New P2 Silicon

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  • Publison wrote: »
    Great news. I'll pay $100 for a four pack, but chips signed by Chip and Ken. I'll send the silver Sharpie to Rockland. :)

    You run the Parallax museum, so we might be up for a donation.

    Ken Gracey
  • Excellent news!
    Count me in for a Prop2 fun pack.
  • Ken Gracey wrote: »
    We have 1,000 chips. Preliminary plans are to offer them in four-packs as samples and on P2 Evaluation Boards.

    The four-packs will be limited one per customer (unless exceptions are made) and they will be costly at $100/box. I realize nobody is asking us to justify the cost, but even the handling, setup, packaging of a small number of chips is very expensive for us to manage. Anybody who is interested in the details can ask me for a better explanation and I'll provide it.

    Ken Gracey

    b3438c2bffffdbd5bf0ec9f2977f23.jpeg
    I would go for a second evaluation board, definitely, because the latest revision is simpler and better. As for the 4 sample pack, although the price is reasonable ($25 per sample), I'll have to leave them for later.

    Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço
  • Great news! When will we be able to place order foe eval boards?
  • Ken, do you have a price on the eval board ?

    Bean
  • Bean,
    It's the older revA board but US$150 by looks - https://www.parallax.com/product/64000-es
    And the revA accessories is US$100 - https://www.parallax.com/product/64006-es
    The HyperFlash/RAM combo accessory is missing from that.
  • Count me in for a 4-pack too :)

    Maybe we can save some shipping cost by a bulk shipment to Oz?
  • Yeah absolutely we can share shipping
  • I will take a full tray if the price is right as I know there are quite a few that want P2D2s and others here locally that need chips.
  • I can't quite swing $100 for a hobby at the moment...but I would love to send $30 or so to a kind individual that would like to sell off one of their samples. :-D

  • I'm in for 4. The check is in the mail. ( and as soon as it arrives I'll place a real order! ) Guess I gotta get my "Indy" board on the way too. I told my wife that: "Real live P2 CHIPS ARE AVAILABLE"... she snorted and said: " I'll believe it when I see it".
  • I will take a full tray if the price is right as I know there are quite a few that want P2D2s and others here locally that need chips.

    Are there any plans for a US offering of the P2D2? I want at least 2 and possibly more. Another eval board may be in the future either way.
  • cheezus wrote: »
    I will take a full tray if the price is right as I know there are quite a few that want P2D2s and others here locally that need chips.

    Are there any plans for a US offering of the P2D2? I want at least 2 and possibly more. Another eval board may be in the future either way.
    I'd like one as well if they are available fully populated.

  • I'm extremely interested in a populated P2D2 board or two as well.
  • I will be doing an initial run of 10 with the parts I have but I with so many wanting these boards I may end up doing another run of 50 or 100 even. Especially so since my companion dev board will have headers that are compatible with the eval accessory set although many of those interfaces will be built in anyway. I will make details available soon.
  • I would split a 4 chip order with one or two others (local to) and keep two here in Phoenix......
  • ... Especially so since my companion dev board will have headers that are compatible with the eval accessory set although many of those interfaces will be built in anyway...

    Peter, if you can pls add a few (2 to 4) "mikroBUS" slots on your dev board. This is becoming every more a standard bus and beside MikroElectronika there are also many other 3rd parties making both dev-boards with the bus and client module add-on cards. It is not related only to PIC controllers
  • I will be doing an initial run of 10 with the parts I have but I with so many wanting these boards I may end up doing another run of 50 or 100 even. Especially so since my companion dev board will have headers that are compatible with the eval accessory set although many of those interfaces will be built in anyway. I will make details available soon.
    Hi Peter,

    I'm considering buying a P2D2 as an alternative to a new P2 Eval board. I may not need a fully fledged board with many IOs, when I only need to test this new revision in terms of its basic functionality and compatibility with C compilers/code. But I have a couple of questions:
    - How are the VIO pins being supplied? LDO or DC-DC converter?
    - What is the price tag?

    Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço
  • jmgjmg Posts: 14,492
    edited 2019-10-25 - 19:46:36
    samuell wrote: »
    - How are the VIO pins being supplied? LDO or DC-DC converter?
    P2D2R2 uses a dual switching regulator, for 1v8 and 3V7 pre-LDO supply.
    P2D2R2 uses a dual AP7332 regulator in SOT26 to supply VA, VB sides.

