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More Current out of 7805

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2000-03-30 00:50 in General Discussion
Hi,

My project requires a peak current of about 1.5 amps. I need a regulated
source that I can put together quickly out of parts I have. Can I put to
7805s in parallel t get more current? How well do they share or is there
some other way of doing it?

Thanks
Mike

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2000-03-28 21:06
    Mike,

    > My project requires a peak current of about 1.5 amps. I need a regulated
    > source that I can put together quickly out of parts I have. Can I put to
    > 7805s in parallel t get more current? How well do they share or is there
    > some other way of doing it?

    I may be incorrect, but I don't think you can parallel 7805's. How
    long is your peak current spike? How much current does your project need
    in quiescent mode? 1 Amp current (rated value) for a 7805 will require
    a good heatsink and good air circulation to avoid letting the smoke out.
    You may want to go with a TO3 version 5V regulator, even still. If your
    1.5Amp spike is a transient, a good cap to buffer that spike will handle
    it. It just depends.

    DLC
    --
    ============================================================================
    * Dennis Clark Aristocrat at heart dlc@v... www.verinet.com/~dlc *
    * Be well, do good work, and stay in touch -- Garrison Keillor *
    ============================================================================
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2000-03-28 21:35
    This was posted to another list by Tom Umble <ctech_pro@y...>
    but I'm sure he won't mind if I put it here:

    <<I agree, don't use two devices in parallel.
    Here is a simple circuit that will give you all the
    current you will ever want.
    Use a PNP transistor, of sufficient current to meet
    your needs, For a cool 2 amps use a TIP-30.
    connect the emitter (pin3) to B+. connect the
    collector to "load" (pin2). Connect the base to your
    7805 regulator IC (pin1 of TIP-30)to (pin1 of 7805).
    Connect the output of the regulator(pin3)to collector
    of TIP-30 (pin2). Ground the 7805 (pin2). Add .1 caps
    to emitter and collector of transistor. Place a 470uf
    cap to Collector (pin2) of transistor. This is clean
    and cool, with minimum parts.
    A schematics would have been better, but hope this
    helps.>>

    Duncan
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2000-03-28 22:23
    Mike

    On paper, parallel 7805s don't share the load well at all; the one with the
    higher output voltage takes most of the load and the other one loafs. But
    do you really care? As long as your output voltage is reasonably close, it
    really doesn't matter which device is carrying the load. I ran a set of
    three 7805s like this one time specifically to see if I could induce a
    thermal shutdown oscillation (The overachiever that takes most of the load
    gets too hot, shuts down, passes the load to the next guy until he shuts
    down etc.) I never did get it to misbehave; it worked perfectly every time.

    I'd have to think it would be a better idea for production to go to a
    larger regulator like the LM138 or LM196, but that violates the premise of
    putting it together quickly out of parts you have.

    Whatever you do, you're going to have to deal with the power dissipation
    question, unless the 1.5 Amp peak current is short and/or low duty cycle.
    (if it IS short and/or low duty cycle, you might get by with just a big
    capacitor on the output). If you need more help, try to give us a little
    more information as to the duration and frequency of the current peak as
    well as any quiescent load you might have.

    It sounds like you're not proposing to put this into production, so I give
    you permission to try paralleling the 7805s; it's not a pretty solution,
    but I think it will work, and pretty sure it won't hurt anything.

    Bob U.

    At 02:15 PM 3/28/00 -0500, you wrote:
    >Hi,
    >
    >My project requires a peak current of about 1.5 amps. I need a regulated
    >source that I can put together quickly out of parts I have. Can I put to
    >7805s in parallel t get more current? How well do they share or is there
    >some other way of doing it?
    >
    >Thanks
    >Mike
    >
    >
    >
    >eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/basicstamps/
    >http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2000-03-29 01:52
    > > My project requires a peak current of about 1.5 amps. I need a
    regulated
    > > source that I can put together quickly out of parts I have. Can I put
    to
    > > 7805s in parallel t get more current? How well do they share or is
    there
    > > some other way of doing it?

    snip

    I don't think its a great idea to parallel 7805's, its been done, most times
    it works,
    some times it doesn't, and Dennis is right about a large heat sink, and
    plenty of air.

    try the lm323k, its a to-3 case, its preset at 5 volts, the case is ground,
    and its rated
    at 3 amps continuous.
    they are available from most sources.

    funny one Newark electronics $ 0.36 each while remaining stock lasts.

    regular
    jdr $ 2.99
    jameco $ 2.95

    strange one digi-key $ 10.50 each.

