PIC, AVR, or BS?
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Posts: 46,084
Hi,
I'm interested in building a 1st project and am looking for the
appropriate platform. I don't want to spend megabucks on compilers,
programmers etc. In all, I would be willing to shell out about $75 from
start to finish.
Requirements:
4-6 LED outputs
4-6 switch inputs
4-5 A/D inputs (is 4 the magic # here?)
1 Piezo speaker output
I could do it in assy. but would prefer Basic (or C). If I go with one
of the Basic-supported devices, then how does the capacity of the
device relate to lines of Basic code? Does a 100 line Basic program
compile into 1.5k of used up memory in my device? Lots of gray areas
here.
I've been told that a PIC (16F876) would be the perfect device given
the I/O I'm looking for. I start looking closer at BASIC STAMPs and
find that an AVR might be best. Could someone give me a short
description of the differences between PICs, AVRs, and BSs? I've only
seen A/D I/O on the PICs, not on the AVRs or BSs. I'd expect them all
to have A/D inputs.
Thanks in advance for any advice you could provide.
Rance (trying not to talk out the side of my head)
I'm interested in building a 1st project and am looking for the
appropriate platform. I don't want to spend megabucks on compilers,
programmers etc. In all, I would be willing to shell out about $75 from
start to finish.
Requirements:
4-6 LED outputs
4-6 switch inputs
4-5 A/D inputs (is 4 the magic # here?)
1 Piezo speaker output
I could do it in assy. but would prefer Basic (or C). If I go with one
of the Basic-supported devices, then how does the capacity of the
device relate to lines of Basic code? Does a 100 line Basic program
compile into 1.5k of used up memory in my device? Lots of gray areas
here.
I've been told that a PIC (16F876) would be the perfect device given
the I/O I'm looking for. I start looking closer at BASIC STAMPs and
find that an AVR might be best. Could someone give me a short
description of the differences between PICs, AVRs, and BSs? I've only
seen A/D I/O on the PICs, not on the AVRs or BSs. I'd expect them all
to have A/D inputs.
Thanks in advance for any advice you could provide.
Rance (trying not to talk out the side of my head)
Comments
I'm also just starting out with micro controllers.
What I've found is that the pics require very
expensive interpreter software. The AVR has
inexpensive interpreter but all models are not readily
available in my area. What both lack is what the stamp
has and that is a huge amount of designs already
worked through and fantastic support online. If you
read other news groups you will find that the answers
that are offered as help are like a wiener feeding
another wiener kraft dinner. There may be a lot of
bulk but it is mainly inert and lacking of substance.
The stamp costs more initially but thats where it
ends. All documetation is shared and there are a lot
of interface boards available right here. Follow this
and other groups for a while and see what I mean.
Regards
--- Rance/Pat <rupps@t...> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm interested in building a 1st project and am
> looking for the
> appropriate platform. I don't want to spend
> megabucks on compilers,
> programmers etc. In all, I would be willing to shell
> out about $75 from
> start to finish.
>
> Requirements:
>
> 4-6 LED outputs
> 4-6 switch inputs
> 4-5 A/D inputs (is 4 the magic # here?)
> 1 Piezo speaker output
>
> I could do it in assy. but would prefer Basic (or
> C). If I go with one
> of the Basic-supported devices, then how does the
> capacity of the
> device relate to lines of Basic code? Does a 100
> line Basic program
> compile into 1.5k of used up memory in my device?
> Lots of gray areas
> here.
>
> I've been told that a PIC (16F876) would be the
> perfect device given
> the I/O I'm looking for. I start looking closer at
> BASIC STAMPs and
> find that an AVR might be best. Could someone give
> me a short
> description of the differences between PICs, AVRs,
> and BSs? I've only
> seen A/D I/O on the PICs, not on the AVRs or BSs.
> I'd expect them all
> to have A/D inputs.
>
> Thanks in advance for any advice you could provide.
>
> Rance (trying not to talk out the side of my
> head)
>
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed.
> Text in the Subject and Body of the message will be
> ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
http://calendar.yahoo.com
Here is my take on it, your mileage may vary.
Stamps are great for getting into microcontrollers. They are rock solid,
easy to use and program, and take a lot of abuse. As well, Parallax's
support is top notch, and this forum is great resource as well. The Stamp
can be easily programmed in circuit. This is a big plus.
