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Thread: Enameled Steel wire???

  1. #1

    Default Enameled Steel wire???

    Anyone know of a decent supplier for Enameled Steel wire or perhaps have some that they would be willing to part with? ... I'm looking for a couple hundred feet, but I don't want to spend a huge amount. Something along the lines of 22 gauge to 30 gauge would be ok.

    Thanks
    Beau Schwabe | Parallax Semiconductor
    IC Layout Engineer
    Parallax Inc. * 599 Menlo Drive * Rocklin California 95765
    www.parallaxsemiconductor.com



    Asked about the ramifications of his discoveries, Hertz replied, "Nothing, I guess." Hertz also stated, "I do not think that the wireless waves I have discovered will have any practical application."
    www.BScircuitdesigns.com: IC's * Inductive proximity sensors * Misc

  2. #2

    Default Re: Enameled Steel wire???

    Quote Originally Posted by Beau Schwabe (Parallax) View Post
    Anyone know of a decent supplier for Enameled Steel wire or perhaps have some that they would be willing to part with? ... I'm looking for a couple hundred feet, but I don't want to spend a huge amount. Something along the lines of 22 gauge to 30 gauge would be ok.

    Thanks
    Would this work?

    http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2036277

    One spool is 200 ft of 30 ga.
    I have three propellers

  3. #3

    Default Re: Enameled Steel wire???

    hover1,

    Nope, that's enameled copper.... I specifically need enameled steel. Same idea though. :-)
    Beau Schwabe | Parallax Semiconductor
    IC Layout Engineer
    Parallax Inc. * 599 Menlo Drive * Rocklin California 95765
    www.parallaxsemiconductor.com



    Asked about the ramifications of his discoveries, Hertz replied, "Nothing, I guess." Hertz also stated, "I do not think that the wireless waves I have discovered will have any practical application."
    www.BScircuitdesigns.com: IC's * Inductive proximity sensors * Misc

  4. #4

    Default Re: Enameled Steel wire???

    Sorry Beau. Pulled the trigger too fast and didn't read.
    I have three propellers

  5. #5

    Default Re: Enameled Steel wire???

    "Stainless" (whatever that implies) not enameled: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Roll-Steel...item3f1094283a

    And this one says "nylon coated stainless"... http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-Spools-Siz...item5d3157bf5d

  6. #6

    Default Re: Enameled Steel wire???

    hover, No problem...

    Basically I'm using it for two modes of operation....

    1) Power applied to the coil provides conventional coil characteristics, however using steel wire benefits in providing it's own iron core.
    2) The coil, because it's enameled, acts as a laminated toroid ring to transfer magnetic flux between additional primary and secondary coils

    ...The experiment is nothing really bizarre, other than a method to minimize or completely eliminate detents in a generator/motor design to help increase efficiency and power transfer.


    Thanks Erco, will look into at least one of those links... the first one doesn't look like it's insulated.
    Beau Schwabe | Parallax Semiconductor
    IC Layout Engineer
    Parallax Inc. * 599 Menlo Drive * Rocklin California 95765
    www.parallaxsemiconductor.com



    Asked about the ramifications of his discoveries, Hertz replied, "Nothing, I guess." Hertz also stated, "I do not think that the wireless waves I have discovered will have any practical application."
    www.BScircuitdesigns.com: IC's * Inductive proximity sensors * Misc

  7. #7

    Default Re: Enameled Steel wire???

    Beau,

    I've seen examples of coated "beading wire", but it all seems to be stranded instead of solid. 'Probably a lot harder to strip and make a connection to...

    -Phil

  8. #8
    zoopydogsit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enameled Steel wire???

    Hi Beau,
    That's brilliant!

    I'd thought in the past doing a similar thing to build low weight linear motors for bipeds. Steel/another magnetic wire may be just the trick to get the power/weight/lift right without the use of iron cores.

    Seriously cool idea.
    It's all a function of time

  9. #9
    $WMc%'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Enameled Steel wire???

    Beau...
    '
    Stainless is considered NON-Frerros...Its really low in iron.
    __Walt McDonald__


    It's not rocket-surgery
    I see why we don't have any water,All of the pipes are full of wires!
    E=WMc2
    Now with WiFi
    Not in the Spin Bunch
    import RPi.GPIO as GPIO

    ABB M202 certified
    ABB M211 certified

  10. #10

    Default Re: Enameled Steel wire???