    In P2D2Pi fork, I changed that to be 2 x NCP187AMT330, which has higher current, higher PSRR, and much lower QFN thermal resistance ( & it has PowerGOOD out ).
    In many use cases that NCP187AMT330 regulator would not need the 3V7 pre-SMPS stage.
    (Automotive variant is NCV8187AMT330)
  • The P2D2Pi would greatly simplify development of at least two projects I've been working on namely an engine control unit and a ballistic chronograph. The chrono I have working with P1 and a PiZeroW quite nicely but would benefit from the P2. the ECU works well with P1 but I need significantly more memory and counters (smartpins YES!) to fully implement.
  • jmg wrote: »
    In P2D2Pi fork, I changed that to be 2 x NCP187AMT330, which has higher current, higher PSRR, and much lower QFN thermal resistance ( & it has PowerGOOD out ).
    Searched ON's switching regulators for a few minutes before I figured out that that part was an LDO (though I'm not 100% sure that it's an ON part). So, you're going with LDO's? Interesting. Guess you figure folks will be supplying a relatively low input voltage. Anyway, that should provide some really clean power.
  • jmgjmg Posts: 14,492
    edited 2019-10-26 - 02:08:15
    jmg wrote: »
    In P2D2Pi fork, I changed that to be 2 x NCP187AMT330, which has higher current, higher PSRR, and much lower QFN thermal resistance ( & it has PowerGOOD out ).
    Searched ON's switching regulators for a few minutes before I figured out that that part was an LDO (though I'm not 100% sure that it's an ON part). So, you're going with LDO's? Interesting. Guess you figure folks will be supplying a relatively low input voltage. Anyway, that should provide some really clean power.

    Current P2D2r2 & Pi has a SMPS pre-regulator for the LDO, giving ~3v7, but for many uses, simply 5V into the LDO NCP187AMT330 will be ok.
    It has a peak current of 1.2A, but will usually be thermally limited, and splitting the regulator into 2 hot spots further helps.
    The highest drain in P2 (by far) is the Core Vdd
  • JRetSapDoogJRetSapDoog Posts: 847
    edited 2019-10-26 - 07:19:27
    [F]or many uses, simply 5V into the LDO NCP187AMT330 will be ok.
    Thanks, jmg. After I posted, I wondered if your board would be using 5V power.
    How are the VIO pins being supplied? LDO or DC-DC converter?
    Samuel, Peter just posted some details on page 22 of his P2D2 thread towards the bottom. Here's an excerpt:
    The r3 uses a dual switching regulator for the 1.8V and 3.3V supplies but since switching regs can be a bit noisy for A/D etc, the switcher is actually set for 3.6V and use a tiny dual LDO to supply clean rails to the the A and B side of the P2D2, that is 32 I/O each. Most LDOs can supply high current but only if power dissipation is kept low and so the 3.6V means that even at full 300ma x2 current that the power dissipation will only be in the order of 600ma x 300mV = 200mW. That's if every I/O was sourcing 9ma constantly all at the same time but that never happens. The 3.6V rail is available on the connector to make it easier to supply other devices and regulators. BTW. 3.6V is still quite safe to feed into a 3.3V input since CMOS are spec'd for +/- 300mV beyond rails.
  • jmgjmg Posts: 14,492
    [F]or many uses, simply 5V into the LDO NCP187AMT330 will be ok.
    Thanks, jmg. After I posted, I wondered if your board would be using 5V power.
    Yup, it is very similar to P2D2r3, being a fork - In my mind, Pi pinout matters more to the market, now & in future, than adding an adaptor board to fix that.
    There are just so many Pi-compatible boards out there, users will expect to plug them straight into either side 40P header. ( A fairly minor pin shuffle is needed )
    - and I added more oscillator choices, and chose a better, lower noise, higher PSRR LDO regulator setup closer to what I think users may use in their final Projects.
    I've also included support for 4 layers, as thermal looks to be the limiting P2 factors.

  • BTW, the P2D2 versions that I have are real, assembled, and tested and using the original silicon do not seem to have any limiting factors thermally, even when they have been run continually over 300MHz. The r4 version will have a simple RPi breakoff strip since it is simply a matter of pinout compatibility, nothing else. I have had pcbs and parts in stock for quite some time awaiting new silicon which I should have next week hopefully.
  • Thanks for all the replies so far.

    I would go for the P2D2r3, but, depending on the price tag, I may be inclined to choose the new P2 Eval, depending on the premium I have to pay. My reasons are:
    - I've bought the kit containing USB and HDMI, etc.
    - The new P2 Eval will have one LDO per bank, with more headroom to filter noise (not a deciding factor, though).

    Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço
  • USB and HDMI are standard on the P2D2 dev board which is also very useful as an end product since it is also designed to drop into an enclosure with sensible and accessible connector positions.
    If ever I found that 3.3V noise has to be reduced even more then it already is then I would simply do a pcb revision which also has a provision for a 4-layer pcb if need be.

    But as I found out from real life, we don't need those huge heatsinks that was first proposed, we don't need those many amps on the regulators either, and we don't need multi-layer boards for the heat either.
  • evanhevanh Posts: 9,956
    edited 2019-10-27 - 01:18:06
    ... we don't need those huge heatsinks that was first proposed, we don't need those many amps on the regulators either, and we don't need multi-layer boards for the heat either.
    More efficiency just means more leeway to go faster. RevB can definitely be pushed to higher wattage - making use of any heat spreading improvements.
  • @Ken Gracey How are we looking for the Eval board schedule?
  • Any updates on when these will become available?
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