The Electric Car Has Come of Age

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  • Correction the Tesla does use a heating element
  • Well, dur, of course if you hammer anything it's going to have less range. Typically driving around town or commuting in the Bay Area there is not much possibility to be burning rubber.

    What about the opposite? I imagine all those Teslas running around the Bay have air conditioning. Which perhaps sucks as much energy as needing heating in Helsinki.



  • Probing deeper into the model S battery pack. Basically 18,650 each of the lithium ion AA. That would be the 3.7 volt 1000ma 18500 series. Broken into 42 ea. 24 volt battery packs. Each 24 volt battery pack contains 444 ea. AA's. Each battery pack weighs about 55 lbs. X 42 = 2310 lbs.
    These cell's retail for about 3 bucks each on Amazon. So I guess if your buying 18,650 cells you could get the price down to a $1 each still $18,650.00 US. I wonder what the digikey price is.
  • The 18500 and 18650 cells are a bit longer than AA's but it's a size comparison.
  • I need to correct my pack count it's 16 packs of 444 cells per pack. I forgot only the end packs are double stacked. Single stack in the rest of the pan. So about 7100 cells . The pan is laid out 7 packs per side (14 plus 2 double stacked on the end)
  • TorTor Posts: 1,760
    edited September 14 Vote Up0Vote Down
    wmosscrop wrote: »
    DigitalBob wrote: »
    Battery technology is here when the range is 600 miles+ with full a/c running in the Arizona dessert. And a 10 minute full recharge time.(lights on )
    Tor wrote: »
    DigitalBob wrote: »
    Battery technology is here when the range is 600 miles+ with full a/c running in the Arizona dessert. And a 10 minute full recharge time.(lights on )
    Hmm.. my gasoline car can't do that. Not even close. Too small fuel thank.

    (My usual rambling reply)

    But you can refuel - at many, many stations, in Arizona - in about 5 minutes. If it takes longer than 10 minutes to recharge, then how many recharging connections will be needed at a station along an interstate? How much will they have to charge (pun intended) to recoup their investment if they can only charge 30-40 vehicles a day per connection?
    Come on, 600 miles? That's about 965 kilometers.. I haven't driven that far in one go since I was around 20. It would be a trip of maybe 15 hours. If I ever did that again, I would take a long break, an hour, or more likely two. Heck, I take long breaks on what would be 6 hours drives, which is the longest I drive these days, and that's only once a year. In other words, if I really need to go far I would also want to take breaks long enough to recharge.
    But I can buy that you'll need to go far *sometimes*. I go once a year, and a couple more times out of town. But the rest of the year? I'm driving to and from work. Day after day. I could as well have an electric. If I had the money, and space for two cars I would buy one, for 99% of my driving. But I don't have the space, and I already have a gasoline car.

    As to Bob's argument about heating - yeah, I know about WV buses.. and beetles.. they're cold. My father had several WVs when I grew up. And I and a friend drove his WV when we were students, we went to college every day in that one. Without the Eberspächer heater that the previous owner thoughtfully installed we whould have been in trouble. But, you know, in this same area (arctic northern Norway), that's where all those electrics I mentioned are (where I didn't explicitly talk about Japan). And these cars have no heating issues, unlike those old air-cooled boxer-engine cars. (I bet it's pretty cold in Heater.'s Finland too. Ah yeah, I see he mentioned -20C).

    To me the discussion sounds like the opponents are still talking about electric cars of ten years ago or more. Things have changed. And very quietly so.


  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 19,546
    edited September 14 Vote Up0Vote Down
    Interesting. My friend had an old Beetle when we were students back in the late 1970's. I used to complain that it was to damn hot. In the winter!
    I don't recall that he had any special heating setup. In fact it was impossible to turn it off.

    The opponents do have a point. It not that that they are thinking of electric cars of 10 years ago. Rather they are arguing a use case that does not exist 99.999% of the time.

    I don't even own one car. Haven't done so for 20 years. There's no point. When I want to go on a long road trip I rent one. Job done. Much cheaper. No hassle.

    You may be interested in this chaps story of his electric VW Samba, 266 mile range last I heard:



    Or 1200 Miles on 2 recycled Tesla Battery Packs:



    This is the kind of thing Propeller forum nerds should be doing. Rather than exclaiming that it does not work! :)







  • @Heater,

    at least I can solve that one. all Air-cooled VWs had a little flap, moved by some bowden cable to either let the hot air into the passenger part, or not.

    Usually that flap or the Bowden cable stopped functioning because of rust. So after some years all VW split into two groups, those with constant heat all year around, or no heat at all.

    Mike
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    The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this post are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119.
  • Ah, a Bowden cable. That sounds very likely.

    Like my old BSA 650 Thunderbolt. Sometimes it had a clutch and a front brake. Sometimes not !

  • Heater. wrote: »
    The opponents do have a point. It not that that they are thinking of electric cars of 10 years ago. Rather they are arguing a use case that does not exist 99.999% of the time.
    You're right I guess. But then again that argument can be used about just any car.. including my gasoline car: Too short to transport my bicycle in the back (my old one could). So it's useless then.. :)

  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 19,546
    edited September 14 Vote Up0Vote Down
    Here we go. 750 miles on one charge. Normal car, normal roads, normal driving. Home made with recycled batteries.

  • Heater. wrote: »
    Here we go. 750 miles on one charge. Normal car, normal roads, normal driving. Home made with recycled batteries.

