All your Intel processors slowing down by 30% soon!

135

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  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 13,132
    edited January 9 Vote Up0Vote Down
    Peter, etc

    Protel 95 will not run on windoze 10 although 98 does. I use another older laptop with windoze 7 or 8 for Protel 95 although I loaded 98 on W10 to start to play with.

    I played with trying big free pcb layout program (forget name ATM).

    I had a paid Office 365 when I did some work for a friend, but the installation killed my legal installed Office 2014? Version. When Office 365 expired it started locking my files from updating them. Outlook was about to lock down my email files, and probably has by now.

    So I had had enough with MS so I installed the free WPS Office which works fine with my ms spreadsheets and word files. Thunderbird works for my emails, although I never could export Outlook email files into a usable format by anything other than MS programs.

    Quartus and Prop software is the only other programs I use apart from Edge and Firefox browsers.

    My navigation software is tied to a specific laptop, which is archived until I get back to sailing. So no problems here either.

    So I guess only problem is learning Linux. I am not interested in command line stuff. That went out 20 years ago!!! Unless I can run Linux using a GUI, and little learning curve, I am not interested in learning it. Though, I can never find anything under windoze now anyway :(

    Maybe I just have to bite the bullet ;)
    My Prop boards: P8XBlade2, RamBlade, CpuBlade, TriBlade
    Prop OS (also see Sphinx, PropDos, PropCmd, Spinix)
    Website: www.clusos.com
    Prop Tools (Index) , Emulators (Index) , ZiCog (Z80)
  • Clock LoopClock Loop Posts: 1,376
    edited January 9 Vote Up0Vote Down
    Linux isn't that bad if you can do dos.
    All modern linux os usually contain a gui that is started by typing

    'startx' at the command line, not all linux installs will start the gui at boot.
    The gui cannot run over telnet (putty) so dont do that command over putty or the serial interface on the pi, it just won't work.

    With linux, search the internet for the command or solution for the problem and do it.

    THEN copy your .bash_history file or print it. (if you print it you can document all the commands you did to make something happen.)

    if you hook up a hdmi display to a pi, and a usb key/mouse then its a cheap easy way to start out. A pc is a bigger deal cause its farily easy to pull the sd card from a pi and put it in a win pc and wipe the data to start over if you mess stuff up, and you can backup ones that you want to keep.

    After enough of that you will actually start using github to pull files that you will compile with make.
    In winblows, you havta wait for someone to make the executable...
    In linux, the instructions to do that are built into the github community, cause they all use linux to make compiles, even the windows file heh.

    Once you boot the latest version of raspbian on a pi3 with a hdmi display, you can download a copy of putty and telnet into it from your pc.
    That will let you copy commands from the internet to the pi without having to type them all.

    This bug thing is not that big a deal, just overclock, lol. One could always just keep offline as much as possible. Darknet, sneakernets. How locked down do you need to be?
    To study the nature of randomness in a digital processor network using the same clock source, 54 prop chips were all connected to a master prop. http://forums.parallax.com/discussion/127983/55-parallax-propeller-s-parallells-processing-of-permanent-perturbations/p1
    Optic communication between homogenous and commensurable, 8-core, 635nm emitting, phase locked loop, bit salad tossing units? http://forums.parallax.com/discussion/comment/1248240/#Comment_1248240
    TheBlackBox: Release v2.0 - Propeller HSS FX/Sequencer with Digital Audio SPDIF output. http://forums.parallax.com/discussion/115258/theblackbox-release-v2-0-propeller-hss-fx-sequencer-with-digital-audio-spdif
    E-Tools - Mono555 calculator, resistor calculator, voltage divider calculator, RCtime calculator, LM317 calculator, Binary-Hex-Decimal calculator, Resistor color matrix, Series LED resistance calculator, OHMS LAW calculator.
    http://forums.parallax.com/discussion/81449/e-tools-html-java-script-electronic-design-tools-free-for-you
  • Cluso99 wrote: »
    Windoze strikes...