    $WMc%,

    "Stainless is considered NON-Frerros...Its really low in iron." - yeah, I know, but for proof of concept, if that works the way I envision, then I can move towards a more bizarre requirement. right now, if the wire will 'stick' to a magnet without being powered it will do the job for what I am looking for.
    Beau Schwabe | Parallax Semiconductor
    IC Layout Engineer
    Parallax Inc. * 599 Menlo Drive * Rocklin California 95765
    www.parallaxsemiconductor.com



    Asked about the ramifications of his discoveries, Hertz replied, "Nothing, I guess." Hertz also stated, "I do not think that the wireless waves I have discovered will have any practical application."
    www.BScircuitdesigns.com: IC's * Inductive proximity sensors * Misc

  11. #11

    Default Re: Enameled Steel wire???

    Quote Originally Posted by Beau Schwabe (Parallax) View Post
    ...
    Power applied to the coil provides conventional coil characteristics, however using steel wire benefits in providing it's own iron core.....
    Beau,
    do you happen to have a reference behind the theory of this design?

    McMaster sells 1008 alloy steel PVC coated, 0.062 inch, 245 feet, for about 10 dollars. #8867K25. I don't know what it's electrical resistance is, though.
    EDIT: but I guess that's too big for what you want.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Enameled Steel wire???

    Quote Originally Posted by Beau Schwabe (Parallax) View Post
    ...

    "Stainless is considered NON-Frerros...Its really low in iron." - yeah, I know...
    I think what you're really talking about is that some stainless steels are non-magnetic. Stainless steels are composed mostly of iron, but maybe some people talk about them as being non-ferrous when they recycle them or something.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Enameled Steel wire???

    ElectricAye,

    "do you happen to have a reference behind the theory of this design?" - Other than technology that hasn't changed in over 100 years ... the idea is for a mechanical version of a toroid transformer being used as a generator with a specific goal in mind to minimize detents as the generator is being rotated.

    Let me re-phrase... the primary of the toroid transformer would be mechanical in nature


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformer
    Citation:
    "...Early transformer developers soon realized that cores constructed from solid iron resulted in prohibitive eddy-current losses, and their designs mitigated this effect with cores consisting of bundles of insulated iron wires..."



    Think of a toroid transformer, the enameled steel wire would serve as a laminated core allowing me to adjust the shape of it however I need.

    Now remove the primary coil... matter of fact, cut a notch out of the toroid where the primary would be ... now you have a C instead of an O

    The opening of the C insert a rotating disk with alternating N/S magnets and minimize the air gap as much as possible ... essentially that is your new primary...BUT!!! ...you have severe detents to overcome moving from one pole to the next.

    A solution is to spread out the open ends of each C so that the abutting C partially interdigitates into it's neighbor... The idea is to create a monolithic array of 'points' that the N/S magnets can 'see' equally .... you still have Eddie resistance to overcome, but most of that gets directly converted to power. The detents are all but gone with this approach. Reverse power and sequence the coils and you essentially have a stepper.
    Last edited by Beau Schwabe (Parallax); 11-26-2011 at 09:09 PM.
    Beau Schwabe | Parallax Semiconductor
    IC Layout Engineer
    Parallax Inc. * 599 Menlo Drive * Rocklin California 95765
    www.parallaxsemiconductor.com



    Asked about the ramifications of his discoveries, Hertz replied, "Nothing, I guess." Hertz also stated, "I do not think that the wireless waves I have discovered will have any practical application."
    www.BScircuitdesigns.com: IC's * Inductive proximity sensors * Misc

  14. #14
    $WMc%'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Enameled Steel wire???

    I have made some Toroidal transformers back in the day. I used 16GA. low carbon steel " tie wire " something like 1008 or 1010,really soft and easy to work with..After winding the core on a "Dough-nut" shaped form. I melted down some wax and soaked the core in this.It helped to reduce the eddy's and silence the rattles.
    '
    I used these to hot-rod high power car audio amps back when I was younger.
    '
    I never could find any thin insulated iron wire....
    Last edited by $WMc%; 11-27-2011 at 01:01 AM.
    __Walt McDonald__


    It's not rocket-surgery
    I see why we don't have any water,All of the pipes are full of wires!
    E=WMc2
    Now with WiFi
    Not in the Spin Bunch
    import RPi.GPIO as GPIO

    ABB M202 certified
    ABB M211 certified

  15. #15

    Default Re: Enameled Steel wire???

