Visual Studio Shell

[Mike Huselton]

The evil overlords have released free for use of the Visual Studio Shell with all of the hooks to make it integrated with ANY compiler.
I submit for your approval: msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vsx2008/products/bb933751.aspx

If MS products, even free, taint your computer then move along folks, nothing to see here.

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
JMH

[Praxis]

Been there done that and still having nightmares.

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Adaequatio Rei Et Intellectus

[Mike Huselton]

What nightmares? Be specific and others may learn from your experiences.

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
JMH

[CounterRotatingProps]

James, have you tried anything serious with this?

If it's anything like the much touted Visual Express stuff, it'll suck dinosaur eggs.

Cheers,
Howard
(MS developer since MS incorporated)

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery.

[Microcontrolled]

Intresting.....Is Visual Basic the same as Visual Studio?

P.S CRP just made the 100,000 post in the Prop forum

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Toys are microcontroled.
Robots are microcontroled.
I am microcontrolled.

[jazzed]

I enjoy the Visual Express stuff. It is better in many ways than the Visual Studio 6.0 vintage products to me anyway. I still rely on Visual Studio 2003 for drawing Icons though (not that I'm any good at it :). I agree a list of the biggest issues (other than what might be missing because of the "cripple-ware" concept) would help explain some of the displeasure. Not sure if I really want to learn how to use the shell thingy right away though since I will most likely have to learn a new set of special incantations.

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
--Steve


Propalyzer: Propeller PC Logic Analyzer
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=788230

[Mike Huselton]

No crippleware. I will try integrating several compilers we (the hobby community) have written. Also, I want to try Eclipse. Depending on my health, I'll try to accomplish as much as I can.

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
JMH

[ImageCraft]

As mentioned a few times, we have been looking at option for our Next-gen IDE for a few months now, and the VS shell is / was one of the options. I rejected Eclipse because a) it's too big, and b) it's too big. VS 2008 looks good, but making our future depends on M$ even more than it already is, is not a palatable option. We even thought about adopting other commercial IDEs but it just fails in some criteria and others.

In the end, we are settling on code::Blocks. The only thing holding us is the resource needed to do the work

// richard

[kuroneko]

ImageCraft said...
I rejected Eclipse because a) it's too big, and b) it's too big. VS 2008 looks good, ...

I'm not sure I follow. What I found on my various computers comes down to this:

• eclipse PDE + CDT: 220M (no JRE)
• eclipse CDT based IDE (C/C++ development but 3rd party toolchain), with/out JRE: 156M/71M
• VS2005: 210M
• VS2008: 810M

So even discounting the rather heavy VS2008 installation, eclipse doesn't look too bad.

[jazzed]

I'm very fond of the Eclipse Java platform workspace. The C workspace is not as good as that for Java.

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
--Steve


Propalyzer: Propeller PC Logic Analyzer
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=788230

[ImageCraft]

kuroneko said...

ImageCraft said...
I rejected Eclipse because a) it's too big, and b) it's too big. VS 2008 looks good, ...

I'm not sure I follow. What I found on my various computers comes down to this:

• eclipse PDE + CDT: 220M (no JRE)
• eclipse CDT based IDE (C/C++ development but 3rd party toolchain), with/out JRE: 156M/71M
• VS2005: 210M
• VS2008: 810M

So even discounting the rather heavy VS2008 installation, eclipse doesn't look too bad.

We have a lot of different types of customers, and Eclipse memory and CPU footprints would just never fly for some of them.

c::B would be a much lighter weight solution.

Nevertheless, we do have customers who use Eclipse. Since we fully support makefiles and command line tools, it's not a problem. In fact, a customer wrote an Eclipse plugin for one of our compilers and apparently it works well.

As a platform to be delivered by ImageCraft though, it just has too much baggage. YMMV.

[Praxis]

JMH said...
What nightmares? Be specific and others may learn from your experiences.

Nightmares aside an 800mbyte deployment is a bit over the top!

Cheers

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Adaequatio Rei Et Intellectus

[Mike Huselton]

Thank you.

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
JMH

[Toby Seckshund]

800Mb !!!!! Where has all that is good, gone? Makes the art of cramming everything into 32Kb look like a miricle.

I wonder just how much the figure could be optimised, given a chance. I was onto my third PC before I had a HD big enough for that, and was running W95.

[Mike Huselton]

Why is Microsoft evil? Sun and all of the smaller guys are "good". Marketing practices aside, what makes Microsoft bad? I've been in the business 30 years, and a lot of crappy software has come from the "little guys". Grow up. Also, what makes you take the 800mb statement as truth? Do you know what you are talking about?

A little harsh, perhaps. But knee jerk reactions affect me this way.

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
JMH

Post Edited (James Michael Huselton) : 6/5/2009 1:30:15 AM GMT

[kuroneko]

Before everyone sees red about the 800MB statement, that's what I found to be the size of my installation. I do have some other packages/SDKs installed which may well have deposited some of their libraries in there. So YMMV. My point was that eclipse isn't exactly big compared to VS.

[heater]

James: "Why is Microsoft Evil?"

The detailed answer to that question could take us up to the next 100,000th post in itself !

"Marketing practices aside..." That's a big "aside" to make. Those marketing practices get built into the software itself in so many ways. Product activation for one example.

But lets just narrow it down to the case that is the topic of this thread. You, as a guy with enough intellect, smarts and a life time of experience, have the desire and where with all to create a very nice IDE to make life easy for users of Catlina, HomeSpun etc, etc. A very worth while effort. And you would like to be able to make that effort available for free to the Propeller community.

However there is some powerful, invisible, evil force that is a wall between us preventing me from making any use of of all your skill and effort.

You see I do not run Windows. Why? Could be the evil, or the marketing practices or the desire not to be locked in etc. Could be that I can't justify paying for it. Could be I'd rather give my support to those busy toiling to create an alternative. Could be that Windows is just not convenient or helpful to me to do the work that I do (which is true).

So despite your good intentions and my grateful acceptance there is that wall between us. From my perspective it is sucking your intellect, skill, effort and good will into a black hole from which it will never emerge. That just looks "evil" from here.

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
For me, the past is not over yet.

[Mike Huselton]

So you see yourself as the hero of the oppressed proletariat. That explains a lot.

Let's forget this particular issue. My respect for you as a coder is undiminished. Let's remain friends. You are welcome to visit Austin anytime.

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
JMH

[Mike Huselton]

ImageCraft,

Thank you for your job offer last year. I am sure we will meet again in the future.

p.s. I just installed Codeblocks. What a breeze!

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
JMH

Post Edited (James Michael Huselton) : 6/5/2009 7:17:27 AM GMT

[heater]

James: "Let's forget this particular issue" Yes let's. As i said it could take forever to slug out. It will come back again anyway:)

But please, "So you see yourself as the hero of the oppressed proletariat" is not called for. No, I don't see myself as the hero of anyone and it does not explain anything. Mostly I'm too arrogant to give two hoots for the oppressed proletariat, whoever they may be, perhaps I'm one myself.

Let's remain friends, and let's be up for the occasional disagreement and heated debate. That makes friendship interesting:)

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
For me, the past is not over yet.