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Sapieha
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  		   Posted 5/1/2009 10:54 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi SLRM.

Transistor is ok. I used a BC337.

Capacitors is not so fine. You must have Tantalum in C2, C3

Nothing is impossible, there are only different degrees of difficulty.

For every stupid question there is at least one intelligent answer.

Don't guess - ask instead.

If you don't ask you won't know.

If your gonna construct something, make it as simple as possible yet as versatile as posible.
 
Sapieha

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Oldbitcollector
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  		   Posted 5/3/2009 3:29 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Finally got mine built! After I fudged the tantalum caps.
(had my eyes fixed for distance after I got cataracts removed!)

Chickened out on the USB interface and went tri-propplug.
I bought all the stuff to completely populate the board, but so far I've only
installed three propellers, 1 RAM chip on blade 2 (as well as the micro SD)

I suspect I'm up enough to run the CPM stuff now, but to be honest I'm
actually thinking of branching off a little to doing 40 column retrocomputing
style software with video/keyboard on #1, brain on #2, and sound on #3.

After I figure out how to get that CPM stuff up and running. :)

OBC

New to the Propeller?

Visit the: The Propeller Pages @ Warranty Void.

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SRLM
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  		   Posted 5/7/2009 10:32 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm almost done, but I've hit a stickler. Somehow, I don't think I ordered any of the 5V regulators. I went to get one of mine, and found out that your pinout for the regulators is Ground-Out-In? All of mine and the two stores that I looked at were In-Ground-Out...

I tried the USB interface with a hotair rework station, but I accidentally started with the chip twisted a bit. It took a while to center it, and I think I may have fried it... Well, at least the prop-plugs are on sale today.
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Cluso99
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  		   Posted 5/8/2009 12:44 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sorry about the regulators I used. Such are standards :( You can use the LM1117 or LM1086. I do hope you have not fried your FT232.

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SRLM
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  		   Posted 5/18/2009 9:20 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I got the whole regulator thing backwards. I thought it was wrong, when it was as really thought the whole time. So I soldered in the last part, pulled out the prop plug, and gave it a shot. It worked!

A couple more questions:
1) Somehow I ordered the 74HC595N latches (as marked on the chip), instead of the 74HC573 the board mentions. It appears that it's the family (74HC) that matters, not the specific chip? Is it safe to use the chips that I have?
EDIT: some more sluething tells me that I cannot use it as a drop in replacement. The datasheets are handy enough to each have two diagrams which share the same labels. Although I don't understand them, they're clearly not the same. Oh well...
2) For what setup do I need to use the latches? I assume that they go with the SRAM.
3) Are the mounting holes electrically connected? The hole next to the PS2 connectors is very close to one of the PS2 holes (which I assume is ground...), and my standoff almost touches the solder.

Post Edited (SRLM) : 5/19/2009 5:56:58 AM GMT

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Toby Seckshund
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  		   Posted 5/18/2009 10:41 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
According to the datasheet I have just looked up the 74HC595N is a "8-bit serial-in/serial or parallel-out shift register with output latches; 3-state". The wanted chip is a transparent latch, simular to the '373 but with reordered pinouts. Not the same beasty at all.
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Cluso99
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  		   Posted 5/19/2009 1:14 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Yes you must use the 74HC573. Where did you see the 595 mentioned?

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SRLM
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  		   Posted 5/19/2009 7:07 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Cluso99 said...
Yes you must use the 74HC573. Where did you see the 595 mentioned?


I think it was a mistake on the part of future electronics. I looked at my invoice, and it was correct there. I looked at my chips, and they were off by 22. I'll have to look around, though, and make sure that I don't have the chips laying around somewhere else.
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kwinn
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  		   Posted 5/19/2009 7:41 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Those are definitely not the same chip. You need the '573. The "HC" refers to the logic family. It is basically the cmos equivalent of the 74LS chips. Good choice for use with the prop since they work with 2 to 6V supplies. The '595 is a good choice for I/O. Four lines from the prop can give you just about as many outputs as you want as long as you don't need high speeds.
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SRLM
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  		   Posted 5/19/2009 10:20 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I have plied the wall of electronics chips at my university's electronics shop, and they don't have any 74HC573 chips. However, they do have some DM74LS573 chips. From the datasheet comparison test, the logic symbols are identical (well, a pin is moved but I think that is cosmetic), and the pinouts are identical. Will these work?

DM74LS573 Datasheet

Edit: Grrr. The minimum supply voltage is 5 volts for the DM74LS573 chips...

