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TriBlade Prop PCB: Uses 3 Propeller ICs for a Single Board Computer (SBC) — Parallax Forums

TriBlade Prop PCB: Uses 3 Propeller ICs for a Single Board Computer (SBC)

Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
edited 2011-01-13 12:38 in Propeller 1
Renamed thread from "MultiBladeProp - TriBladeProp (3 Prop PCB)" 22Mar2009
Renamed "TriBlade Prop" from "TriBladeProp" 20Jun2012

Each Prop circuit is called a "Blade".
I have been able to squeeze everything I wanted on my SixBladeProp into two identical TriBladeProp pcbs. roll.gif

Put simply, the TriBladeProp is 3 Propeller circuits on one PCB with various options for SRAM, SPI Flash, microSD and USB (PropPlug equivalent), plus VGA, TV, Mouse and Keyboard connectors. The Propeller chips may communicate to each other by ultra-high speed serial.

Update 5 August 2009: Latest code posted here as follows...
  • Blade #2 software for ZiCog v091 including all source and the binary (uses PropPlug equivconnected to PC and PropTerm)
  • microSD files (part 1/2) CPM 2.2 & CPM3
  • microSD files (part 2/2)
  • posted on page 6 is draft assembly instructions including formating and copying the files to microSD card.
Update 19 Apr 2009: Attached below is the latest BOM,·suppliers part numbers and costs. Note not all parts are required, depending on otpions chosen. (It is in tab seperated text format so it can be imported into Excel)

Update 6 Mar 2009: Specifications (also attached to this post), schematics and BOMs are located at the end of this thread (Page 3 - about 4th March 2009)


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Links to other interesting threads:

· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBladeProp, RamBlade, TwinBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100 (Index) ZiCog (Z80), MoCog (6809)
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm

Post Edited (Cluso99) : 8/5/2009 8:22:19 AM GMT
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Comments

  • Mike HuseltonMike Huselton Posts: 746
    edited 2009-02-20 04:46
    Whew.

    I was a bit confused with the question of how many pcbs and what they contained after all the updates.

    I prefer the P8X32 in groups of three. It makes for greater partitioning flexibility and ease of architectural understanding.
    Six was too many for my poor head to grok simultaneously.

    In my college days, I think it was referred to as a "tessellated architecture" or some such gibberish.

    Great job, Cluso!

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    JMH

    Post Edited (James Michael Huselton) : 2/20/2009 5:46:15 AM GMT
  • SRLMSRLM Posts: 5,045
    edited 2009-02-20 06:02
    Probably too late, but an idea:

    What about a single place to plug in the prop-plug, and a hardware switch to select which blade to program? I think it would be a pain to have to move the plug around all the time, or to program the other propellers from a central propeller (at least for non-advanced users). Of course, it would only be for the group of three.
  • Mike HuseltonMike Huselton Posts: 746
    edited 2009-02-20 06:23
    Where is the revised block diagram link?

    By the way, in a sense, this is the equivalent of the Ford Tri-Motor aircraft.

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    JMH

    Post Edited (James Michael Huselton) : 2/20/2009 6:42:08 AM GMT
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2009-02-21 04:06
    Just a quick explanation while I am taking a break...

    The circuit diagram is pretty much the same as I posted for the SixBladeProp, 1 prop each for sheet 1, 2 and 3.

    All Blades (props) are seperate - no interconnections, except by links/wires. Blade 3 is designed to be the I/O prop, and perhaps the controller/loader of the other Blades (props). All I/O is brought out to a connector. Overlaying this connector is provision for 2 "Spin Studio" style connectors (for those that asked). Blade 2 is the workhorse and has provision for 1 or 2 512Kx8 SRAMs (Static RAMs) with direct pin access (no latches) for speed of access. 1 SRAM can be replaced (although I hope it may co-exist) with a microSD card and/or an SPI Flash 1-64Mbit. The Flash I recommend can be read 2 bits at a time !!! Due to lack of pins, the only interface to the other Blade(s)/Prop(s) will be via the·normal serial interface (P30 & P31), which can also be used to load the software. Blade 1 is intended to be the Terminal Prop. It has VGA or TV, plus mouse and keyboard. It also has provision for 1 512Kx8 SRAM using a 74HC573 latch to latch the upper A11-18 address pins. This allows 2048 byte blocks (pages) to be accessed without the need to update the latch, thereby speeding up access. The SRAM uses the mouse and keyboard pins. If you are using the TV option, then·they can be connected to the upper 4 (unused) VGA pins. If you are using the VGA, they will need to be wired to another prop (Blade 3) if you require them.

