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Manual

parskoparsko Posts: 501
edited 2006-05-17 13:45 in Propeller 1
258 pages!!!!!freaked.gif


I know it will be immensely helpful, but 258 pages freaked.gif


I have a lot more reading to do......

Parsko

Comments

  • Paul BakerPaul Baker Posts: 6,351
    edited 2006-05-02 12:32
    ROFL, if you notice, that isn't even all of it. Most of the assembly language docs haven't been posted yet devil.gif, the prelim docs we got showed an intended 5 chapters, though chapters·3 and 5 were skeletal.

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    1+1=10

    Post Edited (Paul Baker) : 5/2/2006 12:35:27 PM GMT
  • parskoparsko Posts: 501
    edited 2006-05-02 13:51
    I noticed just that as I was perusing it on the can!!! I thought these guys made this easy....

    -Parsko
  • Paul BakerPaul Baker Posts: 6,351
    edited 2006-05-02 14:07
    It is, but when you release something that is so feature rich as the Propeller, you have to adequately document all it. Chip and I sent many PMs and private forum threads back and forth with me seeking clarification on undocumented or under documented aspects during the intital period, and I was far from the only one doing so. The whole sticky·thread of Tricks and Traps was born from trying to shed light into the foggiest corners of the Propeller. With the amount of questions generated by just a handful of people, its clear why a controlled beta period is needed (read "small group of people").

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    1+1=10
  • Jon WilliamsJon Williams Posts: 6,491
    edited 2006-05-02 14:11
    It took Chip eight years to develop the Propelller and you thought you would master it overnight? lol.gif

    Be patient, Pasko, it won't take long for that "Aha!" moment and things will really start to flow.
    parsko said...
    I noticed just that as I was perusing it on the can!!! I thought these guys made this easy....

    -Parsko
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    Jon Williams
    Applications Engineer, Parallax
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2006-05-02 15:57
    Anyone and everyone, just read the first two chapters at this point to gain overview.
    Only 75 or so very informative pages.

    Chapter Four has 189 pages, but it really is just a lexicon of the commands.

    I haven't found any errata yet.

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    "When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)

    ······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
  • parskoparsko Posts: 501
    edited 2006-05-02 16:06
    Jon, had an aha moment about 1.5minutes ago, then read this post, and I must tell.

    The external eeprom thing.
    Just occured to me that one could only send another an eeprom chip, which is cheap, instead of a whole ucontroller, which isn't cheap. What I'm tryin to say is, that if you develop a system, and sell it, software updates are as easy as sending an 8-pin DIP in the mail. Also kinda dongle-like in security too. What a genius you guys are!!! That was a wish I had while concepting with my prior ucontroller, and you delivered. What a nifty feature!!!

    Oh, and I'm about 2 minutes from turning on the power to my Prop on my own DEMO (read demolition) board, fingers crossed!!!

    -Parsko
  • Steph LindsaySteph Lindsay Posts: 767
    edited 2006-05-02 16:53
    Hello Everyone,
    Kramer said...
    (I haven't found any errata yet.)
    While this is very encouraging, I'm sure I haven't caught everything!· I appreciate all your fresh eyes poring through the manual draft before·we commit it to the printing presses.· Please feel free to bombard me with errata, typo or technical, and I will compile it for the author (Jeff Martin) to remedy as needed.·

    Thanks much,
    Stephanie Lindsay
    mailto:editor@parallax.com
  • Jon WilliamsJon Williams Posts: 6,491
    edited 2006-05-02 17:01
    Well, Pasko, we expect you to start developing all kinds of cool products that you can update with a simple 8-pin EEPROM. The first commerical product on my list is a lighting dimmer for our EFX line; it will come in TTL serial, MIDI, and DMX versions. Yes, we will release the full source code.

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    Jon Williams
    Applications Engineer, Parallax
  • JavalinJavalin Posts: 892
    edited 2006-05-02 17:10
    Lindsay,

    I've some feedback to bombard you with from the manuals thus far released!

    Chapter 1 - Table 1.1 - "Do not exceed TBD ma source....."
    Chapter 1 - table 1.3 - seems to be missing some gridlines
    Chapter 1 - tables 1.6 to 1.9 - ditto

    Additions!
    Given the number of question's arround voltages on the forums - it might be useful to add a section dealing with handing 3.3v and 5v components.
    It might be useful to add a diagram of the usb2ser programming and serial programming connections for the propeller.

    Cool so far!

    James
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2006-05-02 17:35
    James,

    ·· TBD means, "To Be Determined".· We don't have a definitive answer on that value yet.

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    Chris Savage
    Parallax Tech Support
    csavage@parallax.com
  • JavalinJavalin Posts: 892
    edited 2006-05-02 17:58
    Ah,

    I am aware what TBD means. I wrongly guess'd that this was left over from an earlier doc.

