Toward a work free world

Kirk FraserKirk Fraser Posts: 364
edited 2018-01-31 - 22:07:32 in General Discussion
How can I start a big volunteer software project like Linux was for intelligence that can end human work? A humanoid robot can physically do jobs designed for humans but without great software it's only a large RC toy or a single task repeat performer. I can finish my robot but to get truly intelligent software that can learn K-12 and beyond needs big help.

Having studied AI on the back burner since high school, I learned the Cyc project was based on the Columbia desktop encyclopedia and after reading a few entries I see that explains why Cyc has 4th grade performance - the source material is written at a low grade level. I looked up a few words I'm familiar with like Jesus and church finding the entries are not up to the standard of an average pastor let alone the best. Also, a Watson video says it can't understand Bible parables. So I propose starting with the top level intelligence which the current best projects can't do, the Bible, and the best published interpretation I know of, the Collected Works of WL by as a start then advance from there to things like contrasting Jesus and Paul. If software can achieve that level, not by flat neural nets which cannot answer interactive questions but by expert If-Then-Else training so it can converse, it should be easy to train in lower fields until there is enough coverage to make life easier.

Being 63 I'm starting to feel what it's like to be old and I've also communicated with homeless and 3rd world people who have a great need for all of our technology in a can. It would improve care in retirement homes, group homes, and all homes doing chores that humans don't do. What will happen when you grow old and you have no one to take care of you? I think this project could help everyone. But how can I get volunteers? Thank you.

PS: I have started a new ruletalk computer language which will make expert system methods easier. The parser works for simple input and the vm requires much work. Currently I'm building it on Pharo Smalltalk but have been considering conversion to Python. It could also be converted to Spin to work on Propeller chips with large memory access, or any hardware is possible. But it needs audio, video, and USB input and output (A/V/U). The FORTH people have their own multi-core chip I'm not familiar with. Any suggestions to get the best price/performance?


  • Post your code on github: or bit bucket: or some such. So that people can collaborate.

    Announce the launch of your code on some AI or robotics forum or wherever you think is appropriate.

    See what happens.

  • ElectrodudeElectrodude Posts: 1,436
    edited 2018-01-31 - 22:48:06
    Why would you want a work-free world? What would anyone do? It sounds awfully boring. It would lead to rampant boredom, drug abuse, crime, etc. Wouldn't it be better just to decrease the maximum amount of work anyone had to do to a reasonable level as much as possible? Sure, I wouldn't want to work in a coal mine all day or perform highly dangerous mindless back-breaking work, nor would I want anyone else to, and it sounds like something that shouldn't be too hard to automate. But I do enjoy mowing the lawn, cleaning the house, etc. - doing mindless manual labor can be very relaxing, even though it may take a lot of work. And there's plenty of work to be done that is manual yet not repetitive, such as repairing cars and houses and other expensive things, and these are far more difficult to automate than a car factory, and I've enjoyed all of the small amount of work I've done on houses, even though it had nothing to do with computers, electronics, etc.

    Suppose you did manage to make a true AI capable of understanding the Bible. Why would making it do work be better than having humans do it? How would it be any different from a human in dignity or rights or whatever, if it's truly an intelligent being?
  • Electrodude, watch movie "I Robot." The NS4 should be a guideline, not the NS5 robots. Obviously robots can be programmed to not demand rights and stay servants. Obviously you can tell a robot you want to mow the lawn, etc. But if you are sick, it would be nice to have the job done - the grass won't stop growing until you are well. Although a robot may become a great home school teacher, it can never actually experience answered prayer unless someone invents a spiritual peripheral. Thus it can never be truly as intelligent as humans. But it could be helpful.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,233
    edited 2018-02-01 - 00:14:18
    I don't understand the Bible. Despite scoring highest or second highest grades in Religious Knowledge all the way through High School. Given all the logical inconsistencies it contains I cannot imagine how any rule based computer system could do anything useful with it. Heck, humans have huge disagreements about the interpretation of the Biblical text.

    I don't understand what it means to understand or what is the meaning of "meaning". Except as far as "meaning" and "understanding" feel to me.