Post Edited (SRLM) : 5/19/2009 6:26:32 PM GMT

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Ale
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  		   Posted 5/19/2009 10:48 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Well.... they are LS and not HCT: Inputs are equal, but the LS has bipolar transistors at the output with pretty poor sink/source capabilities and the NEED of a 5 V power rail and the HCT has CMOS outputs with rail-to-rail output and good sink/source capabilities... they also need 5V :-). It should work, it is only as address latch.

Visit the home of pPropQL, pPropQL020 and OMU for the pPropQL/020 at omnibus.uni-freiburg.de/~rp92

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James Michael Huselton
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  		   Posted 5/19/2009 2:15 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Spark fun carries these logic level translators (two 3.3v Bidirectional I/O lines and two 5v Bidirectional I/O lines):

www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8745.

I bought 10 of these boards and I use them all the time for legacy chip conversion.
They measure 0.5 by 0.6 inches. Works for me - I haven't had a conversion problem in 4 years.
And I haven't had any high-speed issues, either.

JMH

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Cluso99
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  		   Posted 5/19/2009 8:23 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
As I said previously, you MUST use the 74HC573. Otherwise you may have to change timings, etc, to get it to work. The only substitute could be the 74AHC573 (296-4613-5-ND from DigiKey) or the 54HC573 and 54AHC573 which are commercial temperature range chips.

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Dr_Acula
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  		   Posted 5/19/2009 9:55 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Re "I looked at my chips, and they were off by 22. "

Yikes, by the same logic, that would turn a 74HC10 into a 74HC32!

I'm jealous. You have a wall of electronics chips at the university? Sweet. Where is your university...

I've slowly built up a wall of chips over many years. It is very handy. And many of these chips are only 30c each, so if you are putting in an order for some parts, almost worth buying some extra ones and getting some more parts drawers. If you like tinkering with logic chips, that is.

HC parts are great as they go down to 2V, so you can use them in 3V circuits or 5V circuits or other voltages between 2 and 6V. LS is stuck with just 5V. ditto HCT. Substitutions are as Cluso says. I tend to buy HC when buying logic chips.

JMH - level translators would possibly not be the best answer for this problem, but that link is to a part that is absolutely perfect for other projects. Particularly anything SD card related when using 5V chips. Thanks++ for the link - bookmarking it now.

Cluso, how are things going with the bi-blade?

Post Edited (Dr_Acula (James Moxham)) : 5/20/2009 6:02:18 AM GMT

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SRLM
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  		   Posted 5/19/2009 10:21 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hooray! I got the onboard prop plug working! My first SMD. I was worried since I had the board over the hot air station for about half an hour, trying to get it right. I thought I may have fried the chip...

Dr Acula said...
I'm jealous. You have a wall of electronics chips at the university? Sweet. Where is your university...

I've slowly built up a wall of chips over many years. It is very handy. And many of these chips are only 30c each, so if you are putting in an order for some parts, almost worth buying some extra ones and getting some more parts drawers. If you like tinkering with logic chips, that is.


University of California Riverside. The "wall of chips" is part of the EE lab support office. About half the room is dedicated to storing old "junk" (hidden treasures) like big motors and chips and robotic arms and ... It's one of my favorite places since I came here this year. Plus, I can use their nice soldering irons and other neato tools... :)

I too have been working up a wall. For most of the Tri-blade passives I ordered an extra hundred or so. Some of the chips were a little bit more expensive(like the FTDI chips), so those will have to wait for a spot on the wall...
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Ale
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  		   Posted 5/20/2009 3:47 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
SRLM: SMD devices can be soldered easier with a normal iron, small tip:

Solder one leg from one side and another from the other side, the ones at the ends work best. Later you just put solder and the iron over the legs kind of fast move it so the get soldered to the board do not caring about shorts. Then with solder wick you remove the extra (and shorting) solder. It is fast and looks quite ok. The extra resin from the solder can then be removed with ethanol, the unflavoured version, of course :-)

Visit the home of pPropQL, pPropQL020 and OMU for the pPropQL/020 at omnibus.uni-freiburg.de/~rp92

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Cluso99
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  		   Posted 5/20/2009 4:53 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dr_A: The biblade (TwinBlade and the RamBlade) have been pushed aside for something that came up unexpectedly. Unfortunately, I expect another week before I get back to it - just didn't complete it in time. :-(

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TrapperBob
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  		   Posted 5/20/2009 5:49 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi Cluso99,

I am also very interested in the BiBlade and RamBlade. I am still experimenting with Blade#3 on the TriBlade. Looking forward to the continuing development of the TriBlade also.
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James Michael Huselton
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  		   Posted 5/20/2009 9:07 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I like RamBlade rather than my MonoBlade suggestion. It goes directly to the point, i.e. RAM handling.

