I want a P2! And how are we going to get these to you?

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  • Dave Hein wrote: »
    cgracey wrote: »
    Rayman wrote: »
    Has the general layout for the November test boards been decided yet?

    Just thinking that maybe I could start on a board to mate to it...

    Yes. It is almost done. We should be able to put a rendering of it up by Monday.

    Just curious whether the design for the test board is done yet. I'm really looking forward to getting one with one of the P2s that are coming early next month.

    Hoping for a Happy ThanksChipping this November!

    It's coming along, but going through lots of iterations. It's on its way to being complete. As soon as we have it done, we will post a picture.
  • jmgjmg Posts: 13,457
    cgracey wrote: »
    It's coming along, but going through lots of iterations. It's on its way to being complete. As soon as we have it done, we will post a picture.

    Iterations are very common on PCB designs :)

    If there is room, could you include a SON16 footprint, for the NAU7802 ?

    That's a low cost i2c 2 Ch 24b ADC, that could be used to calibrate/prove any of the DAC's and ADC's in P2, as well as monitor Current draws.
    (includes temperature sensor) Digikey shows good stock levels.

  • jmg wrote: »
    cgracey wrote: »
    It's coming along, but going through lots of iterations. It's on its way to being complete. As soon as we have it done, we will post a picture.

    Iterations are very common on PCB designs :)

    If there is room, could you include a SON16 footprint, for the NAU7802 ?

    That's a low cost i2c 2 Ch 24b ADC, that could be used to calibrate/prove any of the DAC's and ADC's in P2, as well as monitor Current draws.
    (includes temperature sensor) Digikey shows good stock levels.

    Every eight pins come out to a 2x6 header. We can make all kinds of little add-on boards. That's where that part should go.
  • jmgjmg Posts: 13,457
    cgracey wrote: »
    jmg wrote: »
    cgracey wrote: »
    It's coming along, but going through lots of iterations. It's on its way to being complete. As soon as we have it done, we will post a picture.

    Iterations are very common on PCB designs :)

    If there is room, could you include a SON16 footprint, for the NAU7802 ?

    That's a low cost i2c 2 Ch 24b ADC, that could be used to calibrate/prove any of the DAC's and ADC's in P2, as well as monitor Current draws.
    (includes temperature sensor) Digikey shows good stock levels.

    Every eight pins come out to a 2x6 header. We can make all kinds of little add-on boards. That's where that part should go.

    Makes sense, google finds this reference breakout design, that could modify to 2x6 - loads ok into KiCAD.

    http://kehribar.me/hardware/breakout_nau7802/
  • cgracey wrote: »
    jmg wrote: »
    cgracey wrote: »
    It's coming along, but going through lots of iterations. It's on its way to being complete. As soon as we have it done, we will post a picture.

    Iterations are very common on PCB designs :)

    If there is room, could you include a SON16 footprint, for the NAU7802 ?

    That's a low cost i2c 2 Ch 24b ADC, that could be used to calibrate/prove any of the DAC's and ADC's in P2, as well as monitor Current draws.
    (includes temperature sensor) Digikey shows good stock levels.

    Every eight pins come out to a 2x6 header. We can make all kinds of little add-on boards. That's where that part should go.

    That's a great way to make prototyping a project easier. I did something similar to the first Propeller (Protoboard) I purchased. Brought all the I/O, Gnd, +3.3V, and +5V out to 2x8 pin headers so peripheral boards could be connected by a short ribbon cable or plugged in. Made prototypes much neater and more reliable. Still use it as my main prototyping board.
    1155 x 642 - 132K
    In science there is no authority. There is only experiment.
    Life is unpredictable. Eat dessert first.
  • Looks good, Kwinn. Maybe we can get a picture of ours out today.
  • I'd like to buy at least one board. Hopefully two, if there are enough available.

