Problems with Propeller Spin Support on Macintosh Computers
varnon
Posts: 184
Hi all,
I have been using the Propeller, with Spin, for 6 years or so. During this time I primarily relied on Propeller Tool for PCs, and BST for the Macs. I never had any problems. More recently, I have a newer Macintosh at work, and I am having great difficulty with the current generation of Mac programs. My colleague is also encountering the same problems as she is trying to switch from Arduino to Propeller.
I am going through each application, one at a time. Has anyone found workarounds for these problems? Perhaps I am looking at a small sample size, but this does not feel good for Mac users. I desperately need a recommendation for my colleagues and students that use Macs akin to "just download BST" or "just download Propeller Tool."
I have tested BST, Propeller IDE, and Simple IDE on my old home computer, a Mid 2007 iMac with El Capitan 10.11.6, as well as my work computer, a 2017 iMac with Sierra 10.12.6, and my colleagues's home computer, a 2012 Macbook Pro with Sierra 10.12.6.
BST
- Works great on my Mid 2007 iMac
- Program does not launch on the newer macs. Gives a "BST quit unexpectedly" error.
- I understand that this program is not supported anymore. Does anyone have it working on newer Macs? Or can it just be considered nonfunctional?
Propeller IDE 0.33.3
- This one almost works on the 2012 and 2017 Macs, but the program seems to have trouble with the USB ports. They appear to become locked after a few uses, and the Propellers on those ports cannot be found. Restarting the computer frees the ports. I have some successes manually resetting Propellers before programing, but other times this does not work. The problem seems to be present even when the Spin program does not use the RX/TX pins, but it seems much easier to get the problems when using these pins. When the ports become "locked," I am unable to access those ports in other programs as well, even with the Propeller disconnected. I'm looking into issues with Mac USB drivers now. I suspect that this might be one major source of problems.
Propeller IDE 0.38.5
- The BSTC compiler does not seem to work at all. The build process crashes.
- The Open Spin compiler does work, but the program cannot be loaded to a Propeller, either RAM or EEPROM. Propeller IDE waits forever after the build process. No specific errors are reported.
Simple IDE 1.1.0
- When programing in Spin, the blank simple project template cannot be found. This prevents Simple IDE from being used with Spin. You can manually create the .spin and .side template files and add them to the application contents as a work around. I believe this error has been around for a few years.
- For my colleague on her 2012 Macbook Pro, once a project is created, it will not save spin files. The file being edited will always remain "untitled" As the files cannot not be saved, they cannot be loaded. Trying to build the program brings up a "hint" error box that states "The file being displayed is not the main project file..." The build status box provides the error "Can not find/open file."
- On my 2017 iMac, I can program to EEPROM, but the program does not start until I manually reset the Propeller. Loading to RAM is not possible, likely due to the same issue.
I had some other problems with Propeller IDE and Simple IDE a few months ago when I first started getting my new work computer set up, but I did not encounter any others today trying to help my colleague.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. For now, we both also have work PCs, and I am hoping Propeller Tool is still a good option. If we can find some solutions, it would be nice if we could make an easily accessible resource for new users as well.
[Edit]
Looks like we have at least one major thread on the Mac / USB issues:
https://forums.parallax.com/discussion/166516/propelleride-on-macos-with-ftdi-and-other-issues
I'lI see if I can follow Tracy Allen's suggestion for this one. I'm not sure this is a beginner-safe solution, unfortunately.
I have been using the Propeller, with Spin, for 6 years or so. During this time I primarily relied on Propeller Tool for PCs, and BST for the Macs. I never had any problems. More recently, I have a newer Macintosh at work, and I am having great difficulty with the current generation of Mac programs. My colleague is also encountering the same problems as she is trying to switch from Arduino to Propeller.
I am going through each application, one at a time. Has anyone found workarounds for these problems? Perhaps I am looking at a small sample size, but this does not feel good for Mac users. I desperately need a recommendation for my colleagues and students that use Macs akin to "just download BST" or "just download Propeller Tool."
