Parallax P2 Eval Board

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Comments

  • W9GFO share the idea that I was going to! I have run into this several times for special order items at various sites.
    The items are on the normal store, but they usually use $999,999.99 or some other value that is unlikely to be approved via any credit system.
  • Its a fun idea.

    As for the arbitrary $10k or whatever, you could just estimate the P2 development cost to date, and divide by 110~135 boards, before applying that special "valued P2 champion" discount voucher
  • Peter already knows, but just to record it, I would like a P2D2.
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  • Same here Cluso. I've mentioned it in a few places to hope it doesn't get overlooked!
  • Got it fellas, and as soon as I've got some, you've got it too.

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  • RaymanRayman Posts: 9,716
    edited 2018-11-15 - 16:10:28
    If you priced the board at $1000, somebody might actually pay that...

    I'm glad to be here at the launch of P2.
    Think I was still learning Basic Stamps when P1 came out...
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  • Rayman wrote: »
    If you priced the board at $1000, somebody might actually pay that...

    I was just thinking that. : P
    The price would have to be some insane amount like $999,999.99
    Because someone might make a mistake with the coupon code and charge themselves $999.99.
  • W9GFO wrote: »
    Ken Gracey wrote: »
    I believe the number of early adopters is probably around 100 people. We'll have somewhere around 120 boards in stock. I'd simply put up a web page where they can be ordered on-line and note the link to that page here on the forums. It wouldn't be advertised on the Parallax home page, via social media, etc. The goal is to notify people who have expressed interest and can do initial testing without attracting the general technical public (we aren't ready for them, as we have no datasheets, minimal programming tools, etc.). Those people are you, here on the forums.

    Do you think this will work?

    The alternative is we start a Google form to collect all of your data. This gives us some control over how many you order, but it also poses some problems: collecting credit card numbers.

    Ken Gracey
    You could put them in the store like you said but make the price $10,000. Then generate some single use coupon codes for $9,850 or $10,000 off and have someone send those via PM to the people that qualify.

    Just an idea...

    Cool, finally I can fill up the shopping cart with all the goodies Parallax offers and I never could buy - and pay with a Coupon. :smile:

    Mike
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    The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this post are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119.
  • Rayman wrote: »
    If you priced the board at $1000, somebody might actually pay that...
    $10,000 was the suggested price - if someone wanted to pay that - I say let 'em!
  • W9GFO wrote: »
    Rayman wrote: »
    If you priced the board at $1000, somebody might actually pay that...
    $10,000 was the suggested price - if someone wanted to pay that - I say let 'em!

    It's got to be signed by Chip! :)
    Infernal Machine
  • jmgjmg Posts: 13,903
    edited 2018-11-15 - 18:54:02
    cgracey wrote: »
    We should have the P2 Eval PCBs back towards the end of next week.

    Did you order those with thicker copper ? eg I noticed pcbway had no price change for 1.5oz on inner layers.

  • jmg wrote: »
    cgracey wrote: »
    We should have the P2 Eval PCBs back towards the end of next week.

    Did you order those with thicker copper ? eg I noticed pcbnew had no price change for 1.5oz on inner layers.

    We had hoped for 4 oz copper on the bottom of the board, but some spaces/traces precluded that. It will be 3 oz copper.
  • jmgjmg Posts: 13,903
    cgracey wrote: »
    jmg wrote: »
    cgracey wrote: »
    We should have the P2 Eval PCBs back towards the end of next week.

    Did you order those with thicker copper ? eg I noticed pcbnew had no price change for 1.5oz on inner layers.

    We had hoped for 4 oz copper on the bottom of the board, but some spaces/traces precluded that. It will be 3 oz copper.

    How do they do thick copper on one layer ? - does that mean layers 3,4 are 3 Oz ?
  • jmg wrote: »
    cgracey wrote: »
    jmg wrote: »
    cgracey wrote: »
    We should have the P2 Eval PCBs back towards the end of next week.

    Did you order those with thicker copper ? eg I noticed pcbnew had no price change for 1.5oz on inner layers.

    We had hoped for 4 oz copper on the bottom of the board, but some spaces/traces precluded that. It will be 3 oz copper.

    How do they do thick copper on one layer ? - does that mean layers 3,4 are 3 Oz ?

    It was some kind of composite sandwich. The bottom layer was not associated materially with the other layers.
  • jmg wrote: »
    cgracey wrote: »
    jmg wrote: »
    cgracey wrote: »
    We should have the P2 Eval PCBs back towards the end of next week.

    Did you order those with thicker copper ? eg I noticed pcbnew had no price change for 1.5oz on inner layers.

    We had hoped for 4 oz copper on the bottom of the board, but some spaces/traces precluded that. It will be 3 oz copper.

    How do they do thick copper on one layer ? - does that mean layers 3,4 are 3 Oz ?

    My understanding (at least from local pcb manufacturer) is the core is made from normal FR4 2 layer, typically 1/2 oz copper, for the middle 2 layers (2 and 3), and to this they clad 'prepreg' single fibreglass layer 1 and 4. And the copper thickness is grown from a 'seed' thickness, but I would think 3 oz copper would therefore apply to both outer layers 1 and 4.

