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rjo_
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  		   Posted 2/23/2009 5:30 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Cluso99,

I don't think it is an either/or. It seems to me that listing it in the finished products section would be ok. The tradition seems to be to list the quasi-commercial stuff in the Sandbox... but you keep it here until you have your final tweeks and costs.


Rich
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Cluso99
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  		   Posted 2/24/2009 12:07 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Nice work Ken.
I notice you have a wire on the chip near the USB. Is this an FT232R chip and if so is the datasheet correct or do I need to tie another pin (for my pcb)? I was planning on not connecting pins such as DCD and DSR as the datasheet indicates they can be left floating.
Also I saw you do not overlap the mini USB over the pcb edge - the datasheet for the one I am using suggests 2mm over the pcb edge?

Just curious, as I want to make my pcb the best I can :-)

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Dr_Acula
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  		   Posted 2/24/2009 4:47 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Re "This Blade is designed to run large programs, such as microcomputer emulations (see the PropAltair thread), large LMM programs, large C programs, etc."

Sounds good! There are (as of today) 103 people working on the N8VEM project and lots of group experience there that ought to eventually be able to be ported over to a prop simulation. I like the inclusion of the ram on the board - it ought to add a lot of flexibility with code.
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KenBash
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  		   Posted 2/26/2009 8:26 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I hadn't really given much thought to building some of these Trimotor boards for sale. I thought that by the time I actually did any production, the new propeller would have erased most of the advantages of a board like this. However, with the current specs for the new chip,( and unknown release date) it still MIGHT make sense to have multi-prop designs. I don't have a lot of time to spend on the project but if someone is interested enough in it... let me know and I'll see if we can work something out together. Having most of the user interface stuff on-board ( VGA, Keyboard, Mouse, RS-232 ) PLUS two more props ( one aimed at the USB chip, the other just there for ANYTHING ) It IS a nice board for industrial control. The two 37-pin connectors make it a nice "Plug ON" board for a larger circuit board having specific drivers, power supply, etc.

As for cost, If you're familiar with Express PCB, you'll recognize the footprint of the board as their standard size for their 3 boards for $51.00. Naturally, cheap SOB that I am, most of my designs tend to fit this format. I checked a similar design and the price for 20 boards was in the range of $11.00 each. Depending on what all you actually PUT on the board... 3 props, Usb, RS-232 chip, etc. component cost would probably be edging up in the $50-60 range. I have had similar boards assembled by Screaming Circuits and am very impressed with their work. Rjo asked about having sensors and tubes on-board, that's in another design( Yes, prop based ) I have that controls a cluster of instruments for life cycle testing of heart valves and stents. I LOVE the Propeller!

Cluso, you asked about my USB connector... frankly... I don't read as many spec sheets as I probably should... I haven't really USED the USB on this board and mainly put it there in anticipation of needing it for a future project. If someone is interested in using this board... Let's talk. I still have my layout around here somewhere.

" Anything worth doing... is worth overdoing. "
                                                ( R.A.H. )
                                    

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Cluso99
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  		   Posted 2/26/2009 7:25 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
For those anxiously waiting or following this thread - I had a few other issues this end. I am still laying the pcb (with mods to Blade 2) - hope to send it to production over the w/e - you will be surprised what I have achieved and will post this asap after the pcb is sent.

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James Michael Huselton
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  		   Posted 2/26/2009 10:09 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Whip Snap! Back to work!

JMH

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Cluso99
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  		   Posted 3/2/2009 9:15 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sorry this has taken so long. Had a few problems with pouring the power and ground planes. Thanks to Peter V who did it for me on the SixBladeProp pcb. I didnt realise how much work there was because of the way I designed it wothout naming nets first.
 
Here is a sneak preview of the component overlay. (See post below). I will contact those who want one+ over the next couple of days by email.
 
The PCB is 2.9"x8" and is joined by V-Groove (to break apart in from panels of 5x2).

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My cruising website is:  www.bluemagic.biz

Post Edited (Cluso99) : 3/3/2009 12:37:34 PM GMT

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James Michael Huselton
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  		   Posted 3/3/2009 1:49 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
This looks very good. Send me one board and I'll populate it and debug it.
I know I ordered several boards but since all of the redesign I'll feel safer gorilla testing this design.
I am sure modification will follow.

JMH

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Cluso99
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  		   Posted 3/3/2009 4:33 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Finally the pcb is off to production. hop  Hopefully everything is OK. I do not plan to do a revision of the pcb as the setup costs are too high. I have checked all the netlists and clearances, so hopefully everything is OK.

Here is the pcb (I have stitched it together from screen saving Protel). I will get the schematics and parts list done over the next few days and update my website as well. cool

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My cruising website is:  www.bluemagic.biz

Post Edited (Cluso99) : 3/3/2009 12:40:06 PM GMT


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heater
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  		   Posted 3/3/2009 4:54 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Spectacular. Now I wish the board's epoxy would be red !

How much PASM code do you think is required to access the RAMs ? Must leave enough room in the Z80 emulator.

For me, the past is not over yet.

