In regards to those comments concerning zoom meetings centered on development, this was the main reason I brought it up in the first place. But Ken would like to kick off a weekly meeting for everyone and I'm ok with that too. I'm pretty sure that once we have done that, that then it would be easy to schedule zoom meetings as required with devs concerned.
As for official logos, I would think not for many reasons. However most MCU companies have approved vendors and third parties listed on their websites and indeed they rely on them to support the product. Instead of money, they support the vendors with information, samples, time, etc.
What Eric can do is have some kind of "it's free, but feel free to donate" method. Those who appreciate his efforts and benefit from them can contribute. If it were a phone app and a very wide audience you could actually make some money, but alas, this is not so. However, while money can help offset the many costs of development of "free" tools, money is not the reason we, nor Chip himself, do any of this in the first place.
I suggest giving him more than a marketing allowance. I think FlexGUI/fastspin should be promoted by Parallax, and should be listed as an official Parallax development tool on the Parallax website.
Thank you for your support guys, but I think it's clear that Parallax doesn't have money to put into P2 tools (right now at least). Support is going to have to come from the community. People have been pretty generous, but obviously the current P2 community is not large enough to support anyone full time . I think we all hope that will change someday.
We currently have no internal efforts for C/C++. We don't have the staff or funds to create the compiler and would rely on community-provided tools. It's a topic we should discuss together - in person - with whoever would like to join in. I'd like to know what you think we should do in this regard, too.
I should probably have been clearer. I wasn't asking about specific tools necessarily. Rather, I think it would be helpful for those of us on the "outside" to know what tools Parallax are working on internally so as to avoid duplication of effort. Also, what are your marketing plans for the P2? Do you hope someday to have Blockly on it? Are you aiming primarily at education, at the hobbyist market, or at professional developers? I realize you may not have answers to all of these questions, but they do seem relevant to tools development and perhaps a discussion would be illuminating.
However, while money can help offset the many costs of development of "free" tools, money is not the reason we, nor Chip himself, do any of this in the first place.
Indeed. Most of us would do it whether we were paid or not!
However, if Parallax really wants to spend money, they should spend it on documentation. The "official" documentation is quite sparse. These forums are a great resource, but this chip has been in development so long, and has undergone so many changes since its initial inception, that it is almost impossible to find accurate and up-to-date information here. Especially for newcomers. This is not anyone's fault - things are still changing rapidly. But many times I have needed accurate information on some specific issue, and have gone looking for it but have been unable to locate it - often you need to wade through literally hundreds of pages of contradictory or superseded information, and many times you just give up and do something else instead.
For the P2 to gain traction, this needs to be addressed before the official release.
We currently have no internal efforts for C/C++. We don't have the staff or funds to create the compiler and would rely on community-provided tools. It's a topic we should discuss together - in person - with whoever would like to join in. I'd like to know what you think we should do in this regard, too.
Ken Gracey
If there was one thing that could make a big difference it would be completing the fresh GCC port that @ntosme2 started but has seemingly put on hold or abandoned. It appeared he was making really good progress but got stuck near the end of it and needed some help. If there was any way to continue this effort and wrap it up for the Propeller2 it could be a huge win and help lure more professional developers to the P2, plus it would allow much easier porting of existing software designed for GCC type build environments to run on the P2. I really believe this is why Atmel had so much success with their AVR line of micros. Stock standard tools.
... And maintain them ... And push them into official GCC code. That is something that requires people involved almost full time and parallax just said don't have the resources. In the case that ersmith or ntosme2 or any other c guru here wants to do this port by himself, how can the P2 users fund this work?
Parallax are not the only ones struggling to figure out the best way to support gcc. For months, maybe years, the arduino community have been trying to raise money to update the avr gcc to the latest version lest avr gcc become unsupported. Maybe that's just how open source software works.
For the past 10+ years I've been happy with the PASM/SPIN ecosystem. On the Propeller I write mostly in PASM but sometimes add a little UI in SPIN, especially if a display or a lot of math is involved. If I need to develop in C, I use an ARM or an AVR.
That has suddenly changed. A big project was dumped into my lap that really needs a Propeller and a combo of PASM and C. (I really just dabble in SPIN; when push comes to shove I think in C.)
I'd be _very_ interested in a Zoom meeting about what is available in C and how it can coexist and interact with PASM cogs.
@K2,
Eric's fastspin can do some C. Not sure of its' limitations so you need to ask Eric.
Ross has released Catalina C for P2 now. I used Catalina C on the P1 for a commercial project. Note that I did not write the C code but it did work nicely with pasm. You need to write you own mailbox code but you have to do that with pasm to pasm anyway.
@ErNa,
Once you join a meeting (ie register for the Parallax event) you will receive an email with the meeting# and a password#. For the link to the meeting IIRC there are two threads about the Zoom meetup. It's in one of them, forget which.
I was talking to Cluso99 (Ray) and decided that I could do the first 20 mins or so, he could do the next, and then I can come back on. While Parallax will no doubt be there to host and pick the right time to interject when participants put up their hand during a part, Ray and I will also be there to backup each other, both as host, and as presenter in case we have technical glitches etc. But see how we go.
@Cluso99 - I updated some details on the registration but maybe you can check and fix up any of those details to suit.
For the past 10+ years I've been happy with the PASM/SPIN ecosystem. On the Propeller I write mostly in PASM but sometimes add a little UI in SPIN, especially if a display or a lot of math is involved. If I need to develop in C, I use an ARM or an AVR.