    Today despite my settings and being on a metered connection, windoze has tried to force me to upgrade windoze (10) to the latest revision so it can then upgrade the security patches.

    After the message popped up, my start/shutdown only gave me the option to power down or restart with upgrade. I didn't select either, and later a message popped up asking when it could do the upgrade... now or remind me later ... I am on the merry-go-round :(

    So now I decide to shutdown... Now start menu only has a "power" button, no other choices. So, I expect windoze is lying and will upgrade when I go to power off. No choice as to whether I want the upgrade/fix or not.

    You have to disable the forced updates without turning the entire service off.
    Requires restart notification in windows 10

    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE
    SOFTWARE
    Microsoft
    Windows (New-Key*WindowsUpdate*)
    WindowsUpdate (New-Key*AU*)
    AU >> (New-DWORD*NoAutoRebootWithLoggedOnUsers*)
    Value Data = 1
    Any com port in a storm.
    Floating point numbers will be our downfall; count on it.
    Imagine a world without hypothetical situations.
  • There are also some other settings in God Mode to tweak which updates you get and how you get them.
    Any com port in a storm.
    Floating point numbers will be our downfall; count on it.
    Imagine a world without hypothetical situations.
  • For me, if I have to manipulate the registry, then I may as well go linux.

    Meanwhile today, I am on an unmetered wifi connection, and more downloads, pestering me to restart my laptop so it can install. Option for not now is delay for 90 minutes.

    The point I must make, is that I own my laptop, not Acer (it's an Acer laptop) - they are not claiming and/or using it.

    It has MS Windoze installed and running on it, which I have duly paid for (either in purchase price, or bought in store or online). Yes it's a convoluted license that ays MS owns the software and licenses e to use it.

    But, and here is the crunch...
    MS are using my hardware, and running whatever software they want on my hardware, at almost any time they choose, and at my expense (I pay the power bill and the internet download bill). IMHO this is theft.

    For me, this is equivalent to my car mechanic deciding when I will service my vehicle, coming out an taking my vehicle away for servicing, and doing whatever wants to my vehicle, and then returning it sometime. Only thing, he is not going to charge me for replacement parts.

    Finally I think it's time to bite the bullet...
    Linux here I come. Just have to work out which variant.
    My Prop boards: P8XBlade2, RamBlade, CpuBlade, TriBlade
    Prop OS (also see Sphinx, PropDos, PropCmd, Spinix)
    Website: www.clusos.com
    Prop Tools (Index) , Emulators (Index) , ZiCog (Z80)
  • Cluso99 wrote: »
    It has MS Windoze installed and running on it, which I have duly paid for (either in purchase price, or bought in store or online). Yes it's a convoluted license that ays MS owns the software and licenses e to use it.

    That's the issue. Windows 10 is a service.
    I agree Linux is the way to go, but as we still don't have a complete emulator Windows is still a necessary evil.
    Any com port in a storm.
    Floating point numbers will be our downfall; count on it.
    Imagine a world without hypothetical situations.
  • Linux is not the old command line Linux, it is a full gui bells and whistles o/s. LibreOffice is included as standard etc. Forget about what Linux purists might say or what the press might say to use, just install Linux Mint 18.3 if you actually just want to use the computer as a computer.
    Tachyon Forth - compact, fast, forthwright and interactive
    useforthlogo-s.png
    Tachyon Forth News Blog
    TACHYON DEMONSTRATOR
    Brisbane, Australia
  • Linux is not the old command line Linux, it is a full gui bells and whistles o/s. LibreOffice is included as standard etc. Forget about what Linux purists might say or what the press might say to use, just install Linux Mint 18.3 if you actually just want to use the computer as a computer.