    All Blades (Props) may have I2C Eeproms connected. All Blades (Props) may have 5.00MHz (or whatever) crystals connected. However, if you use all 3 Blades, I recommend that only Blade 3 have an I2C Eeprom and a crystal, and that it load the other Blades with code and generate the oscillator for them.

    So, basically, you can have 1, 2 or 3 prop circuits running on this pcb, either seperate or linked - your choice. It is very flexible.

    As soon as the pcb is away for manufacture, I will update the schematics. cool.gif· I am getting·a few extra pcbs done. cool.gif

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    Links to other interesting threads:

    · Home of the MultiBladeProps (SixBladeProp)
    · Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
    · Emulators (Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100) - index
    · Search the Propeller forums (via Google)

    My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
  • Mike HuseltonMike Huselton Posts: 746
    edited 2009-02-21 05:03
    I await the land mail with great expectations!

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    JMH
  • Mike HuseltonMike Huselton Posts: 746
    edited 2009-02-22 01:38
    I have ordered more than one of your Tri-Blades.

    Please tell me the exact URL of the

    1. system block diagram
    2. pcb artwork
    3. pcb schematic

    You have posted many links. I just want the link to each of these drawings alone.
    Not something similar, or a english description. Just the exact drawings alone.

    If you don't have accurate drawings, that is okay. Just please tell me yes or no.

    Thanks.

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    JMH

    Post Edited (James Michael Huselton) : 2/22/2009 1:46:45 AM GMT
  • Bob Lawrence (VE1RLL)Bob Lawrence (VE1RLL) Posts: 1,720
    edited 2009-02-22 01:42
    Schematic:
    bluemagic.biz/clusodocs/sixbladeprop_schematic.pdf

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    Aka: CosmicBob
  • Mike HuseltonMike Huselton Posts: 746
    edited 2009-02-22 01:45
    Now we're cooking!

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    JMH
  • Mike HuseltonMike Huselton Posts: 746
    edited 2009-02-22 02:05
    On the schematic, page 1, you left the identifier for U3 blank.

    Now, I expect to receive several boards, all identical to page 1 of the schematic.
    What are pages 2 & 3 existing for?

    I hope that you can see my frustration at identifying exactly what I am going to receive as physical circuit boards from cluso99.

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    JMH

    Post Edited (James Michael Huselton) : 2/22/2009 2:24:52 AM GMT
  • Bob Lawrence (VE1RLL)Bob Lawrence (VE1RLL) Posts: 1,720
    edited 2009-02-22 03:18
    James Michael Huselton said...
    I have ordered more than one of your Tri-Blades.

    I'm sure Ray will clarify your oder soon but if I understand it correct

    A tribladeProp consists of:
    Qty 1 of Blade #1 (marked as 1 & 4 in the schematic)
    Qty 1 of Blade #2 (marked as 2 & 5 in the schematic)
    Qty 1 of Blade #3 (marked as 3 & 6 in the schematic)


    A 6 blade prop consists of:
    Qty 2 of Blade #1 (marked as 1 & 4 in the schematic)
    Qty 2 of Blade #2 (marked as 2 & 5 in the schematic)
    Qty 2 of Blade #3 (marked as 3 & 6 in the schematic)

    The descriptions for each are at the top of the thread and they are outlined in the schematics. In the schematic Blades 1 + 4 are the same. Blades 2 + 5 are the same. Blades 3 + 6 are the same.