    just goes to show, shopping around can save you some money.
    I got these prices by using www.findchips.com

    norm
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2000-03-29 02:39
    I am trying to spin up a hard drive and power a breadboard packed with
    components. I tried to parallel them and the voltage was about 4.9v but was
    unsure if it could slip at anytime. It will probably be at about 1.5 amps
    for 8 - 10 seconds until it spins up then drop to about .5 - .8

    Thanks
    Mike
    Original Message
    From: "Bob Underwood" <bobu@n...>
    To: <basicstamps@egroups.com>
    Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 4:23 PM
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: More Current out of 7805


    > Mike
    >
    > On paper, parallel 7805s don't share the load well at all; the one with
    the
    > higher output voltage takes most of the load and the other one loafs. But
    > do you really care? As long as your output voltage is reasonably close, it
    > really doesn't matter which device is carrying the load. I ran a set of
    > three 7805s like this one time specifically to see if I could induce a
    > thermal shutdown oscillation (The overachiever that takes most of the load
    > gets too hot, shuts down, passes the load to the next guy until he shuts
    > down etc.) I never did get it to misbehave; it worked perfectly every
    time.
    >
    > I'd have to think it would be a better idea for production to go to a
    > larger regulator like the LM138 or LM196, but that violates the premise of
    > putting it together quickly out of parts you have.
    >
    > Whatever you do, you're going to have to deal with the power dissipation
    > question, unless the 1.5 Amp peak current is short and/or low duty cycle.
    > (if it IS short and/or low duty cycle, you might get by with just a big
    > capacitor on the output). If you need more help, try to give us a little
    > more information as to the duration and frequency of the current peak as
    > well as any quiescent load you might have.
    >
    > It sounds like you're not proposing to put this into production, so I give
    > you permission to try paralleling the 7805s; it's not a pretty solution,
    > but I think it will work, and pretty sure it won't hurt anything.
    >
    > Bob U.
    >
    > At 02:15 PM 3/28/00 -0500, you wrote:
    > >Hi,
    > >
    > >My project requires a peak current of about 1.5 amps. I need a regulated
    > >source that I can put together quickly out of parts I have. Can I put to
    > >7805s in parallel t get more current? How well do they share or is there
    > >some other way of doing it?
    > >
    > >Thanks
    > >Mike
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/basicstamps/
    > >http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
    >
    >
    >

    >
    > eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/basicstamps
    > www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2000-03-29 02:44
    This is a "standard" and often-used method of boosting the output current of
    a regulator. If you have a PNP laying around, I would go with it.

    Good luck,
    Ray McArthur

    Original Message
    From: <orthner@s...>
    To: <basicstamps@egroups.com>
    Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 3:35 PM
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: More Current out of 7805


    > This was posted to another list by Tom Umble <ctech_pro@y...>
    > but I'm sure he won't mind if I put it here:
    >
    > <<I agree, don't use two devices in parallel.
    > Here is a simple circuit that will give you all the
    > current you will ever want.
    > Use a PNP transistor, of sufficient current to meet
    > your needs, For a cool 2 amps use a TIP-30.
    > connect the emitter (pin3) to B+. connect the
    > collector to "load" (pin2). Connect the base to your
    > 7805 regulator IC (pin1 of TIP-30)to (pin1 of 7805).
    > Connect the output of the regulator(pin3)to collector
    > of TIP-30 (pin2). Ground the 7805 (pin2). Add .1 caps
    > to emitter and collector of transistor. Place a 470uf
    > cap to Collector (pin2) of transistor. This is clean
    > and cool, with minimum parts.
    > A schematics would have been better, but hope this
    > helps.>>
    >
    > Duncan
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault
    > -- http://www.egroups.com/docvault/basicstamps/?m=1
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2000-03-29 14:04
    if you put a small resistance on each output leg (like 0.33 ohm) would that
    help equalize the current flow (and heat) ?

    richard




    Original Message
    From: Bob Underwood <bobu@n...>
    To: <basicstamps@egroups.com>
    Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 3:23 PM
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: More Current out of 7805