PICs are very cool. They have more built in features like ADCs. They are
faster. They are also quirky, require MUCH more time poring through
documentation, and many more pitfalls await the beginner. For example, I
didn't know that on some PICs, that the chip comes with an individual
oscillator calibration. If you program the chip without writing down the
calibration, and marking the chip, you have to figure out how to manually
recalibrate. And then they don't seem to work quite as well. Ugh! Guess why
I know that ;-)
The better BASIC compliers are expensive, and you have to make or buy a
programmer. Some PICS can be programmed in-circuit, but it is a PITA. They
are also more prone to mysterious problems. Never order just one PIC when
starting a project, get a few.
I use both PICs and Stamps. It depends on what I am doing. Firstly, I
develop most of my more complex projects on a Stamp. Then I may migrate the
project over to a PIC. Smaller projects, like a hot tub controller I made
recently, I used a PIC from the start. It's a very simple job, and I don't
want to waste an expensive Stamp on it. One thing I wish Parallax would do
is come out with a smaller micro, like the PIC12F675. 8 pin dip, can run at
20mHz, has 4 channels of ADC. Perfect for a hut tub controller and all sorts
of small jobs, and dirt cheap.
On the other hand, I am working on a hydrogen fuel cell powered robot with
some high school students. I wouldn't *think* of using a PIC for this. The
time consumed teaching students how to use PICs just isn't worth it, and
then there are the support and in-circuit programming benefits too.
As to AVRs, I just got my hands on a development board and programmer. I'll
know more soon ;-)
So, I would say that if this is your first micro, you can't beat a Stamp.
Jonathan
www.madlabs.info
Original Message
From: "Rance/Pat " <rupps@t...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 5:09 PM
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] PIC, AVR, or BS?
> Hi,
>
> I'm interested in building a 1st project and am looking for the
> appropriate platform. I don't want to spend megabucks on compilers,
> programmers etc. In all, I would be willing to shell out about $75 from
> start to finish.
>
> Requirements:
>
> 4-6 LED outputs
> 4-6 switch inputs
> 4-5 A/D inputs (is 4 the magic # here?)
> 1 Piezo speaker output
>
> I could do it in assy. but would prefer Basic (or C). If I go with one
> of the Basic-supported devices, then how does the capacity of the
> device relate to lines of Basic code? Does a 100 line Basic program
> compile into 1.5k of used up memory in my device? Lots of gray areas
> here.
>
> I've been told that a PIC (16F876) would be the perfect device given
> the I/O I'm looking for. I start looking closer at BASIC STAMPs and
> find that an AVR might be best. Could someone give me a short
> description of the differences between PICs, AVRs, and BSs? I've only
> seen A/D I/O on the PICs, not on the AVRs or BSs. I'd expect them all
> to have A/D inputs.
>
> Thanks in advance for any advice you could provide.
>
> Rance (trying not to talk out the side of my head)
>
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
pci16F84, more memory and a built in UART. Best of all, MCS makes BASCOM,
which is BASIC for AVRs. It's real easy to use and FREE - the demo version
will program the 2313 with no problem. It also has a downloader/programmer
that will program from the BASCOM IDE. The schematic for the programmer is
in the HELP file. It only needs a few resistors and a DB25 cable. It's a
real easy alternative.
chris in napa
Original Message
From: "Jonathan Peakall" <jpeakall@m...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] PIC, AVR, or BS?
> Rance,
>
> Here is my take on it, your mileage may vary.
>
> Stamps are great for getting into microcontrollers. They are rock solid,
> easy to use and program, and take a lot of abuse. As well, Parallax's
> support is top notch, and this forum is great resource as well. The Stamp
> can be easily programmed in circuit. This is a big plus.
>
> PICs are very cool. They have more built in features like ADCs. They are
> faster. They are also quirky, require MUCH more time poring through
> documentation, and many more pitfalls await the beginner. For example, I
> didn't know that on some PICs, that the chip comes with an individual
> oscillator calibration. If you program the chip without writing down the
> calibration, and marking the chip, you have to figure out how to manually
> recalibrate. And then they don't seem to work quite as well. Ugh! Guess
why
> I know that ;-)
>
> The better BASIC compliers are expensive, and you have to make or buy a
> programmer. Some PICS can be programmed in-circuit, but it is a PITA. They
> are also more prone to mysterious problems. Never order just one PIC when
> starting a project, get a few.