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    Aka: CosmicBob
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2009-02-22 04:30
    James,
    Sorry, I am still doing the final pcb layout as I want to get that to production before I update the schematics (from the SixBlade version).
    Once I have updated the schematics I will post them and email each of you who have emailed me. Sorry, it was quicker for me to just type what I have done in english.
    Bob has described what is on the TriBladeProp fairly accurately.

    I posted a photo of the SixBladeProp which I have just received back. I am not going to produce these as I can do better with the available space on the overall production panel size - pcbs are basically charged on panel size. The TriBladeProp is basically the SixBladeProp cut horizintally in half, but both halves are now identical because of the extra space, and a few additions as well. smile.gif

    My first software project will be to get Blade 1 running a VT100 Terminal (I think from OBC) on vga or tv, and Blade 2 running heaters Altair 8080 CP/M. Since I have a large SRAM on Blade 2 I want the emulation have a full 64KB RAM (including simulated ROM) plus a 360KB (or 420KB) RAM simulated Floppy Drive, plus microSD and/or 1MByte Flash. It should fly!!! Later, I will add Blade 3 for more I/O.

    I am sure others, like baggers may find uses for the SRAM on Blade 1 for video, or the SRAM for C (ICCx) or LMM.

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    Links to other interesting threads:

    · Home of the MultiBladeProps (SixBladeProp)
    · Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
    · Emulators (Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100) - index
    · Search the Propeller forums (via Google)

    My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
  • Mike HuseltonMike Huselton Posts: 746
    edited 2009-02-22 05:30
    So,

    I understand you are saying that I will receive multiple circuit boards, each one a 3-chip and not a six-chip solution?
    This misunderstanding is because you keep referring to the number Six.

    You have not sent anything by mail? Physical, carry on land, mail?

    I just want to clear.

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    JMH
  • SRLMSRLM Posts: 5,045
    edited 2009-02-22 05:48
    The original design was for six Propellers on a single PCB. Cluso made a designers decision, and changed it to a three Propeller per PCB design. If you want the six Propeller solution, you just add together two three chip boards.
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2009-02-22 06:11
    SRLM - Exactly smile.gif

    James - nothing has been sent - the PCBs have not been sent to manufacture as I am still completing the layout. I am hoping to have them in my hands in 2 weeks, ready for shipping. In addition to new schematics, I also need to make a BOM (Bill of Materials) as a couple of components have changed since I specified the parts for the Six.

    Possibly the confusion has been because I had a pair of SixBladeProp PCBs manufactured. During the manufacture of these I discovered what the actual manufacturers panel size was, and it allowed me to add a few features and make the Six in an identical set of three (Tri). The Tri can better utilise the panel size and are therefore cheaper than half a 6, and if you really want 6, just put 2 Tri's together (or more).

    Almost all components can be obtained from 2 suppliers, Digikey and Future Electronics. The exceptions are TV (RCA), VGA, MiniDin6 (PS2) connectors and the Power connector. I am sure these are probably available from these 2 suppliers - I just have not had the time to check - anyone like to do this for me??? And while I am asking, I thought the DC connector on the Prop Proto Board was 2.5mm although I saw on another thread where they were suggesting 2.1mm was more common. In Australia, 2.5mm is more common and center positive is normal. I am using center positive. The pinout for 2.1 and 2.5 are identical, but I would prefer to recommend the more common one. Any ideas???

    Postedit: Digikey: RCA Yellow CP-1403-ND, VGA 609-2802-ND, MiniDin6 CP-4060-ND, Power 2.5mm CP-202B-ND, mini USB-B WM17115-ND, microSD HR1941CT-ND (I am not·using microSD 3M5607CT-ND or mini USB-B H2961CT-ND as they are too difficult for inexperienced users to solder)

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    Links to other interesting threads:

    · Home of the MultiBladeProps (SixBladeProp)
    · Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
    · Emulators (Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100) - index
    · Search the Propeller forums (via Google)

    My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz

    Post Edited (Cluso99) : 2/22/2009 9:55:41 AM GMT
  • SRLMSRLM Posts: 5,045
    edited 2009-02-22 22:10
    For the power jack, I'd use the size that parallax uses for the BOE and Protoboard.
  • Mike HuseltonMike Huselton Posts: 746
    edited 2009-02-22 22:14
    Cluso,

    I was very cranky the last two days. Physical pain does the to a person.