    > Mike
    >
    > On paper, parallel 7805s don't share the load well at all; the one with
    the
    > higher output voltage takes most of the load and the other one loafs. But
    > do you really care? As long as your output voltage is reasonably close, it
    > really doesn't matter which device is carrying the load. I ran a set of
    > three 7805s like this one time specifically to see if I could induce a
    > thermal shutdown oscillation (The overachiever that takes most of the load
    > gets too hot, shuts down, passes the load to the next guy until he shuts
    > down etc.) I never did get it to misbehave; it worked perfectly every
    time.
    >
    > I'd have to think it would be a better idea for production to go to a
    > larger regulator like the LM138 or LM196, but that violates the premise of
    > putting it together quickly out of parts you have.
    >
    > Whatever you do, you're going to have to deal with the power dissipation
    > question, unless the 1.5 Amp peak current is short and/or low duty cycle.
    > (if it IS short and/or low duty cycle, you might get by with just a big
    > capacitor on the output). If you need more help, try to give us a little
    > more information as to the duration and frequency of the current peak as
    > well as any quiescent load you might have.
    >
    > It sounds like you're not proposing to put this into production, so I give
    > you permission to try paralleling the 7805s; it's not a pretty solution,
    > but I think it will work, and pretty sure it won't hurt anything.
    >
    > Bob U.
    >
    > At 02:15 PM 3/28/00 -0500, you wrote:
    > >Hi,
    > >
    > >My project requires a peak current of about 1.5 amps. I need a regulated
    > >source that I can put together quickly out of parts I have. Can I put to
    > >7805s in parallel t get more current? How well do they share or is there
    > >some other way of doing it?
    > >
    > >Thanks
    > >Mike
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/basicstamps/
    > >http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
    >
    >
    >
    > -- Check out your group's private Chat room
    > -- http://www.egroups.com/ChatPage?listName=basicstamps&m=1
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2000-03-29 16:00
    Richard,

    > if you put a small resistance on each output leg (like 0.33 ohm) would that
    > help equalize the current flow (and heat) ?

    Load sharing does not work with current sensitive devices (transistors
    for example) because of a "feature" called thermal runaway. As current
    increases, temperature increases, increased temperature causes lower
    resistance, which increases current... I think you see where this is going.
    What always happens is that one of the paralleled components will heat up
    a bit more than the others, that one will start passing more current, ...
    The others will not do anything, the vast majority will go through one of
    the parts. Only FETs do not share this problem, with increased current the
    voltage drop across the FET increases, this causes heat (energy dissipation)
    which increases the FET's resistance, which chokes back current allowing
    other paralleled parts to pass more current. That wasn't a very techy
    description, but it gets the point across I guess. 8^)

    DLC

    >
    Original Message
    > From: Bob Underwood <bobu@n...>
    > To: <basicstamps@egroups.com>
    > Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 3:23 PM
    > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: More Current out of 7805
    >
    >
    > > Mike
    > >
    > > On paper, parallel 7805s don't share the load well at all; the one with
    > the
    > > higher output voltage takes most of the load and the other one loafs. But
    > > do you really care? As long as your output voltage is reasonably close, it
    > > really doesn't matter which device is carrying the load. I ran a set of
    > > three 7805s like this one time specifically to see if I could induce a
    > > thermal shutdown oscillation (The overachiever that takes most of the load
    > > gets too hot, shuts down, passes the load to the next guy until he shuts
    > > down etc.) I never did get it to misbehave; it worked perfectly every
    > time.
    > >
    > > I'd have to think it would be a better idea for production to go to a
    > > larger regulator like the LM138 or LM196, but that violates the premise of
    > > putting it together quickly out of parts you have.
    > >
    > > Whatever you do, you're going to have to deal with the power dissipation
    > > question, unless the 1.5 Amp peak current is short and/or low duty cycle.
    > > (if it IS short and/or low duty cycle, you might get by with just a big
    > > capacitor on the output). If you need more help, try to give us a little
    > > more information as to the duration and frequency of the current peak as
    > > well as any quiescent load you might have.
    > >
    > > It sounds like you're not proposing to put this into production, so I give
    > > you permission to try paralleling the 7805s; it's not a pretty solution,
    > > but I think it will work, and pretty sure it won't hurt anything.
    > >
    > > Bob U.
    > >
    > > At 02:15 PM 3/28/00 -0500, you wrote:
    > > >Hi,
    > > >
    > > >My project requires a peak current of about 1.5 amps. I need a regulated
    > > >source that I can put together quickly out of parts I have. Can I put to
    > > >7805s in parallel t get more current? How well do they share or is there
    > > >some other way of doing it?
    > > >
    > > >Thanks
    > > >Mike
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/basicstamps/
    > > >http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > -- Check out your group's private Chat room
    > > -- http://www.egroups.com/ChatPage?listName=basicstamps&m=1
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/basicstamps
    > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
    >
    >
    >
    >


    --
    ============================================================================
    * Dennis Clark Aristocrat at heart dlc@v... www.verinet.com/~dlc *
    * Be well, do good work, and stay in touch -- Garrison Keillor *
    ============================================================================
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2000-03-29 16:01
    Richard/Mike

    Good idea; yes, that solves the problem of current sharing, but it costs
    you a couple hundred millivolts of load regulation. The degeneration
    resistance idea works well with parallel transistors where you can put the
    current sharing resistors inside the loop and the feedback keeps the output
    voltage accurate, but there's no (easy) way to do that with a 7805.

