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Parallax PBasic and MELabs PICBasic


What is the story here?

How could another company pull PBasic out from under Parallax and develop it?

http://melabs.com/
Basic Stamps,SX's and PIC's all share common characteristics.

'Are you ready to move up to an SX?'-Parallax

SX28 is drop in replacement for PIC16F57
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Comments

  • 36 Comments sorted by Date Added Votes
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 21,852
    edited May 1 Vote Up0Vote Down
    Who cares? Parallax has moved on with the Propeller, which is vastly superior to anything PIC-related. Get on board with the Propeller, and leave your PIC fixation behind. It's yesterday's news. Seriously.

    -Phil
    “Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  • This is about Stamps and PBasic.

    I think hobbyist's are free to continue development of Stamps on their own.

    Your opinions are what they are.Opinions.

    I think your comments are way out of line.
    Basic Stamps,SX's and PIC's all share common characteristics.

    'Are you ready to move up to an SX?'-Parallax

    SX28 is drop in replacement for PIC16F57
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 7,820
    This is about Stamps and PBasic.

    I think hobbyist's are free to continue development of Stamps on their own.

    Your opinions are what they are.Opinions.

    I think your comments are way out of line.

    Phil does have a point though. PICs are very limited, and Basic Stamps are constrained by those limitations. That's not to say that PIC's have no use. Their low cost and small packages do make them useful for simple tasks like switches, valve controllers, remote sensors, and thousands of other similar tasks.

    If you want to develop a better stamp you could design a PCB using a chip with more memory and cpu hp. An alternative would be to start with the Propeller Mini or Flip (or some other PCB) and use or modify one of the existing languages to run on it. Just think of it, one module that could be used as a Basic Stamp, Blockly Stamp, Forth Stamp, C Stamp, or ??? Stamp. The Propeller has the resources to be so much more than anything you could build with the PIC.
    In science there is no authority. There is only experiment.
    Life is unpredictable. Eat dessert first.

  • ' one module that could be used as a Basic Stamp'

    I think Spin is the Basic for Propeller.

    It's just not called Basic.

    It meets all the goals of using Basic as opposed to C or assembler.
    Basic Stamps,SX's and PIC's all share common characteristics.

    'Are you ready to move up to an SX?'-Parallax

    SX28 is drop in replacement for PIC16F57
  • ' one module that could be used as a Basic Stamp'

    I think Spin is the Basic for Propeller.

    It's just not called Basic.

    It meets all the goals of using Basic as opposed to C or assembler.

    PropBasic is the Basic for the Prop...with the execution speed of PASM.

    For the PIC, I would go with the Micromite or ByPic.
    PropBASIC ROCKS!
  • microcontrolleruser,

    Spin Zone #5 is all about PropBASIC.
    https://www.parallax.com/downloads/propeller-spin-zone-articles-and-code
  • I think Spin is the Basic for Propeller.
    ... only better! :) (But not as fast as PropBasic.)

    -Phil
    “Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
  • I think Spin is the Basic for Propeller.
    ... only better! :) (But not as fast as PropBasic.)

    -Phil

    In all regards I believe that Phil is making a good point here.
    I only use the Stamp when my application is of simple form and style. And I've been looking at ideas for the Prop, however it, like the Raspberry Pi, have one limitation, that's difficult for the (advanced) beginner to surmount, that of both devices are 3v3 style logic. Level translators are available, TI definitely makes one as a member of a series of them, Adafruit makes up one, and so does a Belgian firm, and so does Tinkersphere as it happens.

    However my Netduino uses 3v3 logic internally but its GPIO points are in fact 5v tolerant. We know from previous discussions that the Prop isn't. And I know from discussing it in their forum that the Raspberry Pi isn't ether.

    So let's be careful here who we complain about. I believe this is the last anything on this subject.
    **Walks off grumbling in a decidedly strange language spoken on a planet that's slowly rusting itself to pieces.**

  • For what ever reason Parallax chose not to go after MELabs it was probably a good thing.

    Microchip should have left Ubicom alone and Parallax did good not being a bad guy.

    Tech isn't the place for vindictiveness.

    There's plenty of opportunities out there.No need to play hardball if your truly creative.

    An Imagineer.To steal from Disney.Borrowing is okay.
    Basic Stamps,SX's and PIC's all share common characteristics.

    'Are you ready to move up to an SX?'-Parallax

    SX28 is drop in replacement for PIC16F57
  • Adamant supporter of the BS2, here!

  • You tell 'em!

    The DIP version are very cool!

    The higher up Stamps are interesting too.

    I2C and some other cool stuff.Real time clocks.

    Stamps are great for prototyping.

    Documentation is 5 Star.
    Basic Stamps,SX's and PIC's all share common characteristics.