    +1 Downloaded it, tried it, like it, and will be installing it after backing everything up.
    In science there is no authority. There is only experiment.
    Life is unpredictable. Eat dessert first.
  • Linux is not the old command line Linux, it is a full gui bells and whistles o/s. LibreOffice is included as standard etc. Forget about what Linux purists might say or what the press might say to use, just install Linux Mint 18.3 if you actually just want to use the computer as a computer.
    But I LIKE the old command line Linux! :-)

  • David Betz wrote: »
    Linux is not the old command line Linux, it is a full gui bells and whistles o/s. LibreOffice is included as standard etc. Forget about what Linux purists might say or what the press might say to use, just install Linux Mint 18.3 if you actually just want to use the computer as a computer.
    But I LIKE the old command line Linux! :-)

    It's still there, and easily accessible.
    In science there is no authority. There is only experiment.
    Life is unpredictable. Eat dessert first.
  • My son gave me a USB stick with Ubuntu on it. Not sure how old.

    Booted to it easily from the BIOS.

    A few annoying things on the gui, particularly the close box on the LHS instead of RHS, just like macs apparently. I have an old 128GB SSD and a CDROM carrier for it, so I could add another drive in addition to the 240GB SSDI have for Windoze. Otherwise I coud use an older laptop.

    Ubuntu and Mint have both been suggested.
    My Prop boards: P8XBlade2, RamBlade, CpuBlade, TriBlade
    Prop OS (also see Sphinx, PropDos, PropCmd, Spinix)
    Website: www.clusos.com
    Prop Tools (Index) , Emulators (Index) , ZiCog (Z80)
  • I haven't used Ubuntu for many years after they changed to the Unity desktop. By default my close boxes are top right but those things are so easy to change in Linux, in fact you can even have different desktop managers such as Gnome, Cinnamon, KDE, Xfce etc and different file managers. It is so customizable although the most I do in Linux Mint is change the theme colors and background. But please don't use any old Linux lying around, just use Linux Mint 18.3 and you will see what I mean.

    In fact you can even load Cairo dock to give your desktop that Mac feel.
    Tachyon Forth - compact, fast, forthwright and interactive
    useforthlogo-s.png
    Tachyon Forth News Blog
    TACHYON DEMONSTRATOR
    Brisbane, Australia
  • Cluso99 wrote: »
    My son gave me a USB stick with Ubuntu on it. Not sure how old.

    Booted to it easily from the BIOS.

    A few annoying things on the gui, particularly the close box on the LHS instead of RHS, just like macs apparently. I have an old 128GB SSD and a CDROM carrier for it, so I could add another drive in addition to the 240GB SSDI have for Windoze. Otherwise I coud use an older laptop.

    Ubuntu and Mint have both been suggested.

    http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/make-ubuntu-look-like-windows-10
    Any com port in a storm.
    Floating point numbers will be our downfall; count on it.
    Imagine a world without hypothetical situations.
  • evanhevanh Posts: 4,492
    edited January 10 Vote Up0Vote Down
    Kubuntu has always been my flavour of choice. So, the flip-flopping of Ubuntu's default desktop never impacted me.

    I'd moved over from QNX 6.x to SimplyMEPIS in 2006, that came with KDE pre-installed. I've found KDE comfy enough. I particularly liked the user ability to set customisable window settings on a per program basis.

    I adopted Kubuntu when I noticed Ubuntu came with automatic updating of nVidia OpenGL driver. The requirement to recompile the kernel for these type drivers is still a thorn in Linux's side, imho.

    The Prisoner's Dilemma, in english - "Selfishness beats altruism within groups. Altruistic groups beat selfish groups." - Quoted part from 2007, D.S Wilson/E.O Wilson.
  • And if the GPU gets changed or the HDD moved to another PC, then expect an aborted GUI load up when using the nvidia driver.