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Dr_Acula
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  		   Posted 3/3/2009 5:09 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sweet. Looks a good platform for the grand CP/M project. As an aside, I've been writing a comms program in sbasic, with some vb.net instruction emulation, on a CP/M platform, with emulation of some UNIX commands. (Gosh, rereading that, it sounds Nerdy. Almost PropellerHead Nerdy) I'm exercising a form of wireless ftp at the moment on 3 physical boards. If heater can do the 8080 emulation with 64k of ram, then we could port across this software that can look like CP/M and UNIX with very little extra work. I see great potential for the triblade!
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Cluso99
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  		   Posted 3/3/2009 8:39 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Heater: The SRAM can be left enabled (only 1 chip at a time though) so the procedure would be:
Output address A0-15/18 (shifted 8 bits left) on P8-P23/26
1 instruction free (else nop)
Read data D0-7 in on P0-7
And data bits with $FF (if required, as the upper bits will contain the address + other pins)

Now, here is the interesting bit. If you keep the address in the OUTA register already shifted, you can just add $100 to increment to the next address, or likewise store it in an already shifted variable. It may be that it is of no use in the OUTA as you have to access other locations besides the sequential program. Wherever the PC is stored, if a jump occurs, then the emulator will put in the new PC value and shift it.

Writes are a little more complicated - I have to check the datasheet for timings. Data and Address is combined in OUTA. -WE requires pulsing and DIRA has to change with this (avoiding bus conflicts).

And sorry - pcb will be green (I have to give extra time for other colors so I didn't bother)

Dr_A: I see no problems in running the CP/M. The extra SRAM can emulate a RAM Floppy (volatile). The microSD card could be the loader, or just use the large flash to bootup the CP/M and writeback when all is done.

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  Home of the MultiBladeProps:  SixBladeProp, TriBladeProp
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heater
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  		   Posted 3/3/2009 8:48 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Green, oh well. Can I put my name down for the limited edition in red when it comes.

For me, the past is not over yet.

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Cluso99
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  		   Posted 3/3/2009 10:07 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Here is the Parts List... with Digikey and Future Electronics part numbers cool

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  Home of the MultiBladeProps:  SixBladeProp, TriBladeProp
 
My cruising website is:  www.bluemagic.biz



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Cluso99
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  		   Posted 3/4/2009 2:25 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Here are the specfications (word format read-only). cool I have updated all available information to my website www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm 

Boards in manufacture and due out 11 March plus delivery to me. hop

Postedit (updated 5Mar2009): Attached are the all the latest schematic sheets 1, 2, 3 and 4 (for Blades #1, #2 and #3). All completed roll

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My cruising website is:  www.bluemagic.biz   MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm

Post Edited (Cluso99) : 3/5/2009 7:06:09 AM GMT


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Cluso99
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  		   Posted 3/4/2009 10:17 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Full schematics now posted above :-)

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Cluso99
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  		   Posted 3/6/2009 2:11 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ok, I have emailed those who want a board or two, so if you don't receive the email let me know on cluso@bluemagic.biz

I would like to know what you intend using the multiple props (Blades) for. I know heater is itching to try the SRAM on his emulator and so am I. One of the Blades will be the terminal. Might be worth a new thread??

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Dr_Acula
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  		   Posted 3/6/2009 3:38 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Please put me down for a board. I sent a long email but it has just bounced back -> will resend. In summary, the hardware looks very good.
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Ale
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  		   Posted 3/6/2009 9:08 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I want to try some emulators, with dedicated processors and so on.
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jazzed
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  		   Posted 3/6/2009 9:37 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Cluso will you bring some boards if you make it to Propeller West Expo ?

--Steve

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Cluso99
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  		   Posted 3/6/2009 10:01 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I would really like to come to the expo and if I have boards left I will bring them. I will bring my working pcbs also :-)
I am certain we will have a few different emulations runing by then, and who knows what else you guys will dream up.

You realise this has put a hold on my prop emulation in the FPGA :-( Until you dig deep into the Prop you just don't realise how clever Chip is. His silicon (gate) implementation must be fantastic, yet he seems to have made it relatively simple due to the clever instruction set. He has certainly approached this from a quite a different perspective (outside the box) to most designs I am familiar with.

AND MAYBE I WILL GET TO MEET CHIP :-))) I'll just have to join the queue. But he should be locked in that "cage" working on PropII.

However, having said all that, I am unsure if we can make it.

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Cluso99
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  		   Posted 3/13/2009 7:57 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Here is a picture of the working pcb. Note that as yet I have not fitted any EEPROMs, FLASH or SRAMs.

The props were loaded individually via an external PropPlug and all work. jumpin The orange wires are links to pins to flash the LEDs (D3=Red, D2=Blue, D1=Green)

The internal power regulators are working fine. However, my soldering of the SMT FT232RL leaves something to be desired so I will have to wait for some good daylight to fix it (so the internal PropPlug is not working yet).

The microSD SMT socket soldered easily. You can also see the three PropPlug inputs to each prop.

WARNING: The DC power jack should be 2.1mm center positive to be the same as the Prop Proto Board (I thought it was 2.5mm). U26 is labelled on the PCB Overlay as EEPROM - it should be labelled FLASH. The schematics are correct.

see... Propeller Based Single Board Computer on TriBladeProp  http://forums.parallax.com/forums/default.aspx?f=25&m=334617

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My cruising website is:  www.bluemagic.biz   MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm


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Sapieha
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  		   Posted 3/13/2009 8:37 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi Cluso99

Look very nice

I adapt Yours Blade1 to ProtoBoard and have one question to You

Why not You use same pins to VGA that ProtoBoard

Nothing is impossible, there are only different degrees of difficulty.

For every stupid question there is at least one intelligent answer.

Don't guess - ask instead.

If you don't ask you won't know.

If your gonna construct something, make it as simple as possible yet as versatile as posible.
 
Sapieha

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Cluso99
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  		   Posted 3/13/2009 9:06 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It's to do with speed of access of the SRAM. The old position of the VGA spit the address pins into 2 sections that would have required extra instructions. It is easier to recompile the vga.

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Dr_Acula
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  		   Posted 3/13/2009 7:32 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Let us know when the RAM chip goes in. Looking forward to more than 20k!
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