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Ken Gracey (Parallax)
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  		   Posted 1/24/2008 11:11 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dear Customers,
 
We're engaging in a new USB Oscilloscope design. You are probably already familiar with our current version, which has sold very well over the past couple of years. During this time we've received a lot of input and requests for features, probe style, sampling rate, open-source software, etc.
 
Today we are starting our next design, and we're interested in your input for features. You can post them by replying to this thread. Keep in mind that our tools should be reasonably priced at less than $200-250. Also know that the Propeller enables massive hardware reduction compared to our current model, and that our business niche is portability, price, capability, education and support - we don't make benchtop T&M equipment with endless feature lists.
 
So, given the above, post your desires here and we will consider all of them! What you want in a portable scope matters to Parallax and we value your input regardless of your experience level.
 
Sincerely,
 
Ken Gracey
Parallax, Inc.  
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MarkS
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  		   Posted 1/24/2008 11:55 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
OK, so it's powered by a Prop. Good. The biggest thing I want to see, and the only reason why I haven't bought your current scope is greater bandwidth. You don't need to go to the Prop's max clock speed, but something over 10MHz would be nice. What would really be cool, assuming you are going to use a Prop, would be a VGA port along side the USB port. I was actually contemplating making one myself with a 30MHz ADC and a VGA port.
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MinimumWage
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  		   Posted 1/24/2008 12:21 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Greater bandwidth is probably going to be the #1 request. One other thing I would think is neat would be closer integration of the 'scope software into other Parallax software. It would be nice to have a 'scope window that you can quickly open and check from within Prop Tool, kind of like the Stamp debug window. Tabbing back and forth between applications can be a pain when you're troubleshooting.

Mike
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Bean (Hitt Consulting)
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  		   Posted 1/24/2008 12:49 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
My suggestions would be for more bandwidth and a documented (open) PC protocol.

I like the probes on the current scope, but it would be nice to have the option of using a BNC scope probe too.

Everything else I'm cool with for a <$250 scope.

Bean.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 
 

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John Abshier
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  		   Posted 1/24/2008 2:53 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
How about a hybrid, a couple of channels of analog and some logic analyzer channels.
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kogerat
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  		   Posted 1/24/2008 3:28 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
More bandwidth, higher input Z, some provision to look at higher voltages.
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phil kenny
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  		   Posted 1/24/2008 4:45 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Access to the individual logged voltages and their time stamps in comma
separated ASCII text file format would be high on my list.

Second would be permitting the user to select the number of sample
points recorded.

This would permit the user to massage the data via external software
such as Matlab or Excel. Then one could perform digital filtering, FFT,
make period measurements, calculate instantaneous power, etc.

While some of this capability exists in the current USB Scope, being able
to massage the data in Matlab or Excel gives much more flexibility in
plot generation and annotation.
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william chan
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  		   Posted 1/24/2008 5:00 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The most important thing is the ability to measure AC as well as DC.
The current scope cannot measure AC unless modified by end-user.

Make the box smaller so it is easier to pack together with a notebook.

www.fd.com.my
www.mercedes.com.my

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JonnyMac
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  		   Posted 1/24/2008 6:10 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It would be nice if it included an eight-channel logic analyzer, even if only for TTL levels.
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Timothy D. Swieter
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  		   Posted 1/24/2008 6:25 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I don't have the current Parallax scope, but I considered it when I made a purchase a while ago. 
 
Features that I would want to see:
  • Open protocol so that users can interface to the scope from within their own application or excel or whatever software can see a USB/serial port.
  • USB powered - this would make the scope easily portable and keep from adding to the already cluttered corner of outlets and AC/DC adapters.
  • Open source the scope firmware (maybe) and leave additional I/O lines so users can expand the functionality.  I like the other requests for analog and digital inputs/outputs.  What if the users could add functions to monitor an I2C bus or SPI bus?  I know some of these features are on higher end scopes.  If a new design is being done, allowing the hooks and options for users to improve upon the base product can provide more functionality and features for the price.
  • One of the reasons I purchased a scope from a different company was the probes.  My needs were more professional than hobby, so I needed a scope with BNC probes for measuring various high voltages and low voltages.  I am sure part of keeping the price low is the cost of probes and I can understand if the new product has similar probes as the current product.