    Extracting oneself from this situation requires knowing how to unload two particular nvidia kernel modules before also removing the installed driver package. Only after that will any automatic GPU detection work correctly.
    The Prisoner's Dilemma, in english - "Selfishness beats altruism within groups. Altruistic groups beat selfish groups." - Quoted part from 2007, D.S Wilson/E.O Wilson.
  • evanh wrote: »
    I adopted Kubuntu when I noticed Ubuntu came with automatic updating of nVidia OpenGL driver. The requirement to recompile the kernel for these type drivers is still a thorn in Linux's side, imho.
    Only the driver needs to be recompiled, not the full kernel. And of course there are distros which provide updated pre-compiled drivers matching whatever kernel is installed.

    As for auto-updates, what about blocking Microsoft's site in your wi-fi router? If someone can figure out the network blocks used, of course.
    Then when you *want* to update you could flip a flag in the router's firewall..
  • Mint is designed to look as much like Windows as is reasonably possible while still being Linux. "Start button" in the same place, similar menus, panel, clock in the same place, double-click icons and so on.

    I use various flavors of Linux on different machines, but I always recommend Mint to newcomers from Windows. It's basically Ubuntu with a different GUI - so if you're searching for help on advanced stuff the Ubuntu advice normally applies to Mint too (and Ubuntu is currently still the most popular distro so that's the one with the most on-line advice). Ubuntu itself is based on Debian...

    ...But you don't need to know all that. Mint is the best one for newbies, and although I have years of Linux experience it's currently my favorite too.
  • The conversation's gone a bit off-topic...
  • https://hothardware.com/news/microsofts-spectre-meltdown-patches-windows-bricking-some-amd-pcs

    Headline says it all. Apparently the systems with the (old) AMD processors that are being bricked aren't vulnerable to the flaws in the first place - so they don't even need patching! Microsoft have now put a brake on the update so that it aborts if it recognizes certain non-Intel microprocessors.

    I love the comment complaining to Microsoft that says, "I understand that making the machine unbootable is the best protection from remote exploitation, but I would rather have the OS working."
  • So far the biggest (only) threat to your machine as a result of the Spectre and Meltdown debacle comes from Microsoft itself !

    Oddly I have not seen any sign of my Win 10 Surface Pro 4 wanting to install an update for this. Only one update since Christmas, for yet another FLASH vulnerability.






  • evanhevanh Posts: 4,492
    edited January 10 Vote Up0Vote Down
    Tor wrote: »
    Only the driver needs to be recompiled, not the full kernel.
    Yeah, that. I guess that shows how much interest I've had in doing it myself.
    And of course there are distros which provide updated pre-compiled drivers matching whatever kernel is installed.
    When it comes to the nvidia driver, Ubuntu certainly doesn't work that way. There is a special program that maintains the driver updates, which spends a while burning CPU each time - presumably a compile from source. Then a full reboot is needed - usually via a hardware reset because the desktop goes out to lunch after the new driver is installed.

    And no other distro I found seemed to have anything but a single out-dated driver pre-packaged. Not that I've looked in a while.

    The Prisoner's Dilemma, in english - "Selfishness beats altruism within groups. Altruistic groups beat selfish groups." - Quoted part from 2007, D.S Wilson/E.O Wilson.
  • Seairth,
    The conversation's gone a bit off-topic...
    How so?

    People wanting to switch to some other OS because of the nightmare that is Windows update. And realizing they are not in control of their own machines seems quite reasonable.

    The Spectre and Meltdown situation highlights the dire situation Windows users find themselves in.


  • Heater. wrote: »
    Seairth,
    The conversation's gone a bit off-topic...
    How so?

    People wanting to switch to some other OS because of the nightmare that is Windows update. And realizing they are not in control of their own machines seems quite reasonable.

    The Spectre and Meltdown situation highlights the dire situation Windows users find themselves in.

    Linux required patches for Spectre and Meltdown, too. So, I don't see how yet another Windows vs. Linux discussion has anything to do with the main topic. If you want to make sure your are protected from Spectre and Meltown, you will have to update your OS (in this case, specifically Windows and Linux).
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 20,075
    edited January 10 Vote Up0Vote Down
    Yes indeed. I did not imply that Linux and everything that runs on it does not need fixing up for security and other reasons all the time. Same as any OS or major piece of software.