    I am much better now.

    My apologies...

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    JMH
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2009-02-23 13:32
    JMH - No problems.

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    Links to other interesting threads:

    · Home of the MultiBladeProps (SixBladeProp)
    · Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
    · Emulators (Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100) - index
    · Search the Propeller forums (via Google)

    My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
  • rjo_rjo_ Posts: 1,825
    edited 2009-02-23 14:22
    Cluso99...

    I think the protocol is to debug and design in this forum and when the design is fixed and the price arranged, move it over to the Sandbox.

    Great work.

    Rich
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2009-02-23 15:43
    Thanks rjo - but its not yet complete, although close. Then of course will be the use of multiple props but I guess that will be another thread?

    How do you move it to the sandbox once its complete? And should it go there or the completed projects? What is the difference? My perception of the sandbox was for other projects that were not propeller (or parallax) based, so I rarely read them.

    My apologies if I have it wrong - this is the first forum I have used. Please point to where I can find out this info- it must be written somewhere I guess.

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    Links to other interesting threads:

    · Home of the MultiBladeProps (SixBladeProp)
    · Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
    · Emulators (Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100) - index
    · Search the Propeller forums (via Google)

    My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz

    Post Edited (Cluso99) : 2/23/2009 3:52:35 PM GMT
  • KenBashKenBash Posts: 68
    edited 2009-02-23 21:08
    Attached is a photo of a board I built last year. I used this board as the controller for a machine making Mock Arteries for medical testing.

    A single propeller didn't have all the I/O's I needed since I was using VGA output, mouse and keyboard input and needed to control several axis of motion, temperature, and a few other things. Two Propellers would have been enough, but I couldn't resist the chance to build a board I could call the "Tri-motor".

    My original inter-prop communication scheme used a dedicated cog to output a sync pulse and then clocked a block of data shared by the three processors. ( each taking their turn to write updates to their current block if necessary ) It worked OK, but since i did it in Spin it was actually slower than doing the same thing using the standard serial package.

    The board worked great, I liked having two great big ( 37 pin ) connectors on either en of the board. it let me bunch my power and user interface stuff down at one end and my machine control stuff back at the other.

    I like Cluso99's layout, but if size is a consideration to anyone wanting to have a multi-prop controller this surface mount configuration makes a nice small package. I would consider having another batch of boards made for anyone interested.

    Ken Bash
    Missouri Automation LLC.

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    " Anything worth doing... is worth overdoing. "

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    2816 x 2112 - 1M
  • Mike HuseltonMike Huselton Posts: 746
    edited 2009-02-23 22:21
    KenBash,

    Marvellous footprint! The surface mount makes all the difference. I believe Cluso99's plan is to eventually go surface mount.

    KenBash, how many dollars for the PCB order, say, if you only get orders for a total of twenty?
    This would give me a ballpark estimate of my wallet cost.

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    JMH

    Post Edited (James Michael Huselton) : 2/23/2009 10:28:07 PM GMT
  • SRLMSRLM Posts: 5,045
    edited 2009-02-23 22:22
    The completed projects forum is for things that are completed and have full documentation.

    The sandbox is for things that don't fit in any other forum, which includes, but is not limited to, other microcontroller based projects (of which there are only a few).

    I think this thread is fine for the propeller forum for the entire life of the project.
  • Mike HuseltonMike Huselton Posts: 746
    edited 2009-02-23 22:38
    I just checked the Sandbox, and Phildapill is selling his single-prop design. So, it looks like when a project reaches the sales stage, the Sandbox is the place to create a new post announcing the availability of the product for sale.