I hope this helps.  Thank you for asking for our input!

Timothy D. Swieter
tdswieter.com
------------------------------------------------------------
One little spark of imagination is all it takes for an idea to explode

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MarkS
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  		   Posted 1/24/2008 7:57 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ken, we can give you ideas from now until the sun explodes, but it might help if you gave a little direction. I'm sure you've already thought of what would and would not be possible to add and keep it at or under $250.
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computer guy
I have 4 propellers



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  		   Posted 1/25/2008 12:17 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ken,

The ability to show the data in "X,Y Mode" would be nice.

Just purchased the current version the other day 'rev B', great product.
Can't wait to see the new one when it comes out.

Good luck guys. :-)

Check out my robot using the propeller RECONAUTOR
If you like my avatar then check this out Propeller Domed Sticker

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John Bond
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  		   Posted 1/25/2008 2:32 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Thanks for asking

 

I don’t know if this is a bit “over the top” but I’m always at a loss for signal generation. Maybe a simple generator of the common wave types at a handful of useful frequencies.

 

I also agree with all the recommendations listed above.

 

Regards from darkest Africa

John Bond

 

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crgwbr
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  		   Posted 1/28/2008 2:42 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Maybe more storage space, like an on board Hydra Xtream Ram Card.

My system: 1.6 GHz AMD Turion64 X2, 4GB DDR2, 256MB ATI Radeon Graphics card, 15.4" Widescreen HD Screen

I have a duel boot of Ubuntu Linux and Windows Vista. Vista, because it came with the PC, Ubuntu because I like software that works.

"Failure is not an option -- it comes bundled with Windows."

Use The Best...
Linux for Servers
Mac for Graphics
Palm for Mobility
Windows for Solitaire

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MarkS
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  		   Posted 1/28/2008 5:29 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
crgwbr said...
Maybe more storage space, like an on board Hydra Xtream Ram Card.


Better yet (and cheaper), add an SD card slot.
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steve_b
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  		   Posted 1/29/2008 5:06 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I like the logging part of a scope.
We've some scopes here that will output a CSV-type file. Basically, you'd have to freeze the current measurement then output it....on our 'fast' scopes this can take a while (depending on how many 'points' you've captured). It would be nice if this worked 'stand-alone' (so we didn't need to commit a PC to it while it was logging).

It would be nice to have some sort of debug port...or programming ability. Not that I'd want to change how the scope works, but it would be nice to have a serial line that I could connect the PINK or another stamp to....or just an older legacy PC. Then I could monitor some things remotely.
Hey, why not connect the thing and have it output it's peaks/mins/maxes to an LCD or serial printer.

One of our scopes comes with software that puts a toolbar in excel. You press the 'capture' button and it'll go out to the scope and grab the data....put it in to columns and also graph it....nice for emailing to tech support. To be honest, StampDaQ could work for this (so long as there's an option to output the captured data).

Just a few thoughts....

OH, and perhaps the ability (memory hog alert) to play solitaire on it..joking! Actually, if it could hold a reference trace to compare to a live reading...that 'might' be useful (of course, if the PC is connected one could just dredge up that trace to compare...)

Cheers

<FONT>Steve



What's the best thing to do in a lightning storm? "take a one iron out the bag and hold it straight up above your head, even God cant hit a one iron!"
Lee Travino after the second time being hit by lightning!

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StarMan
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  		   Posted 1/29/2008 10:29 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

More bandwidth.  Four channels.  And I like the idea of logic analyzer.

Chris I.

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João Geada
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  		   Posted 1/29/2008 6:09 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
My list:

- more bandwidth (10Mhz or thereabout)
- I really like the idea of the logic analyzer. Having the capability to analyze 8 or more simultaneous channels (similar to Viewport, see ref below) would be wonderful and an amazing differentiator for a cheap USB scope.

And *absolutely* the protocol must be open.
My next PC will not have Windows on it (will either be a Mac or Linux box) and if you don't have an open protocol you won't get my money.