    The issue is one of control:

    Who decides what gets updated and when?

    On a side note: Who decides what information gets sent to who knows where in "telemetry" that is hard to turn off?

    The user of a system is stuck between a rock and a hard place:

    1) On the one hand there is a vulnerability in the CPU/operating system/applications/whatever, that might, possibly, maybe, allow bad guys to access their secrets. There is no known exploit of this vulnerability in the wild though.

    2) On the other hand there is an update for the CPU(firmware)/operating system/applications/whatever that claims to fix the issue above. It is not known if this update will brick the machine or break some application or what. It is known that such updates do.

    So the user has to evaluate the risk. Only he knows what the costs to him will be if things go bad.

    For a home user, having a machine bricked by update for a day might be an inconvenience as he cannot get to Facebook.

    In other situations downtime costs money, or more.

    So, where were we?

    Oh yeah. Over the years I have seen many Windows updates render machines or applications unuseable. Might be nice if a user had the opportunity to evaluate the effects of an update before allowing it.













  • Heater. wrote: »
    The issue is one of control:

    Who decides what gets updated and when?

    I thought this thread was about the impact of Spectre and Meltdown (see thread title). If this is really just another opportunity to have the Windows vs. Linux discussion, then I clearly misunderstood.
  • Clock LoopClock Loop Posts: 1,376
    edited January 10 Vote Up0Vote Down
    Seairth wrote: »
    I thought this thread was about the impact of Spectre and Meltdown (see thread title).

    The imact on me is that I will need to replace my water in my water cooling computer, with radiator fluid, and superchill it just to run a modern OS on an intel processor.
    And put java in my firewall block list, and my "bills process manager" program and cpu monitor.
    I can just have bill, kill, java every time its invoked...
    Perhaps a few coverages are all one needs?

    Meanwhile Intels profits are at record highs, and will continue to be, and no one, at all, will ever suggest that intel clean up their mistakes, instead 30% more cpu power use will happen all over the planet.




    Heres an IMPACT to discuss. Since the planet is melting and all...
    Hey shouldn't the EPA have a problem with intel allowing all that carbon waste in the form of wasted cpu power?
    ...Just cause they didn't want to recall and replace faulty product?

    Whats more important, intel having money(like they can't borrow more), or the planets carbon output?
    Id like to see that discussion end up on the front page.

    " INTEL KILLS PLANET, SAVES MONEY "
    To study the nature of randomness in a digital processor network using the same clock source, 54 prop chips were all connected to a master prop. http://forums.parallax.com/discussion/127983/55-parallax-propeller-s-parallells-processing-of-permanent-perturbations/p1
    Optic communication between homogenous and commensurable, 8-core, 635nm emitting, phase locked loop, bit salad tossing units? http://forums.parallax.com/discussion/comment/1248240/#Comment_1248240
    TheBlackBox: Release v2.0 - Propeller HSS FX/Sequencer with Digital Audio SPDIF output. http://forums.parallax.com/discussion/115258/theblackbox-release-v2-0-propeller-hss-fx-sequencer-with-digital-audio-spdif
    E-Tools - Mono555 calculator, resistor calculator, voltage divider calculator, RCtime calculator, LM317 calculator, Binary-Hex-Decimal calculator, Resistor color matrix, Series LED resistance calculator, OHMS LAW calculator.
    http://forums.parallax.com/discussion/81449/e-tools-html-java-script-electronic-design-tools-free-for-you
  • Seairth wrote: »
    Heater. wrote: »
    The issue is one of control:

    Who decides what gets updated and when?

    I thought this thread was about the impact of Spectre and Meltdown (see thread title). If this is really just another opportunity to have the Windows vs. Linux discussion, then I clearly misunderstood.