    'Are you ready to move up to an SX?'-Parallax

    SX28 is drop in replacement for PIC16F57
  • I think Parallax owes their success to the BS1 and BS2. If these two never existed then I doubt there would ever been a Prop or a Parallax in my opinion.
  • jmgjmg Posts: 11,255
    edited May 3 Vote Up1Vote Down
    I think Spin is the Basic for Propeller.
    ... only better! :) (But not as fast as PropBasic.)

    Well, even that 'not as fast as' is becoming a blurred line, if you take a look at this quite new work

    https://forums.parallax.com/discussion/168384/automatically-converting-spin-objects-to-pasm/p1

    ersmith has taken a PropBASIC example, and converted it to spin, which can then compile to COG hosted PASM - you can compare the PropBASIC PASM alongside the Spin PASM


  • Today is today and they have hitched their wagon to the Propeller.

    Probably Chip Gracey,their de facto leader decreed it is the way to go.That's that!

    Now that that is out of the way.

    Stamp 1's and Stamp 2's are big fun!

    You have to fit them hand in glove with more capable PIC's to be realistic.

    You can do plenty with Ubicon based Stamps and Pbasic though.

    There's plenty there to keep you busy for a lifetime.

    Anybody coined a name for the 'better' Stamps? Stamp2SX and up to the P40?

    Basic Stamps,SX's and PIC's all share common characteristics.

    'Are you ready to move up to an SX?'-Parallax

    SX28 is drop in replacement for PIC16F57

  • 'PropBASIC example,'

    Ewww! ANOTHER Propeller intruder!

    Do I talk about Stamps and SX in Propeller sub forum?
    Basic Stamps,SX's and PIC's all share common characteristics.

    'Are you ready to move up to an SX?'-Parallax

    SX28 is drop in replacement for PIC16F57
  • jmgjmg Posts: 11,255
    ...
    I only use the Stamp when my application is of simple form and style. And I've been looking at ideas for the Prop, however it, like the Raspberry Pi, have one limitation, that's difficult for the (advanced) beginner to surmount, that of both devices are 3v3 style logic. Level translators are available, TI definitely makes one as a member of a series of them, Adafruit makes up one, and so does a Belgian firm, and so does Tinkersphere as it happens.

    However my Netduino uses 3v3 logic internally but its GPIO points are in fact 5v tolerant. We know from previous discussions that the Prop isn't. And I know from discussing it in their forum that the Raspberry Pi isn't ether.

    If you need simple and 5V modules, then the Ardunio covers the 8-bit side, and there are ARM cores that are 5V operating, so you can get 5V ARM 'ardunios'
    Nuvoton have some M0 and M4 cored Ardunio header modules here
  • microcontrolleruser,

    Chip has been working on a 2nd generation Propeller chip for years and everyone is eagerly awaiting its release.
  • I think Spin is the Basic for Propeller.
    ... only better! :) (But not as fast as PropBasic.)
    -Phil

    And there's an important point: the Propeller can be programmed in Spin, BASIC, C, and even Forth! I do not understand the fixation on the long-dead SX or even the BASIC Stamp which, while still serviceable (we use them in products at EFX-TEK), is old tech by comparison.

    Actors watch behaviors. What fascinates me is that this young member has made no substantive contribution to the community that I can gather (I could be wrong), but is incredibly demanding vis-a-vis what Parallax should be doing and how they should run their business. It's almost as if he's tried the products he wishes Parallax would produce, but not found a support community like that available to Parallax customers.... Again, I could be wrong.
    Jon McPhalen
    Hollywood, CA
    It's Jon or JonnyMac -- please do not call me Jonny.

  • Thank you for working on the SX Basic.That sure is interesting!

    Be interesting to determine which is more powerful.

    One of the PBasic running Ubicom Stamps or true SX running SX Basic.SX/B

    One thing for sure there is no 40 pin DIP SX.

    Have to figure out how many I/O pins are on an SX 48.

    I think they have them still on Parallax website.



    Basic Stamps,SX's and PIC's all share common characteristics.

    'Are you ready to move up to an SX?'-Parallax

    SX28 is drop in replacement for PIC16F57
  • JonnyMac wrote: »
    Actors watch behaviors. What fascinates me is that this young member has made no substantive contribution to the community that I can gather (I could be wrong), but is incredibly demanding vis-a-vis what Parallax should be doing and how they should run their business. It's almost as if he's tried the products he wishes Parallax would produce, but not found a support community like that available to Parallax customers.... Again, I could be wrong.

    I've pretty much decided that he is a poorly designed AI project.

    Re-inventing the wheel is not a waste of time if, when you are done, you understand why it is round.
    Cool, CA, USA 95614
  • Hello!
    Thank you Tom! But I happen to know that Watson everyone's favorite AI, is not interested in our community. He has better things to do. In fact he's plugged into a series of groups on Yahooie for an emulator for the IBM S/390 family. And actually has an unpronounceable human name and a Yahooie e-mail address to go with it.

    If you think I'm kidding look at the Hercules groups on Yahoo.

    I won't go into the other 99999 details here.

  • I've pretty much decided that he is a poorly designed AI project.