I have tested BST, Propeller IDE, and Simple IDE on my old home computer, a Mid 2007 iMac with El Capitan 10.11.6, as well as my work computer, a 2017 iMac with Sierra 10.12.6, and my colleagues's home computer, a 2012 Macbook Pro with Sierra 10.12.6.
BST
- Works great on my Mid 2007 iMac
- Program does not launch on the newer macs. Gives a "BST quit unexpectedly" error.
- I understand that this program is not supported anymore. Does anyone have it working on newer Macs? Or can it just be considered nonfunctional?
Propeller IDE 0.33.3
- This one almost works on the 2012 and 2017 Macs, but the program seems to have trouble with the USB ports. They appear to become locked after a few uses, and the Propellers on those ports cannot be found. Restarting the computer frees the ports. I have some successes manually resetting Propellers before programing, but other times this does not work. The problem seems to be present even when the Spin program does not use the RX/TX pins, but it seems much easier to get the problems when using these pins. When the ports become "locked," I am unable to access those ports in other programs as well, even with the Propeller disconnected. I'm looking into issues with Mac USB drivers now. I suspect that this might be one major source of problems.
Propeller IDE 0.38.5
- The BSTC compiler does not seem to work at all. The build process crashes.
- The Open Spin compiler does work, but the program cannot be loaded to a Propeller, either RAM or EEPROM. Propeller IDE waits forever after the build process. No specific errors are reported.
Simple IDE 1.1.0
- When programing in Spin, the blank simple project template cannot be found. This prevents Simple IDE from being used with Spin. You can manually create the .spin and .side template files and add them to the application contents as a work around. I believe this error has been around for a few years.
- For my colleague on her 2012 Macbook Pro, once a project is created, it will not save spin files. The file being edited will always remain "untitled" As the files cannot not be saved, they cannot be loaded. Trying to build the program brings up a "hint" error box that states "The file being displayed is not the main project file..." The build status box provides the error "Can not find/open file."
- On my 2017 iMac, I can program to EEPROM, but the program does not start until I manually reset the Propeller. Loading to RAM is not possible, likely due to the same issue.
I had some other problems with Propeller IDE and Simple IDE a few months ago when I first started getting my new work computer set up, but I did not encounter any others today trying to help my colleague.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. For now, we both also have work PCs, and I am hoping Propeller Tool is still a good option. If we can find some solutions, it would be nice if we could make an easily accessible resource for new users as well.
[Edit]
Looks like we have at least one major thread on the Mac / USB issues:
https://forums.parallax.com/discussion/166516/propelleride-on-macos-with-ftdi-and-other-issues
I'lI see if I can follow Tracy Allen's suggestion for this one. I'm not sure this is a beginner-safe solution, unfortunately.
Comments
Problem is it's only a binary executable so when your OS/platform eventually refuses to run it there is not much that can be done. It's dead.
Same applies to the BSTC command line compiler.
The PropellerTool is great and all. But it's Windows only. Never any use to me.
Our best hope is OpenSpin. For which the source code is available. If it does not work on your platform, kick the devs into making it so. Or, the source is available so someone, somewhere can.
As for IDE's like SimpleIDE, PropellerIDE, the same applies. Mostly they are not needed though.
Thinks a bit... there is always the HomeSpun Spin compiler:
https://github.com/ZiCog/HomeSpun
That sounds like
* install of FTDI supplied newest driver, then reboot, should always work ?
There is also this pathway, for a second opinion testing...
https://forums.parallax.com/discussion/128465/here-is-the-python-to-propeller-tutorial
This is not about Spin compiler support on various platforms.
It's not even about the IDE's running or not.
It's about the Propeller loaders.
To this day I have no idea why an FTDI driver is required.
I test and program BST on osx Yosemite at home, and flash on Propeller Tools widows 7 at work.