    Along those lines, here is an interesting article published today Seems to be much ado about nothing for most users.
    Any com port in a storm.
    Floating point numbers will be our downfall; count on it.
    Imagine a world without hypothetical situations.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 20,075
    edited January 10 Vote Up0Vote Down
    Indeed it is about the impact of Spectre and Meltdown. That is why I started it. An operating system and CPU vendor neutral problem.

    What has followed is a "do I control my machine or not" discussion. Which seems appropriate under the circumstances.

    Interpret that as "Windows vs Linux" if you like.

    Me, I'm writing this on a Win10 machine that I have been using everyday for nearly two years. It runs all my old favourite software from the Linux world just fine :)

    Underneath all the details of Spectre and Meltdown is an awareness that there are side channels, or "covert" channels as they were called when I worked on secure software years ago, that can crop up in unexpected ways if you are not paying attention.

    In this case it seems to be a confluence of architectural features:

    Speculative execution.
    Processor caches.
    High precision timers.
    Shared memory.

    Each of which is harmless but together they conspire to make it possible to get through all the logical protections processors have.

    Who would have guessed?






  • Clock LoopClock Loop Posts: 1,376
    edited January 10 Vote Up0Vote Down
    Heater. wrote: »

    In this case it seems to be a confluence of architectural features:

    Speculative execution.
    Processor caches.
    High precision timers.
    Shared memory.

    Each of which is harmless but together they conspire to make it possible to get through all the logical protections processors have.

    Who would have guessed?


    Guess? We haven't de-evolved have we?

    Are we back to spearing in the dark caves at beasts in the shadow of our campfire?

    Sure, mabee most have forgotten about the 80's when companies actually wanted to make sure their products lasted.
    They tested them.. And tested the crap out of them.
    Most of that testing was done in suburbia, huge firms based on hardware and software testing of products...

    When product reliability, testing, and product line inspection went over seas.. well..
    Simply put, an entire culture of "cost down", eliminated product testing and inspection.
    Why do it when it lowers the volume a human can possibly produce. (and quantity is most important)


    Do you realize how much ABUSE my 1986 NINTENDO controller took back then?

    I'm convinced they tested the Nintendo controller in a nuclear blast, and re-engineered it, until it survived the blast.

    Some products today, when you open the package, surface mount parts, fall out of the package.


    Spectre and Meltdown?


    Whats funny... is most defensive and offensive devices... all use companies products that undergo the same cuts in inspections/testing... its a plague... and will probably cause human extinction, simply by a lack of testing products, a mistake.
    So you say milspec? Intel chips couldn't possibly be milspec.. uh oh...

    We can talk about milspec till the cows come home, then I will ask you to step into the sensor manufacturing plant at SICK INC,....
    ..... and inspect their soldering guns, take note of what temperature they are ALL set at. (someone should loose their job over that one)

    Now, also when you are IN the plant, take note of what brand name rotary encoders they manufacture.

    Im kinda surprised the planet hasen't already melted from the things Ive seen allowed on product manufacturing floors.
    To study the nature of randomness in a digital processor network using the same clock source, 54 prop chips were all connected to a master prop. http://forums.parallax.com/discussion/127983/55-parallax-propeller-s-parallells-processing-of-permanent-perturbations/p1
    Optic communication between homogenous and commensurable, 8-core, 635nm emitting, phase locked loop, bit salad tossing units? http://forums.parallax.com/discussion/comment/1248240/#Comment_1248240
    TheBlackBox: Release v2.0 - Propeller HSS FX/Sequencer with Digital Audio SPDIF output. http://forums.parallax.com/discussion/115258/theblackbox-release-v2-0-propeller-hss-fx-sequencer-with-digital-audio-spdif
    E-Tools - Mono555 calculator, resistor calculator, voltage divider calculator, RCtime calculator, LM317 calculator, Binary-Hex-Decimal calculator, Resistor color matrix, Series LED resistance calculator, OHMS LAW calculator.
    http://forums.parallax.com/discussion/81449/e-tools-html-java-script-electronic-design-tools-free-for-you
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