    I see a lot of myself in microcontrolleruser. I think he's an enthusiastic Russian kid or something who just doesn't have money to buy equipment/parts. So instead he just spins his wheels here with stream-of-consciousness pontification.

    So I propose we start a drive. Each of us can order and dropship one item to microcontrolleruser. It will be very, very cheap:

    -Arduino, Launchpad, Stamp or whatever
    -1 or 2 breadboards
    -voltmeter
    -power supply
    -components (LEDs etc)
    -accessories

    I also propose as 50:1 posting ratio. So for every 50 posts, microcontrolleruser has to order at least one item from Parallax or Sparkfun, etc, to show he's serious. Or in lieu of this he can post an update pic of a current project he is working on with above mentioned parts.

    I will also partake in this drive, as long as his address is in the US.

    You guys game?
    I am the Master, and technology my slave.
  • The_Master wrote: »

    I've pretty much decided that he is a poorly designed AI project.

    I see a lot of myself in microcontrolleruser. I think he's an enthusiastic Russian kid or something who just doesn't have money to buy equipment/parts. So instead he just spins his wheels here with stream-of-consciousness pontification.

    So I propose we start a drive. Each of us can order and dropship one item to microcontrolleruser. It will be very, very cheap:

    -Arduino, Launchpad, Stamp or whatever
    -1 or 2 breadboards
    -voltmeter
    -power supply
    -components (LEDs etc)
    -accessories

    I also propose as 50:1 posting ratio. So for every 50 posts, microcontrolleruser has to order at least one item from Parallax or Sparkfun, etc, to show he's serious. Or in lieu of this he can post an update pic of a current project he is working on with above mentioned parts.

    I will also partake in this drive, as long as his address is in the US.

    You guys game?
    I thought he already had a bunch of SX stuff including an SX-Key.
  • microcontrollerusermicrocontrolleruser Posts: 789
    edited May 9 Vote Up0Vote Down
    'I'd like to socialize but I can't find the time.Got something on my mind.'-Jethro Tull? 'Aqualung'? Same album?
    Basic Stamps,SX's and PIC's all share common characteristics.

    'Are you ready to move up to an SX?'-Parallax

    SX28 is drop in replacement for PIC16F57
  • microcontrollerusermicrocontrolleruser Posts: 789
    edited May 9 Vote Up0Vote Down
    'who just doesn't have money to buy equipment/parts'

    Thanks.Just keep your money.

    We get our money the old fashioned way.We earn it.
    Basic Stamps,SX's and PIC's all share common characteristics.

    'Are you ready to move up to an SX?'-Parallax

    SX28 is drop in replacement for PIC16F57
  • microcontrollerusermicrocontrolleruser Posts: 789
    edited May 9 Vote Up0Vote Down
    More to the point is.

    I am only looking for a couple used Parallax items.

    I will buy them myself thank you.
    Basic Stamps,SX's and PIC's all share common characteristics.

    'Are you ready to move up to an SX?'-Parallax

    SX28 is drop in replacement for PIC16F57
  • So that's 11 posts in the last 8 hours since I made my 50:1 proposal.

    You have 39 more posts to go before you need to either:

    a) buy something, anything
    -OR-
    b) actually DO something, and post a photo
    -OR-
    c) post something original, or an interesting link.
    I am the Master, and technology my slave.
  • I'm still confused about the subject of this thread. Is it "What is the story here?" or what? PBasic vs. PICBasic is old ... has been discussed before. There's a lot of past history on Microchip vs. Ubicom and Parallax that's also been discussed and you can look up on Wikipedia. Thanks to that, Chip and Ken decided that Parallax shouldn't be dependent on someone else's intellectual property ... hence the development of the Propeller 1 and soon 2. Whatever your opinions of the Basic Stamps including their SX versions, Parallax has moved on wholeheartedly to the use of their Propeller architecture. They occasionally will use a small AVR or other microcontroller internally in a product like the PING))), but it's usually a component, not for customer access.

  • Why didn't Parallax go after MELabs for using PBasic?

    They had just taking a beating from Microchip about the SX.

    Guess knew how it felt to get picked on and choose not to do it to MELabs.


    Basic Stamps,SX's and PIC's all share common characteristics.

    'Are you ready to move up to an SX?'-Parallax

    SX28 is drop in replacement for PIC16F57
  • microcontrollerusermicrocontrolleruser Posts: 789
    edited May 9 Vote Up0Vote Down
    I guess it would have been a lot to ask then for them to shake it off and just continue with PIC.

    Onlookers would have seen it as caving in to Microchip.'Taking it and liking it.'

    So result today is no PIC development at Parallax at the present.

    I myself prefer to build on what I have done up to that point.

    Not start off in a new direction.May be just the stage I'm at coloring my judgement.
    Basic Stamps,SX's and PIC's all share common characteristics.

    'Are you ready to move up to an SX?'-Parallax

    SX28 is drop in replacement for PIC16F57
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