I'm breadboarding Hippy's code to process SPI and Hanno's thread on memory utilization.
That's quite enough to keep me busy until you get back to the board layout, Cluso99.

JMH

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SRLM
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  		   Posted 5/29/2009 10:16 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Almost all setup. I've been doing sockets on everything, and so it's been a challenge to get the wirewrap soldered to the socket without having the solder flow into the hole. I've had to remove one 40 pin socket since that happened, and I'm terrible at desoldering. I've lifted several pads already, but I think it's recoverable. Anyway, I wrote up a pinout list for the Triblade. Can you confirm that it's correct? I built it from the schematics, which I assume are correct based on all errata discovered.

And I think I get the latches now. They're just there to store eight bits of the address for the SRAM, so that you don't have to waste too many extra pins on a Prop.

Ale said...
The extra resin from the solder can then be removed with ethanol, the unflavoured version, of course


I tried some Isopropyl Alcohol tonight (99.953%, the kind recommended in a recent thread) and it appeared to strip some of the mask off. I can see a bit of copper for the traces now. Also, it appears to spread the flux around, rather than remove it (despite vigorous rubbing with a toothbrush), and when it dries it just leaves a sticky residue behind. Paper towels can't clean it up since they just get caught in all the snipped leads.

Post Edited (SRLM) : 5/30/2009 6:23:44 AM GMT



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Cluso99
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  		   Posted 5/30/2009 12:26 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

SRLM: I presume when you talk about the wirewrap, you mean the wire mod on Blade #2. If so, just bend the pin on each SRAM out so it does not go into the socket and solder the pin directly.

I used Freon to clean up pcbs years ago. Not sure if it is still available. You have to drip it off the board though.

I have updated your pinout to fix a few errors.

Note that no-one has yet used the SRAM on the TriBlade Blade #1. It uses a latched address bus for the high order bits. The latch on Blade #2 is different in that it selects one of.. the SRAM chips or SD or Flash. It can also reset Prop #1 and/or Prop #3. It only requires latching when the selects change, so SRAM can be accessed fast without latching.

Hope this answers your questions, Ray

Links to other interesting threads:
My cruising website is:  www.bluemagic.biz   MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm



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SRLM
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  		   Posted 6/4/2009 8:23 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Question: I have a short on both the 5v rail and the 3.3v rail. I don't have any regulators installed, and I'm at a loss on how to find the short. Obviously I've checked for pins soldered together but I can't find anything. I asked an electronics guy and he suggested that I may have scratched the soldermask and hit the copper groundplane, then had a solder bridge to that. Is that feasible? I looked at all the connections and that doesn't appear to be the case, but I can't see if the solder flowed through a hole and made a connection under a socket. I tried using an ohmmeter to measure the resistance at various close power pins, but I don't think it can accuratly measure tenths of an ohm.

Edit: some more testing and looking still hasn't turned up the culprit. I tried passing 6A through the 5V input header near the RCA jack, but it didn't show up any shorts.

Post Edited (SRLM) : 6/4/2009 10:23:12 PM GMT

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Cluso99
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  		   Posted 6/5/2009 2:25 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

SLRM: I am not quite sure where you short is. Do you mean that the 5V and 3.3V rails are shorted together? Or do you mean both are shorted to ground? What component have you fitted (a photo may be easier than listing the parts)?

All pcbs were supposed to be electrically tested and I believe this to be the case as there were a number of reject pcbs.

If the short is between 5v and 3.3V then the 5V track is fairly short so it should be fairly easy to find.

I have included the copper sections attached. The red is the top, blue the bottom. This is the strip you should be looking at for a short between the solder pads and the surrounding copper.

Links to other interesting threads:
My cruising website is:  www.bluemagic.biz   MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm


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SRLM
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  		   Posted 6/5/2009 7:49 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I get a short from 5v to ground, 3.3v to ground, and 5v to 3.3v. I tried passing 2A continuous through the board and measuring the voltage at different places, and I got the lowest voltage reading on blade three. It was in the range of tens of millivolts, but I'm not sure that it means anything. I've attached pictures of the board. At first I thought that the short was from the wrong type of regulator, so I removed both regulators. That wasn't it though... I don't have any chips onboard except the FTDI chip. Everything else is sockets. Thanks for the sections, I'll take a look at those.
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microcontrolled
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  		   Posted 6/5/2009 10:56 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The voltage out pins in the bottom right-hand corner (from front) look like there solder is jointed between the 3.3v and ground. That looks like that is it.

Toys are microcontroled.
Robots are microcontroled.
I am microcontrolled.

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