    Pretty impressive. I can only get 550 miles with my truck with a 42 gallon tank. It is a 7.4 liter though. :)
    Infernal Machine
  • Or be a REAL early adopter and go fuel cell for a cool $57,500: https://ssl.toyota.com/mirai/fcv.html?dfaid=DFA:794937:204351775:320100858:74711808

    3 years' worth of complimentary fuel
    $5,000 CA rebate
    - Current program funding exhausted. Applicants will be placed on waitlist until additional funding is allocated.


    I live in LA, which probably has more hydrogen stations than anywhere, and I would never consider one. Let's pay more for less!
    "When you make a thing, a thing that is new, it is so complicated making it that it is bound to be ugly. But those that make it after you, they don’t have to worry about making it. And they can make it pretty, and so everybody can like it when others make it after you."

    - Pablo Picasso
  • The beetles had metal baffles around the exhaust manifolds that acted as heat exchangers. It really didn't work and if you had an exhaust leak you'd be breathing carbon monoxide. However the Beetles make a good electric car retrofit.
  • I liked that 75 fuel injected super beetle and the bus with the popup tent. (The peoples car)
  • Come on, 600 miles? That's about 965 kilometers.. I haven't driven that far in one go since I was around 20. It would be a trip of maybe 15 hours.

    Speed limit is 70-75 miles per hour (112+ kilometers per hour). So 600 miles could be done in 10 hours even with breaks. And (on our trip) my wife and I took turns driving. Cruise control really helps.



    Tulsa, OK

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  • There's no 2-year waitlist for a Chevy Bolt.

    "When you make a thing, a thing that is new, it is so complicated making it that it is bound to be ugly. But those that make it after you, they don’t have to worry about making it. And they can make it pretty, and so everybody can like it when others make it after you."

    - Pablo Picasso
  • That's cos' it's ugly as hell! :)
  • ercoerco Posts: 18,327
    edited September 16 Vote Up0Vote Down
    Heater. wrote: »
    That's cos' it's ugly as hell! :)

    No such thing as an ugly car. It's distinctive.

    When our twin girls were born, many people raved about how beautiful they were (are). Of course this dad agrees. My aunt back in Carolina says, "If your baby is beautiful, people will say that. Otherwise, your baby is 'Precious'. "

    "When you make a thing, a thing that is new, it is so complicated making it that it is bound to be ugly. But those that make it after you, they don’t have to worry about making it. And they can make it pretty, and so everybody can like it when others make it after you."

    - Pablo Picasso
  • FWIW when our kids were growing up, every second weekend during the winter we went to the snow to ski. 950km round trip on the one tank of fuel (Toyota Prado Landcruiser). I don't expect an electric vehicle would do that for some time yet.

    But our other car (Toyota Supra) was only used for short range trips. Ideal for an electric vehicle replacement, and the one used for work traffic.

    I expect electric vehicle will follow the same path that LCD screens did on the PC. First users were prepared to pay big $$$ to replace their clunky 20" VGA (tube based) screens. Once the price went below $1000 the rest of the users followed so fast that the price had barely broken the $1000 barrier, and then they were sub $600, all due to volume production. CRT screens died so quickly!!! IMHO we will see the same effect with electric vehicles once they approach the small vehicle pricing. And once there, volumes will take over and they will be much cheaper than the small gasoline/diesel cars. End of the small gasoline/diesel cars.
    My Prop boards: P8XBlade2, RamBlade, CpuBlade, TriBlade
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  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 19,546
    edited September 16 Vote Up0Vote Down
    erco,

    As my friend said when my son was born, "Every mother thinks her baby is beautiful. It's the only thing that stops them from throwing them out of the window"

  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,099
    edited September 16 Vote Up0Vote Down
    These cars are all designed by computer these days. They look remarkably alike -- the Bolt looks like a sporty Honda Fit, with a couple of other car designs thrown in.

    No longer are cars designed just for looks. Not aerodynamic. It creates some truly horrific design lines, IMO. The front end of the current Lexus sport coupes look like the 80s Battlestar Gallactica Cylons to me. Ugh.

    Forget the Blonde in the Ferrari (National Lampoon's Vacation). She now drives a computer-designed Toyota Yaris. Complete with a frowning and even uglier Cylon.
  • These cars are all designed by computer these days. They look remarkably alike -- the Bolt looks like a sporty Honda Fit, with a couple of other car designs thrown in.

    No longer are cars designed just for looks. Not aerodynamic. It creates some truly horrific design lines, IMO. The front end of the current Lexus sport coupes look like the 80s Battlestar Gallactica Cylons to me. Ugh.

    Forget the Blonde in the Ferrari (National Lampoon's Vacation). She now drives a computer-designed Toyota Yaris. Complete with a frowning and even uglier Cylon.

    Made me look those cars up, you're spot on with the Cylon look, just need a Larson scanner behind the windshield.

  • Tesla S drive motor. I saw some drive motor specs.. Basically a four pole motor (3600 rpm @60hz, ) 215Kw, 380 volt cranks out 14,000 rpm @120 mph. So that should be about 230 Hz. on the VFD drive.
  • Excellent. Just what I want. Not so cheap but comparable with the regular mountain bikes in my local bike store.
  • TorTor Posts: 1,760
    edited September 23 Vote Up0Vote Down
    In EU that bicycle must be registered as a motorcycle, complete with license plate.
  • Not if you buy the version that is speed limited.
  • Here -- at least in Washington -- electric bikes do not have to be registered and licensed if they cannot exceed 20 m.p.h. under power. Of course, you're still allowed to pedal them faster than that.

    -Phil
    “Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
  • As far as I know the EU rules limit the assist to 25 km/h (at which point it must switch off), and only be active when you're pedalling. Otherwise it's a motorbike.
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