    This is all good, 3oz copper will be really solid. Nothing can go wrong.
  • Here is from the PCB manufacturer:

    P2_Eval_PCB.png
    690 x 653 - 37K
  • You can see that it's actually two boards with a "core" spacer between them that carries the long vias. Short vias can exist between L1 and L2, and between L3 and L4.
  • msrobots wrote: »
    Cool, finally I can fill up the shopping cart with all the goodies Parallax offers and I never could buy - and pay with a Coupon. :smile:
    I'm confident they would have the foresight to make the coupon valid only for the P2 Eval Board.
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 10,959
    edited 2018-11-15 - 21:32:59
    Thanks for sharing Chip! That's a fat board! Should have some good thermal characteristics.
    Infernal Machine
  • jmgjmg Posts: 13,903
    cgracey wrote: »
    You can see that it's actually two boards with a "core" spacer between them that carries the long vias. Short vias can exist between L1 and L2, and between L3 and L4.

    Usually they charge more for blind vias, are you using any of those ?

    I notice the core is quite thick, and the 2 x 2 layer boards are thin, would make layer-layer capacitance higher on 1-2 and 3-4.
  • Thats right, the 1-2 or 3-4 capacitance I figure would be about 3~4nF, if it was whole layer to whole layer coupling.
  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 11,702
    edited 2018-11-15 - 21:38:52
    jmg wrote: »
    cgracey wrote: »
    You can see that it's actually two boards with a "core" spacer between them that carries the long vias. Short vias can exist between L1 and L2, and between L3 and L4.

    Usually they charge more for blind vias, are you using any of those ?

    I notice the core is quite thick, and the 2 x 2 layer boards are thin, would make layer-layer capacitance higher on 1-2 and 3-4.

    Probably.

    We are using blind vias on L1-L2, probably on L3-L4, too.

    Notice the bottom copper plating is twice as thick as the substrate it's attached to. They can do 4mil vias on those thin substrates.
  • jmgjmg Posts: 13,903
    cgracey wrote: »
    Notice the bottom copper plating is twice as thick as the substrate it's attached to. They can do 4mil vias on those thin substrates.

    Wow, so it is.... could be interesting to measure a bare board inherent decoupling capacitances.


    cgracey wrote: »
    We are using blind vias on L1-L2, probably on L3-L4, too.

    What was the price-adder for using bind vias ?

  • cgracey wrote: »
    cgracey wrote: »
    W9GFO wrote: »
    ...
    Publison wrote: »
    OK.... who is going to be the first for 3D print or laser cut enclosure?
    I don't know if I will be first but I do want to design a laser cut enclosure for it.

    I assume the design software can output a 3d model of that board, can we get that 3d model?

    I'll ask him. Okay, I just asked him about that.

    He said he'll get to this next week.
    Any news about the 3d model?
  • W9GFO wrote: »
    cgracey wrote: »
    cgracey wrote: »
    W9GFO wrote: »
    ...
    Publison wrote: »
    OK.... who is going to be the first for 3D print or laser cut enclosure?
    I don't know if I will be first but I do want to design a laser cut enclosure for it.

    I assume the design software can output a 3d model of that board, can we get that 3d model?

    I'll ask him. Okay, I just asked him about that.

    He said he'll get to this next week.
    Any news about the 3d model?

    I just emailed VonSzarvas, who is working on this. He will say something soon.
  • Jmg, I don't know what it cost for the blind vias.

    Here is some communication on the PCB ordering...
    Finally we got the stackup. (attached).
    Looks fine on 4oz.


    The price difference if we reduce that to 3oz or 2oz is $100 per oz drop.
    (About $0.80 saving per pcb on 3oz, $1.60 on 2oz)

    Are you happy with 4oz, or dial that back a bit ?


    ALSO....

    Should we order these on 6 day or 10 day ?

    6 day adds about $3 per board. ( $18.45 vs $15.30 )
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 10,959
    edited 2018-11-15 - 22:57:05
    Will the PCB be Open Source?
    Infernal Machine
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  • Publison wrote: »
    Will the PCB be Open Source?

    Our PCB files have always been open source long before an organization existed to validate the purpose.

    We will put out PCB files after we prove out the functionality of the design. You will be able to do what you want with them, free of restrictions.

    But this will only happen after we know the PCB is a known, working product.

    Thanks,

    Ken Gracey
  • jmgjmg Posts: 13,903
    Ken Gracey wrote: »
    Publison wrote: »
    Will the PCB be Open Source?

    Our PCB files have always been open source long before an organization existed to validate the purpose.

    We will put out PCB files after we prove out the functionality of the design. You will be able to do what you want with them, free of restrictions.

    I think most vendors publish their eval info, because it is in everyone's interest to have good reference designs.
    That was one reason I tried to get Chip to improve the Switcher design, to something more 2018+ and elegant.

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