For reference, here is the ViewPort homepage. I've used the first version (Viewport 1.0) and was greatly impressed with it.
mydancebot.com/viewport/features.php

---
João

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Javalin
Got a Propeller, need some SPIN?

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  		   Posted 1/30/2008 1:19 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hey Ken,

I also considered the P-Scope recently (well late last year) and was put off buy lack of sampling rate.

I would guess what most people looking in that type of budget and for debugging Parallax stuff - the types of signals usefull to be able to see would be:
-> Serial / rs232 / rs485 upto 115,200
-> i2c
-> SPI

Features:
-> USB2 and USB powered - def NOT Parallel!
-> at least 2 channels,
-> a trigger (rising / falling)
-> capture to disk or to on-board storage / capture on trigger
-> basic signal generation (easy with the prop!!)
-> External power supply for avoiding gnd loops / for people with old USB....
-> Probes with the diff connector options so you can touch a pin or connect a wire to a junction.
-> Logic analyser function would seem to be easy - just a different window on the PC app to show when the trace is above 2.5v and below 2v or whatever.

It would be good to have examples of what it can capture (i.e. rs232 11,500, i2c 400kps etc) in the product data-sheet. Its difficult for beginners to work this out - all very well saying its 10mhz etc.

Just my 5 pence worth - cheers!

James

Post Edited (Javalin) : 1/30/2008 9:29:27 AM GMT

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Whit
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  		   Posted 1/30/2008 6:41 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Is a new Understanding Signals text part of the plan too?
 
I'd like one that addressed the new scope specifically.

Whit+
 
"We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths." - Walt Disney

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stevenmess2004
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  		   Posted 2/1/2008 11:22 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
My 5 cents

-serial connection that connects to prop plug. This means we could easily use it in embedded apps and still be easy to use with a computer
-make the prop plug optional for those who already have one
-around 10MHz + bandwidth
-document the serial link so that I can use it on my mac
-logic analyser that runs even faster
-built in TV or VGA output would be great

could this be the next propeller dev board?

why don't you just take a propeller proto board and add a nice case and front end for the scope?

Steven
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Loopy Byteloose
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  		   Posted 2/2/2008 12:40 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
A commitment to not leave WindowsXP behind. A lot of users are commited to older software applications for their development tools and Vista may eventually not fully support XP applications.

PLEASE CONSIDER the following:
Do you want a quickly operational black box solution or the knowledge included therein?      
                     Tropically,      G. Herzog [ 黃鶴 ] in Taiwan

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schill
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  		   Posted 2/2/2008 8:47 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I think that everything I'm looking for has already been mentioned, but I'll add my vote as well for:

1) Open, well-documented protocol

2) Related to the open protocol, use a serial/USB interface (preferably FTDI-based) between the scope and PC. I assume it would use this anyway, but it's much easier to interface to as a serial device rather than a USB-specific device. Having the option to do RS-232 (or TTL-level) serial without USB is nice, too (without hacking the hardware).

3) Open software or at least a Linux version. I always have plans to write my own version of software (based on protocols), but I don't usually find time to actually do it.

4) Some (8 maybe) digital inputs (logica analyzer) in addition to analog traces.

5) Increased bandwidth doesn't hurt

6) Software that can run on low-resolution displays. I've got two 1600x1200 monitors on my desk, but nothing that large on my workbench. The ability to run on a small monitor (800x600) would be nice. In addition, I'd really like to be able to run it on my Asus EEE PC which has an 800x480 display (nice little laptop running Linux - very portable for "in the field" work).
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phil kenny
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  		   Posted 2/10/2008 4:16 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
A delayed trigger feature would be very useful, especially if one wanted
to get better time resolution of events that were far from the trigger.

phil
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jsmasterking
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  		   Posted 2/10/2008 6:12 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I always wanted a Oscilloscope but they are too expensive. Why not make a simple version that is cheap (under $50?). Or better yet, with the spirit of Stamps In Class, sell a kit to build one!

 on      plane                                          , when catching ducks
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