That has suddenly changed. A big project was dumped into my lap that really needs a Propeller and a combo of PASM and C. (I really just dabble in SPIN; when push comes to shove I think in C.)
I'd be _very_ interested in a Zoom meeting about what is available in C and how it can coexist and interact with PASM cogs.
Are you talking about C for the ordinary Propeller (Propeller 1) or for the Propeller 2? Those are very different things. If you need C for the Propeller 1, I suggest you open a thread on the forums; there are a number of mature solutions for P1 and lots of people will be able to help you out. P2 is another story . You could try FlexGUI (available from the link in my signature) which has a simple C compiler for both P1 and P2.
@ArnoldBernadette said:
I would like to attend these, but if it's during the day on weekdays
The time has been chosen to try and work around the times of the presenters and the attendees. We're all over the world and no one time really suits everyone. For example we have the UK and Australia (opposite ends) and with Europe and USA too. Videos are posted as soon as Ken can get it done which is usually a few days to a week.
There is a lot of C code out there for the Propeller 1. If you use SimpleIDE there are several libraries that are available that do all kinds of functions and interface to a number of devices. Getting your feet on the ground to pull this together though make take some work.
Comments
As for official logos, I would think not for many reasons. However most MCU companies have approved vendors and third parties listed on their websites and indeed they rely on them to support the product. Instead of money, they support the vendors with information, samples, time, etc.
What Eric can do is have some kind of "it's free, but feel free to donate" method. Those who appreciate his efforts and benefit from them can contribute. If it were a phone app and a very wide audience you could actually make some money, but alas, this is not so. However, while money can help offset the many costs of development of "free" tools, money is not the reason we, nor Chip himself, do any of this in the first place.
Thank you for your support guys, but I think it's clear that Parallax doesn't have money to put into P2 tools (right now at least). Support is going to have to come from the community. People have been pretty generous, but obviously the current P2 community is not large enough to support anyone full time
I should probably have been clearer. I wasn't asking about specific tools necessarily. Rather, I think it would be helpful for those of us on the "outside" to know what tools Parallax are working on internally so as to avoid duplication of effort. Also, what are your marketing plans for the P2? Do you hope someday to have Blockly on it? Are you aiming primarily at education, at the hobbyist market, or at professional developers? I realize you may not have answers to all of these questions, but they do seem relevant to tools development and perhaps a discussion would be illuminating.
Indeed. Most of us would do it whether we were paid or not!
However, if Parallax really wants to spend money, they should spend it on documentation. The "official" documentation is quite sparse. These forums are a great resource, but this chip has been in development so long, and has undergone so many changes since its initial inception, that it is almost impossible to find accurate and up-to-date information here. Especially for newcomers. This is not anyone's fault - things are still changing rapidly. But many times I have needed accurate information on some specific issue, and have gone looking for it but have been unable to locate it - often you need to wade through literally hundreds of pages of contradictory or superseded information, and many times you just give up and do something else instead.
For the P2 to gain traction, this needs to be addressed before the official release.
If there was one thing that could make a big difference it would be completing the fresh GCC port that @ntosme2 started but has seemingly put on hold or abandoned. It appeared he was making really good progress but got stuck near the end of it and needed some help. If there was any way to continue this effort and wrap it up for the Propeller2 it could be a huge win and help lure more professional developers to the P2, plus it would allow much easier porting of existing software designed for GCC type build environments to run on the P2. I really believe this is why Atmel had so much success with their AVR line of micros. Stock standard tools.
I hope there will be a good P2 PASM tutorial for P2. As this MCU was designed to be programmed directly in assembly (I think this were Chip words).
Checking the zoom meeting schedule tells me it is 5 am here duh..
That has suddenly changed. A big project was dumped into my lap that really needs a Propeller and a combo of PASM and C. (I really just dabble in SPIN; when push comes to shove I think in C.)
I'd be _very_ interested in a Zoom meeting about what is available in C and how it can coexist and interact with PASM cogs.
Eric's fastspin can do some C. Not sure of its' limitations so you need to ask Eric.
Ross has released Catalina C for P2 now. I used Catalina C on the P1 for a commercial project. Note that I did not write the C code but it did work nicely with pasm. You need to write you own mailbox code but you have to do that with pasm to pasm anyway.
@ErNa,
Once you join a meeting (ie register for the Parallax event) you will receive an email with the meeting# and a password#. For the link to the meeting IIRC there are two threads about the Zoom meetup. It's in one of them, forget which.
From the other thread
Testing Hardware with TAQOZ in ROM with Peter Jakacki
Jun 17, 2020 08:00 PM Pacific Time (US and Canada)
Register here https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZAlfuGsqTwpG9PYqlxVlHFzHAvCQCmqa-NZ
@Cluso99 - I updated some details on the registration but maybe you can check and fix up any of those details to suit.
Are you talking about C for the ordinary Propeller (Propeller 1) or for the Propeller 2? Those are very different things. If you need C for the Propeller 1, I suggest you open a thread on the forums; there are a number of mature solutions for P1 and lots of people will be able to help you out. P2 is another story
The time has been chosen to try and work around the times of the presenters and the attendees. We're all over the world and no one time really suits everyone. For example we have the UK and Australia (opposite ends) and with Europe and USA too. Videos are posted as soon as Ken can get it done which is usually a few days to a week.
There is a Tetris topic. Its main program is in C. It uses and calls spin objects.
@K2 ,
There is a lot of C code out there for the Propeller 1. If you use SimpleIDE there are several libraries that are available that do all kinds of functions and interface to a number of devices. Getting your feet on the ground to pull this together though make take some work.
Let me know if you need some help.
Mike