    Leo
  • I would purchase a board to help support the cause.
  • Tomorrow is Nov 1. Weren't the next 1000 chips supposed to be delivered to Rocklin about then? Any idea when the boards will be for sale?
  • AFAIK there was only 160 chips coming?
    Melbourne, Australia
  • ozpropdev wrote: »
    AFAIK there was only 160 chips coming?
    Hmmm... You're probably right. I'm always overly optimistic. :smile:

  • David,
    It's ~140 chips. There are also ~1500 dies on the uncut wafers.
    My Prop boards: P8XBlade2, RamBlade, CpuBlade, TriBlade
    Prop OS (also see Sphinx, PropDos, PropCmd, Spinix)
    Website: www.clusos.com
    Prop Tools (Index) , Emulators (Index) , ZiCog (Z80)
  • Cluso99 wrote: »
    David,
    It's ~140 chips. There are also ~1500 dies on the uncut wafers.
    140 is plenty for me but what are the rest of you going to do? :wink:
  • jmgjmg Posts: 13,457
    David Betz wrote: »
    Cluso99 wrote: »
    David,
    It's ~140 chips. There are also ~1500 dies on the uncut wafers.
    140 is plenty for me but what are the rest of you going to do? :wink:

    That 140 does not sound like very many, but Chip said something earlier about OnSemi 'business model' not wanting to release more.
    To me, that stance seemed somewhat confused thinking, as it is in OnSemi's long term interest to have P2 ramp as quickly as possible. To do that, maximum bug-shakeout is needed, along with code-evaluation for device design-in selection for 2019.

    Or maybe that was code for OnSemi wanted more $$ to release more packaged devices, and Parallax wanted to save some money ?
  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 9,714
    edited 2018-11-01 - 03:03:50
    I think it is a combination. On has an opportunity cost for entertaining any of this.

    They know moving to a mask set or sets everyone can commit to reasonably and prudently is best for everyone.

    The team helping on this is not securing their next big run of chips. I will bet it is as simple as that.

    The packaging company has the same opportunity cost. A short run setup costs a lot.

    Protos are nearly always investments. Costly ones too. Just look at what boutique proto shops in any industry charge. It is insane.

    Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball! @opengeekorg ---> Be Excellent To One Another SKYPE = acuity_doug
    Parallax colors simplified: https://forums.parallax.com/discussion/123709/commented-graphics-demo-spin<br>
  • David Betz wrote: »
    ozpropdev wrote: »
    AFAIK there was only 160 chips coming?
    Hmmm... You're probably right. I'm always overly optimistic. :smile:

    Something like this. Initially, it seemed that we'd have around 1K chips, but we're packaging less since we're going for another round. This means we'll have around 100 boards made.

    What to sell them for? Don't know that it even matters. It's not as if 100 boards will help us start to recover the investment, especially with the PCB non-recurring engineering costs, machine setup, etc. The purpose of these 100 PCBs is to get a solid start on the development tools, code examples, and really shake out the chip's behavior.

    I think 100 PCBs should be enough for the early adopters.

    Ken Gracey
  • I suspect that if we beg them, ON Semi will package some more of those other 5 wafers for us. We all want the same thing in the long run.
  • Ken Gracey wrote: »
    I think 100 PCBs should be enough for the early adopters.

    Ken Gracey

    100 boards is enough as long as I can get my hands on one or two for myself. : P *haha*

    Thanks Ken.
  • jmgjmg Posts: 13,457
    edited 2018-11-01 - 03:35:58
    Ken Gracey wrote: »
    .... This means we'll have around 100 boards made.

    What to sell them for? Don't know that it even matters. It's not as if 100 boards will help us start to recover the investment, especially with the PCB non-recurring engineering costs, machine setup, etc. The purpose of these 100 PCBs is to get a solid start on the development tools, code examples, and really shake out the chip's behavior.

    I think 100 PCBs should be enough for the early adopters.

    The 100?/140?/160? parts need to split across 2 PCB designs that are active, and you may need some means to ration & limit totals, if just 100 in total.
    For some P2 tests (like fast serial links), and for backup 'slip insurance' & second opinion checks, means many users will like to have 2 boards.