With big programs, I get in trouble with propeller tool, it do not want to compile, to big code for Hub Ram.
So I use BST on windows and the program fit in propeller.
The layout on Propeller tools is nicer.
Propeller and BST is the first reason why not upgrade to High Sierra on OSX
So take a usb drive, install Yosemite, and boot from USB to get BST working on OSX
I can confirm BST works on Yosemite, el Capitan, but not Sierra, and presumably not High Sierra. I am pretty sure BST works with earlier macOSs such as Mavericks and Mountain Lion.
For Propeller IDE, USB drivers are the issue. I can confirm this is an issue with High Sierra, others suggest this issue is relevant to Mavericks, Yosemite, and el Capitan. I have tried reinstalling FTDI drivers, and uninstalling the FTDI drivers and using the default Mac drivers. The best I get is inconsistent results. So far, I have not gotten a complete lock up using the default Mac drivers, but Propeller IDE still seems to have trouble resetting the Propeller. Version 0.38.5 still does not seem to be able to load a program at all, regardless of the drivers used. This looks in line with what everyone else has reported in this and other threads. I don't see any major differences between v 2.3 and v 2.4 of the FTDI drivers. 2.3 is maybe a little more consistent?
I am still not sure what is going on with some of the Simple IDE problems, but it seems like the USB driver may not be an issue there. I will see if I can find a good Simple IDE solution for macs. I'll look into PropLoader and HomeSpun Spin compiler too. Ultimately, I would like to find something easy enough for beginners. Eventually I might make a "getting started" page on my website that I can keep up to date with some of these issue.
More specific replies:
jmg, unfortunately, updating new drivers does not seem to be good enough. I have done some fun things with Propeller/Python interactions, but you have to get a program on the Propeller to be able to do any of that, so Python wouldn't be of much help. I did use Python to test the locked up serial ports. It also could not find the locked ports.
Heater, yes it seems to be mostly about propeller loaders and USB drivers, although I have encountered other problems. I really just need and easy "plug-and-play" solution for students and colleagues. Any of the issues I mentioned in the first post are problematic, but the USB drivers seems to be the biggest.
Mike, what emulator are you using? I can open Propeller Tool just fine in Wine, but I haven't looked into how to deal with USB drivers through Wine.
Lteach, I agree, there are so many reasons now to not update your operating system. I didn't update mine at home, but at work I have no choice. I also think most people do not realize that an update can sometimes be harmful, so most of my colleagues and students use the newest systems they can get.
I can program to EEPROM, but the program does not start until I manually reset the Propeller. Loading to RAM is not possible, likely due to the same issue. Again, I suspect the USB drivers.
I haven't had any luck with Wine and the USB drivers
It's likely the USB issues you are having are related to some boards using DTR for reset and some boards using RTS to reset. This is because some USB chips (FTDI or others) don't have DTR going out to a pin.
PropTool can be set to use either or both.
Propeller IDE has configs based on board for which one to use. Not sure why they didn't just make it try both like PropTool.
It's also possible that the MacOS High Sierra stuff is messing with those lines. Is there a way to configure the USB serial ports? Look for a hardware flow control option, and turn it off if possible.
Unhooking the FTDI while the port is enabled in CoolTerm is a sure way to crash PropellerIDE. That and other bumps in the night can result in loss of the current USB port for both PropellerIDE and for CoolTerm. To get around that and to restore operation quickly, I keep a 7-port hub plugged into one of the two MacBook USB ports and use that for the Prop stuff. Moving the Prop to the next USB port on the Hub almost always restores connectivity without having to do a reset. In an intense programming session I may have to go through all 7 of the ports and then switch over to the second USB port on the Mac, and after burning through 14 USB ports, well, a restart is necessary to reset them all.
Not ideal, but I don't have room to install Windows in an emulator, and in any case I do like and need some of the features of PropellerIDE. I do have a real PC at the office, and for nostalgia and recourse I keep an older MacBook that still runs BST under Snow Leopard 10.6.