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    JMH
  • rjo_rjo_ Posts: 1,825
    edited 2009-02-24 01:23
    Ken,

    That is absolutely beautiful. So, in addition to this little board... you also have little tubes filled with fluid and sensors to measure it all?

    Rich
  • rjo_rjo_ Posts: 1,825
    edited 2009-02-24 01:30
    Cluso99,

    I don't think it is an either/or. It seems to me that listing it in the finished products section would be ok. The tradition seems to be to list the quasi-commercial stuff in the Sandbox... but you keep it here until you have your final tweeks and costs.


    Rich
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2009-02-24 08:07
    Nice work Ken.
    I notice you have a wire on the chip near the USB. Is this an FT232R chip and if so is the datasheet correct or do I need to tie another pin (for my pcb)? I was planning on not connecting pins such as DCD and DSR as the datasheet indicates they can be left floating.
    Also I saw you do not overlap the mini USB over the pcb edge - the datasheet for the one I am using suggests 2mm over the pcb edge?

    Just curious, as I want to make my pcb the best I can smile.gif

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    Links to other interesting threads:

    · Home of the MultiBladeProps (SixBladeProp)
    · Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
    · Emulators (Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100) - index
    · Search the Propeller forums (via Google)

    My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
  • Dr_AculaDr_Acula Posts: 5,484
    edited 2009-02-24 12:47
    Re "This Blade is designed to run large programs, such as microcomputer emulations (see the PropAltair thread), large LMM programs, large C programs, etc."

    Sounds good! There are (as of today) 103 people working on the N8VEM project and lots of group experience there that ought to eventually be able to be ported over to a prop simulation. I like the inclusion of the ram on the board - it ought to add a lot of flexibility with code.
  • KenBashKenBash Posts: 68
    edited 2009-02-26 16:26
    I hadn't really given much thought to building some of these Trimotor boards for sale. I thought that by the time I actually did any production, the new propeller would have erased most of the advantages of a board like this. However, with the current specs for the new chip,( and unknown release date) it still MIGHT make sense to have multi-prop designs. I don't have a lot of time to spend on the project but if someone is interested enough in it... let me know and I'll see if we can work something out together. Having most of the user interface stuff on-board ( VGA, Keyboard, Mouse, RS-232 ) PLUS two more props ( one aimed at the USB chip, the other just there for ANYTHING ) It IS a nice board for industrial control. The two 37-pin connectors make it a nice "Plug ON" board for a larger circuit board having specific drivers, power supply, etc.

    As for cost, If you're familiar with Express PCB, you'll recognize the footprint of the board as their standard size for their 3 boards for $51.00. Naturally, cheap SOB that I am, most of my designs tend to fit this format. I checked a similar design and the price for 20 boards was in the range of $11.00 each. Depending on what all you actually PUT on the board... 3 props, Usb, RS-232 chip, etc. component cost would probably be edging up in the $50-60 range. I have had similar boards assembled by Screaming Circuits and am very impressed with their work. Rjo asked about having sensors and tubes on-board, that's in another design( Yes, prop based ) I have that controls a cluster of instruments for life cycle testing of heart valves and stents. I LOVE the Propeller!

    Cluso, you asked about my USB connector... frankly... I don't read as many spec sheets as I probably should... I haven't really USED the USB on this board and mainly put it there in anticipation of needing it for a future project. If someone is interested in using this board... Let's talk. I still have my layout around here somewhere.

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    " Anything worth doing... is worth overdoing. "

    ··············································· ( R.A.H. )
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  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2009-02-27 03:25
    For those anxiously waiting or following this thread - I had a few other issues this end. I am still laying the pcb (with mods to Blade 2) - hope to send it to production over the w/e - you will be surprised what I have achieved and will post this asap after the pcb is sent.

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    Links to other interesting threads:

    · Home of the MultiBladeProps (SixBladeProp)
    · Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
    · Emulators (Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100) - index
    · Search the Propeller forums (via Google)

    My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
  • Mike HuseltonMike Huselton Posts: 746
    edited 2009-02-27 06:09
    Whip Snap! Back to work!

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    JMH
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