    And what's all this "feeling" thing anyway?

    As such I cannot advise as to how to make any machine understand or feel.

  • Your topic is exceptionally broad. If you want to complete a project I'd suggest a singular focus. To that point I'll just focus on one topic from your post.

    If I wanted to start on intelligent "interpretation" of any text, I'd start with the ability to ask this "interpretation" questions to get pertinent portions of text in response.
    Consider first, how to search this text as fast as reasonably possible. What facilities will you need to do so with a minimal memory impact?
    Meaning only exists in the eye of the beholder, but the linking of information to concept will allow your users to find the pertinent data to their issue.
    For example:
    Let's say someone is seeking advice about their relationship with their son.
    Would they want passages containing only the word son? Probably not; they'd need terms like family, child, and parent cross-indexed as well.

    Now before you begin any of this start with a search and see if something like that already exists.

    As has been mentioned, when you get something going post it on github and announce the project in relevant forums.
  • An example of state of the art interpretation:
    The man child in Rev. 12:5 is explained in Isaiah 66:7-8 as the children of Zion. To find this by computer, one needs more than a concordance type search engine, the software must find instances that may include multiple people and observe the parallelism of the following verse which equates a two word object with a three word object. Or some better system of analysis. I don't yet see a reliable method for doing that by software as it is undeniable logic in my head. Any ideas?
  • I guess that to have any chance of doing this we need to analyze the original text in Hebrew or whatever language it was originally written in. So as to be sure that no confusion has been introduced by the many translators long the way.
  • Heater it doesn't have to start with Greek and Hebrew - I for one know only English plus a few computer languages. The Greek and Hebrew analysis should come later after it is sure at doing English right. The knowledge skills and abilities to do English perfectly would most apply to other languages.
  • I had a teacher in a company training that said the most productive programmers are the laziest. They want to automate whatever they don't want to do. So I guess I need to find some of those people. Anybody know where to look?
  • It's not so simple.

    Yes, programmers will automate anything they have to do regularly. That is what computers are for.

    Coming up with algorithms to solve hard problems is another matter altogether.

    I think what you are describing is hard.

    The guys that have any clue about that are working for IBM, Google and the like. They are not necessarily just programmers.

    Attracting them to collaborate on your project in AI, robotics, and the "work free world" may be tricky.

    By the way. My comment about going back to the original sources in Hebrew or whatever language, was not about any automated language translation we can do today. Rather it was about skipping over the past two thousand years of translation and reinterpretation that has been going on.

    Also by the way, what's the deal with the Bible? How does that help building robots for a "work free world"? If machines are ever to understand anything I think starting with Alice In Wonderland would be better.

  • TorTor Posts: 2,003
    I don't want "work free". Most people actually consider their work an important part of their life. Without it they lose a big part of their social life which they couldn't have otherwise. My wife also talks about the need to do something that has value, someway or another. Sitting at home all day fiddling with some hobby doesn't satisfy that need very long.
    As for myself, I'm a programmer. I want to create programs. At my own I would run out of interesting things to program in a very short time. So instead I got myself a job as a young man, and now I have had a lifetime of interesting and often unexpected challenges.
    A "work free world" sounds like a nightmare worse than Dante's inferno.
  • Tor,

    I totally agree with you. In many ways our work defines who we are. Gives us a purpose and an identity. And is a big part of social life.

    On the other hand, it can be the other way around. Sometimes we define our work. I consider myself very lucky, indeed privileged, that for most of my life the work I have done has been a pleasure. A great source of curiosity and challenge. My mind has been attracted to studying or toying with something and lo it happens that somebody wants to pay me to to that. I think you are describing something similar in your own life.

    To us, work is the way we get into interesting places, meet interesting people and do interesting things. Take that away and it is indeed a nightmare. It has happened to me a few times.

    But that is not the case for a huge majority of the human population. They need food. Therefore they need money. Therefore they need work. Could be long hours of drudgery in bad conditions for a pittance. Like those poor guys building iPhones.

    That is a very different kind of "work".

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