    Yet in the previous sentance it specifies "Can source/sink 50mA each at 3.3 VDC" surely 32 * 50ma would yeild the answer?

    1.6amps??

    James
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2006-05-02 18:04
    James,

    ·· That is an incorrect assumption.· Just because the individual pins can source/sink 50 mA does not mean the chip die can handle the·combined power dissapation.· This is true of any microcontroller.· The BASIC Stamp for example can source/sink 20mA/25mA per I/O pin but only 40mA/50mA per group of 8 I/O pins.· Testing will reveal the maximum dissapation of the die.


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    Chris Savage
    Parallax Tech Support
    csavage@parallax.com
  • David BDavid B Posts: 591
    edited 2006-05-02 18:04
    In page 9 of PropellerManual-4-v0.4.pdf, the manual describes several ways to describe numbers: decimal (1479265), hex ($0123ABCD) and binary (%1001010101).

    But one of the Spin examples used a number in quaternary form "%%3210_0123_3333_3333" which isn't mentioned in the manual.

    Is this form accepted by Spin or assembly? If so, then it probably should be added to the manual.

    David
  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 14,133
    edited 2006-05-02 18:13
    %%01230123 is a valid number. We'll get it into the manual. This is handy for declaring two-bit pixel values.
    David B said...
    In page 9 of PropellerManual-4-v0.4.pdf, the manual describes several ways to describe numbers: decimal (1479265), hex ($0123ABCD) and binary (%1001010101).

    But one of the Spin examples used a number in quaternary form "%%3210_0123_3333_3333" which isn't mentioned in the manual.

    Is this form accepted by Spin or assembly? If so, then it probably should be added to the manual.

    David
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    Chip Gracey
    Parallax, Inc.
  • JavalinJavalin Posts: 892
    edited 2006-05-02 18:18
    Chris,

    Understood - I posted before I thought!

    James

    Post Edited (Javalin) : 5/2/2006 6:25:30 PM GMT
  • Paul BakerPaul Baker Posts: 6,351
    edited 2006-05-02 18:26
    Each pin providing power to the chip has been doubled bonded, so the extreme difference as seen with the stamp and SX chips between max/pin and max/chip wont be as dramatic, but there will likely still be a difference.

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    1+1=10
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2006-05-02 19:51
    Correct...Eventually we'll have that number.

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    Chris Savage
    Parallax Tech Support
    csavage@parallax.com
  • Charlie JohnsonCharlie Johnson Posts: 147
    edited 2006-05-02 20:14
    On top of page 162 of PropellerManual-4-v0.4.pdf .... Should be "Syntax Symbols" and not "STRSIZE"

    Charlie
  • Steph LindsaySteph Lindsay Posts: 767
    edited 2006-05-02 21:06
    Thanks for the errata leads, everyone.

    Please feel free to send basic typos directly to my email.· As you all have a chance to read through Chapter 4, I expect this thread could grow out of control otherwise!

    mailto:editor@parallax.com

    -Stephanie Lindsay
  • Kaos KiddKaos Kidd Posts: 614
    edited 2006-05-02 22:03
    Well Stephanie, we are just the helpfull sort!

    [noparse]:)[/noparse]

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    Just tossing my two bits worth into the bit bucket


    KK
    ·
  • CJCJ Posts: 470
    edited 2006-05-02 23:57
    Reading the language reference, lights are just coming on left and right, I am up to the 'D's

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    Who says you have to have knowledge to use it?

    I've killed a fly with my bare mind.
  • Stan671Stan671 Posts: 103
    edited 2006-05-03 14:14
    CJ said...
    Reading the language reference, lights are just coming on left and right, I am up to the 'D's

    Same here.· I find myself saying, "Cool!" or "Hmmmmm",·out loud to myself as I am reading the Spin language reference manual.

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    Stan Dobrowski
  • Paul BakerPaul Baker Posts: 6,351
    edited 2006-05-03 14:17
    Here's some food for thought: all the instructions and the byte code engine fit in less than 512 instructions.

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    1+1=10
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2006-05-03 15:25
    We know.

    I can't wait to get a look at it, and I'm seriously considering having the HEX code printed on a T-shirt...
    (If no one at Parallax minds, that is...)

    Or, maybe one with the 'round diagram' and the text 'Propellers does it Spinning'...
    smile.gif

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    Don't visit my new website...
  • Kaos KiddKaos Kidd Posts: 614
    edited 2006-05-03 17:24
    LOL@Gadgetman... [noparse]:)[/noparse]

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    Just tossing my two bits worth into the bit bucket


    KK
    ·
  • parskoparsko Posts: 501
    edited 2006-05-17 13:45
    Folks at Parallax,

    Any update to when the remaining parts of the manual will be available?

    -Parsko
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