for 0.1 uF, you'd type 1, Exp, 6, and then the·+/- (change sign) key.· And with that you can also "translate" numbers from hex, binary, octal, and decimal.

    · 1000pF is a lot easier to handle as "1000 e-12" than 0.000000001
  • japerjaper Posts: 105
    edited 2005-10-29 09:33
    hello
    thanks PJ Allen
    so these calculators can translate binary numbers. this was what i was looking for,
    also i have another basic math question coming up. i am tying to work it myself
    but so far the example in the book shows an ending digit of 3 and i'm dealing with
    5 and 1
    you want a crack at it ?

    japer
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2005-10-29 12:24
    Sure, let's have at it.· hop.gif

    Let's have all the details, no omissions.· wink.gif



    (BTW, just to clarify further, some scientific calculators may have the binary-hex-decimal conversion feature/s, but the "Windows" calculator definitely does.· So, if you go shopping for one, make sure.)
  • Ryan ClarkeRyan Clarke Posts: 738
    edited 2005-11-02 16:34
    Just get an 'old faithful', the HP48GX [noparse];)[/noparse]

    Ryan

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Ryan Clarke
    Parallax Tech Support

    RClarke@Parallax.com
  • japerjaper Posts: 105
    edited 2005-11-16 00:32
    hello
    Mr, PJ Allen
    Sorry I have not Responded to you Lately
    Ok here's the fomula unfortunaltly i do not know how to lower case or upper case the text as you did
    by naming the formula you will proably know it well
    "Exponetial Decay"
    the Problem Iam Having is when the formula is Broken Down into Properties of logarithms were

    t
    = 1n( Vdd) what is the " 1n" i found the "E" as = to 2.718 i know this is not the exact formula but having trouble with "1n"
    R X C
    Vinput

    thanks
    japer
  • edited 2005-11-16 05:22
    I think it'll be a little easier to understand if you use an L instead of a 1, as in LN or more commonly, ln.· It's the abbreviation for natural logarithm (often spoken "natural log").· Here's a link to a reference page·about it:

    · http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Natural_logarithm

    My take on the natural log is that it answers the question, "what value do I have to raise e (2.718...) to the power of·to get this value".

    For example, e2 = e X e ≈ 2.718 X 2.718 ≈ 7.389.·

    So, if you want to know the natural log·of 7.389,·the answer is 2.· In equation form, that's:

    · ln(7.839)·≈ 2

    Another way to say it is, "the natural log gives you the exponent you had to raise e to to get the value."· In the case of 7.839, we have to raise e to a power of 2 to get that value.· The exponent is 2, so that's the answer of ln(7.839).

    If you have a scientific calculator, there should be an eX button on it to raise e to various powers, and a ln (or sometimes LN) button to take the natural log of your result, which should get you back to the value of X.

    If you're concerned about Basic Analog and Digital v1.3, pages 150 to 151, open up the attached PDF, and then continue reading.· The attached PDF breaks those equations into smaller steps, each one numbered to the right.·

    We started with equation 1.·

    Equation 2 takes the natural log of both sides of the equation.· That's fair game so long as everything you take the natural log of is greater than or equal to zero.·

    Getting from equation 2 to equation 3 uses a property of logs that goes like this: log(a X b) = log(a) + log(b).· The same applies for ln(a X b), it's equal to ln(a) + ln(b)

    Getting from equation 3 to equation 4 uses the property of logs at the beginning of this post.· If you take the natural log of e raised to some exponent, the answer is the number that was e's exponent.

    Getting from equation 4 to 5 is the rule that adding a negative value is the same as subtracting that value.

    Next, add t/RC - ln(VP15) to both sides of equation 5, and you'll get equation 6.

    To get from equation 6 to 7, there's a property of logs that's similar to the step 2 to 3 property: log(a/b) - log(a) - log(b).·

    Post Edited (Andy Lindsay (Parallax)) : 11/16/2005 5:31:41 AM GMT
  • japerjaper Posts: 105
    edited 2005-11-27 15:42
    hello Andy Lindsay
    Thanks for breaking down the formula for me.
    japer
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