>
> I use both PICs and Stamps. It depends on what I am doing. Firstly, I
> develop most of my more complex projects on a Stamp. Then I may migrate
the
> project over to a PIC. Smaller projects, like a hot tub controller I made
> recently, I used a PIC from the start. It's a very simple job, and I don't
> want to waste an expensive Stamp on it. One thing I wish Parallax would do
> is come out with a smaller micro, like the PIC12F675. 8 pin dip, can run
at
> 20mHz, has 4 channels of ADC. Perfect for a hut tub controller and all
sorts
> of small jobs, and dirt cheap.
>
> On the other hand, I am working on a hydrogen fuel cell powered robot with
> some high school students. I wouldn't *think* of using a PIC for this. The
> time consumed teaching students how to use PICs just isn't worth it, and
> then there are the support and in-circuit programming benefits too.
>
> As to AVRs, I just got my hands on a development board and programmer.
I'll
> know more soon ;-)
>
> So, I would say that if this is your first micro, you can't beat a Stamp.
>
> Jonathan
>
> www.madlabs.info
>
>
Original Message
> From: "Rance/Pat " <rupps@t...>
> To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 5:09 PM
> Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] PIC, AVR, or BS?
>
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm interested in building a 1st project and am looking for the
> > appropriate platform. I don't want to spend megabucks on compilers,
> > programmers etc. In all, I would be willing to shell out about $75 from
> > start to finish.
> >
> > Requirements:
> >
> > 4-6 LED outputs
> > 4-6 switch inputs
> > 4-5 A/D inputs (is 4 the magic # here?)
> > 1 Piezo speaker output
> >
> > I could do it in assy. but would prefer Basic (or C). If I go with one
> > of the Basic-supported devices, then how does the capacity of the
> > device relate to lines of Basic code? Does a 100 line Basic program
> > compile into 1.5k of used up memory in my device? Lots of gray areas
> > here.
> >
> > I've been told that a PIC (16F876) would be the perfect device given
> > the I/O I'm looking for. I start looking closer at BASIC STAMPs and
> > find that an AVR might be best. Could someone give me a short
> > description of the differences between PICs, AVRs, and BSs? I've only
> > seen A/D I/O on the PICs, not on the AVRs or BSs. I'd expect them all
> > to have A/D inputs.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any advice you could provide.
> >
> > Rance (trying not to talk out the side of my head)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
and
> Body of the message will be ignored.
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
the right decision.
Later you may want to migrate to a PIC if you need interrupt or
internal timer.
But BS2 is the perfect place to begin because of the support and
information that is freely available.
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Rance/Pat " <rupps@t...> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm interested in building a 1st project and am looking for the
> appropriate platform. I don't want to spend megabucks on compilers,
> programmers etc. In all, I would be willing to shell out about $75
from
> start to finish.
>
> Requirements:
>
> 4-6 LED outputs
> 4-6 switch inputs
> 4-5 A/D inputs (is 4 the magic # here?)
> 1 Piezo speaker output
>
> I could do it in assy. but would prefer Basic (or C). If I go with
one
> of the Basic-supported devices, then how does the capacity of the
> device relate to lines of Basic code? Does a 100 line Basic program
> compile into 1.5k of used up memory in my device? Lots of gray
areas
> here.
>
> I've been told that a PIC (16F876) would be the perfect device
given
> the I/O I'm looking for. I start looking closer at BASIC STAMPs and
> find that an AVR might be best. Could someone give me a short
> description of the differences between PICs, AVRs, and BSs? I've
only
> seen A/D I/O on the PICs, not on the AVRs or BSs. I'd expect them
all
> to have A/D inputs.
>
> Thanks in advance for any advice you could provide.
>
> Rance (trying not to talk out the side of my head)
jim
http://www.geocities.com/jimforkin2003/
Original Message
From: Rance/Pat [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=7T_hpbbZv1jJB9-Vo-4r_S7nUeQNwMtlDWEaN4FNJgeuCUbd2XNfGORfwiVQZKwxJc3m9M4jWDUI05_e]rupps@t...[/url
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 8:10 PM
To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] PIC, AVR, or BS?
Hi,
I'm interested in building a 1st project and am looking for the
appropriate platform. I don't want to spend megabucks on compilers,
programmers etc. In all, I would be willing to shell out about $75 from
start to finish.