    Quote Originally Posted by Beau Schwabe (Parallax) View Post
    .... using steel wire benefits in providing it's own iron core....
    Quote Originally Posted by ElectricAye View Post
    Beau,
    do you happen to have a reference behind the theory of this design? ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Beau Schwabe (Parallax) View Post
    ... Other than technology that hasn't changed in over 100 years .......
    I guess I misunderstood what you were saying. I thought you were trying to make a single coil of steel wire serve as both the source of a magnetic field and its own iron core at the same time, which I don't think is possible since the turns of wires that rest side by side have their "cheek-to-cheek" magnetic fields cancel out, leaving a resulting magnetic field concentrated in the core and more dispersed outside the solenoid. In that case I don't think very much magnetic field could go through the steel wire at all. At least... I think not.


  16. #16
    $WMc%'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Enameled Steel wire???

    ElectircAye
    '
    I think your way over thinking this...
    __Walt McDonald__


    It's not rocket-surgery
    I see why we don't have any water,All of the pipes are full of wires!
    E=WMc2
    Now with WiFi
    Not in the Spin Bunch
    import RPi.GPIO as GPIO

    ABB M202 certified
    ABB M211 certified

  17. #17

    Default Re: Enameled Steel wire???

    Hmm...

    http://www.amazon.com/Pound-Plastic-...382380&sr=1-15 - plastic coated stainless steel framing wire. I'm not sure of the gauge...

    >http://www.amazon.com/Pound-Plastic-...d_sim_sbs_hi_2 - cheaper than the above link but you get twice as much wire it seems

    There are some nylon coated ones and a number of vinyl coated stranded stainless steel wires: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...ted+steel+wire

    I'll keep looking!
    Whisker is a hardware and wetware hacker, and produces geeky content on a daily basis. Atdiy is a cardiovascular nurse by day and an electronics n00b at night. Together we're the Toymakers (Tymkrs) and we post videos/blogs on electronics, DIY projects, and whatever else we happen upon! Visit us at http://tymkrs.com, http://zombietech.tv, and http://firstspin.tv! Our projects are on http://tymkrs.com/forum and you can chat with us daily at #tymkrs!

  18. #18

    Default Re: Enameled Steel wire???

    @ElectricAye
    I am just guessing here, but from the picture you posted, if that same wire was not only coiled like shown, but also being wrapped with a coil around it, wouldn't that work as its own core? Similar to a toroid?? Wouldn't that be a transformer within itself??

    Click image for larger version

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    My multimeter blew a fuse last night or I would have tested this, need to get some fuses when the store opens after 9.
    Last edited by Jorge P; 11-27-2011 at 11:01 AM. Reason: Added Photo
    http://WhatsAvailable.org will be closing down in Feb 2012 due to the OfficeLive.com shutdown on that date, it would have been nice to have some type of notification about it before now, but it will not be back up after that date.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Enameled Steel wire???

    @Beau Schwabe
    This company will give you the conductor of your choice: http://www.phoenixwireinc.com/ their site boasts Teflon coated, but they also make Magnet wire.
    http://WhatsAvailable.org will be closing down in Feb 2012 due to the OfficeLive.com shutdown on that date, it would have been nice to have some type of notification about it before now, but it will not be back up after that date.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Enameled Steel wire???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge P View Post
    ...if that same wire was not only coiled like shown, but also being wrapped with a coil around it, wouldn't that work as its own core?....
    Jorge,

    please don't confuse me with somebody who really knows what he's talking about. But it seems to me that the large wire (let's call it L) in your picture could indeed serve as a core for the smaller wire (S) coiled around it. However, I don't think the mass of metal provided by S could serve as a very effective core for the coil of L: it seems to me that the mass of S would be located in a position that wouldn't "capture" very much of the magnetic field resulting from L. Also, I think the effective "magnetic density" (permittivity?) of the S metal would be reduced because it's "diluted" by so much insulation, etc.

    Also, I wasn't under the impression that's what Beau was talking about. I thought he was trying to use the very same wire to act as both coil and core.

    But, again, I'm not sure about any of this. I'm just intrigued by what Beau was talking about and probably poked my nose into something I shouldn't have.

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