    The PNP booster transistor idea can work very well with one caution: you
    lose most of the protection features of the 7805. The current is limited
    only by the beta of the boost transistor and the thermal shutdown will
    protect the 7805, but NOT the PNP.

    In Michael's second message, he says he wants to use this to spin up a hard
    drive and only needs the extra current during the time the motor is coming
    up to speed. That will be several seconds, so a large capacitor is probably
    not practical.

    I don't understand why the voltage would be 4.9V with two 7805s in
    parallel; in my experience, the output goes to higher of the two voltages
    at light to moderate loads, then falls to the voltage of the second one
    when the first is overloaded. But modern 7805s are much more accurate than
    the data sheet implies, so you would probably be hard pressed to see that
    happening. I'd have to guess that the 7805s are putting out 5.00V and you
    are losing it in the wiring.

    Instead of paralleling 7805s, how about using two of them separately, one
    to power the motor and another to power your logic? That way, you don't
    care if the motor one isn't very accurate during spin-up, your logic should
    be completely happy at all times and both regulators should be OK.

    Bob U.

    At 07:04 AM 3/29/00 -0600, you wrote:
    >if you put a small resistance on each output leg (like 0.33 ohm) would that
    >help equalize the current flow (and heat) ?
    >
    >richard
    >I am trying to spin up a hard drive and power a breadboard packed with
    >components. I tried to parallel them and the voltage was about 4.9v but was
    >unsure if it could slip at anytime. It will probably be at about 1.5 amps
    >for 8 - 10 seconds until it spins up then drop to about .5 - .8
    >Thanks
    >Mike
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2000-03-30 00:50
    At 07:01 AM 3/29/00 -0800, Bob Underwood promulgated:
    >Richard/Mike
    >
    >Good idea; yes, that solves the problem of current sharing, but it costs
    >you a couple hundred millivolts of load regulation. The degeneration
    >resistance idea works well with parallel transistors where you can put the
    >current sharing resistors inside the loop and the feedback keeps the output
    >voltage accurate, but there's no (easy) way to do that with a 7805.
    >
    >The PNP booster transistor idea can work very well with one caution: you
    >lose most of the protection features of the 7805. The current is limited
    >only by the beta of the boost transistor and the thermal shutdown will
    >protect the 7805, but NOT the PNP.
    >
    >In Michael's second message, he says he wants to use this to spin up a hard
    >drive and only needs the extra current during the time the motor is coming
    >up to speed. That will be several seconds, so a large capacitor is probably
    >not practical.
    >
    >I don't understand why the voltage would be 4.9V with two 7805s in
    >parallel; in my experience, the output goes to higher of the two voltages
    >at light to moderate loads, then falls to the voltage of the second one
    >when the first is overloaded. But modern 7805s are much more accurate than
    >the data sheet implies, so you would probably be hard pressed to see that
    >happening. I'd have to guess that the 7805s are putting out 5.00V and you
    >are losing it in the wiring.

    Might depend on the accuracy of the test instrument as well, I'd think.


    >
    >Instead of paralleling 7805s, how about using two of them separately, one
    >to power the motor and another to power your logic? That way, you don't
    >care if the motor one isn't very accurate during spin-up, your logic should
    >be completely happy at all times and both regulators should be OK.
    >
    >Bob U.
    >
    >At 07:04 AM 3/29/00 -0600, you wrote:
    >>if you put a small resistance on each output leg (like 0.33 ohm) would that
    >>help equalize the current flow (and heat) ?
    >>
    >>richard
    > >I am trying to spin up a hard drive and power a breadboard packed with
    > >components. I tried to parallel them and the voltage was about 4.9v but was
    > >unsure if it could slip at anytime. It will probably be at about 1.5 amps
    > >for 8 - 10 seconds until it spins up then drop to about .5 - .8
    > >Thanks
    > >Mike
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >-- Check out your group's private Chat room
    >-- http://www.egroups.com/ChatPage?listName=basicstamps&m=1
    >
    >
    >
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