Requirements:
4-6 LED outputs
4-6 switch inputs
4-5 A/D inputs (is 4 the magic # here?)
1 Piezo speaker output
I could do it in assy. but would prefer Basic (or C). If I go with one
of the Basic-supported devices, then how does the capacity of the
device relate to lines of Basic code? Does a 100 line Basic program
compile into 1.5k of used up memory in my device? Lots of gray areas
here.
I've been told that a PIC (16F876) would be the perfect device given
the I/O I'm looking for. I start looking closer at BASIC STAMPs and
find that an AVR might be best. Could someone give me a short
description of the differences between PICs, AVRs, and BSs? I've only
seen A/D I/O on the PICs, not on the AVRs or BSs. I'd expect them all
to have A/D inputs.
Thanks in advance for any advice you could provide.
Rance (trying not to talk out the side of my head)
To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
basicstampede@y... writes:
> I recommend starting with Basic Stamp 2. I did, and I know I made
> the right decision.
>
> Later you may want to migrate to a PIC if you need interrupt or
> internal timer.
>
> But BS2 is the perfect place to begin because of the support and
> information that is freely available.
All very true!!!!
[noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
stamp for starting out on. AVRs are excellent but had I started with them, I
probably would have given up trying in the first month. There are a lot of
conceptual hurdles that are fairly easy to get over using the stamp and
Parallax's un-rivaled support. I used the Earth Measurements kit with a
board of education and BS2 to get started. It was pricey but I'm glad I
spent the bux.
You can do without the board of education and use a breadboard instead. If I
had it to do all over again, I probably wouldn't have purchased the BOE.
There are schematics around for hooking up power and the programming/serial
cable.
Stamps don't have ADC built in but the Earth measurements kit demonstrates
RC time as a form of ADC - works quite well actually. You don't mention what
the ADC is for though so its hard to recommend anything. I've found that the
built in 10 bit ADC functionality of the AVRs is pretty well useless for my
application. 10 bits isn't quite enough resolution and there isn't enough
control over the sampled voltage range e.g. 0-2.5v is the minimum and the 0
isn't negotiable. I use a TLC2543 ADC instead. 12 bits, 11 channels, has
both ref+ and ref- ability (supply both a high and a low voltage reference
so you can sample between the two, instead of the low end having to be
zero).
If you don't need that much resolution for your ADC, there are plenty of
dirt cheap 8 bit ADCs out there. ADC08031 is a single channel 8 bit and it
has a 4 channel equivelent (ADC08034 of course). There are very common,
every electronic store/supplier should have plenty in stock. Here's the
datasheet http://cache.national.com/ds/AD/ADC08031.pdf
Check the parallax website before you purchase anything as well. They have
tons of online PDF experiments available free.
Remember, microcontrollers aren't like home computers. You have no reason to
purchase one type and "stick" with it forever. They're consumable in fact.
Make a project and its gone, you need another for the next project. No
reason the next project *must* be the same controller.
Meridian 59 is back! Sacred Haven - server 200
www.skotos.net
Original Message
From: "Rance/Pat" <rupps@t...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 5:09 PM
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] PIC, AVR, or BS?
> Hi,
>
> I'm interested in building a 1st project and am looking for the
> appropriate platform. I don't want to spend megabucks on compilers,
> programmers etc. In all, I would be willing to shell out about $75 from
> start to finish.
>
> Requirements:
>
> 4-6 LED outputs
> 4-6 switch inputs
> 4-5 A/D inputs (is 4 the magic # here?)
> 1 Piezo speaker output
>
> I could do it in assy. but would prefer Basic (or C). If I go with one
> of the Basic-supported devices, then how does the capacity of the
> device relate to lines of Basic code? Does a 100 line Basic program
> compile into 1.5k of used up memory in my device? Lots of gray areas
> here.
>
> I've been told that a PIC (16F876) would be the perfect device given
> the I/O I'm looking for. I start looking closer at BASIC STAMPs and
> find that an AVR might be best. Could someone give me a short
> description of the differences between PICs, AVRs, and BSs? I've only
> seen A/D I/O on the PICs, not on the AVRs or BSs. I'd expect them all
> to have A/D inputs.
>
> Thanks in advance for any advice you could provide.
>
> Rance (trying not to talk out the side of my head)
>
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>