    If your focus is explicitly on "get a solid start on the development tools, code examples, and really shake out the chip's behavior", then you may need to filter out those who (for example) wanted to start product development and design start evaluation.

    On that angle, I'm surprised garryj who has been doing the USB code development, did not get one of the very first lot. USB has to be vital to P2, surely ?
    garryj mentions things like " In general, USB 2.0 parts work well, but 3.x parts can be finicky, which I think may be related to the current 80Mhz ceiling." in other threads. ie FPGA platform is sounding wobbly, whilst a real P2 allows elastic clock movement to check that aspect.

  • jmg wrote: »
    On that angle, I'm surprised garryj who has been doing the USB code development, did not get one of the very first lot. USB has to be vital to P2, surely ?
    garryj mentions things like " In general, USB 2.0 parts work well, but 3.x parts can be finicky, which I think may be related to the current 80Mhz ceiling." in other threads. ie FPGA platform is sounding wobbly, whilst a real P2 allows elastic clock movement to check that aspect.

    Agreed, USB is of utmost importance. You might be overestimating our ability to manage this process, at least at this point. While Chip has been busy with engineering, I've actually been out of the office a few weeks. And the rest of the team - they have been putting all efforts into our educational programs. Without these efforts, there would be no P2 (by now, forum members are likely tired of me pointing this out). We will identify and take care of the key contributors, including garryj. Thanks for pointing this out to us.

    But when I get back next week I will be turning my attention to the Propeller 2's planning and integration into our product line. From finances to who gets these boards and where information is hosted, I expect that we'll get quite organized in the coming weeks.

    We welcome your input, as always.

    Ken Gracey
  • Ym2413aYm2413a Posts: 630
    edited 2018-11-01 - 09:05:17
    Because it's late at night and I got nothing better to do now that the kids are asleep, I totalled up all the people up who asked to receive a P2 or P2 board.

    79 People have asked.
    Some asked for multiplies so the total requested P2s comes out to: 97

    I changed my request to a single board, since the limited supply.
    I'm doing DSP/Audio stuff much like I did on the P1. So I only need one board really to test that out.

    People who've asked:
    Heater.
    78rpm
    Ahle2
    Ale
    Amaral
    AntoineDoinel
    Bean x2
    Bob Lawrence (VE1RLL)
    Cluso99
    Coley
    Dave Hein
    DaveJenson x2
    David Betz
    DavidZemon
    Ding-Batty x2
    DiverBob
    Electrodude
    Genetix x2
    Jim Fouch x2
    John Abshier x2
    Jon_Thomasson
    K2
    LeoD x2
    MByron x2
    MJB
    Mickster
    Mike Green
    PropGuy2
    Publison
    R Baggett x2
    Ramon x2
    Rayman x2
    Roy Eltham
    Seairth
    T Chap
    Teva McMillan x5
    TonyB_
    Tor
    TrapperBob
    Tubular
    Whit
    Ym2413a
    __red__
    avsa242
    banjo
    cheezus x2
    ctwardell
    dgately
    evanh
    fixmax x2
    fpalmans
    frank freedman
    hkiela
    ikemschn
    iseries
    jac_goudsmit
    jmg
    ke4pjw
    kwinn
    localroger
    marrokev x2
    marsman2020
    msrobots
    octetta
    pedward x2
    pik33
    pmrobert x2
    potatohead
    rjo__
    rosco_pc
    samuell
    thej
    ti85
    tomcrawford
    tritonium
    tw1
    twm47099
    veluxllc
    wmosscrop
  • Hey, I'm not on the list. I'd love a P2 for Christmas as well. It's been a long time waiting...

  • Heater. wrote: »
    Hey, I'm not on the list. I'd love a P2 for Christmas as well. It's been a long time waiting...

    I just added you. : ] Sorry about that. must have missed your comment.
  • And I need two!
  • cgracey wrote: »
    And I need two!

    *lol* I'm sure you are first in line. : ]
  • cgracey wrote: »
    And I need two!

    Nah! Why would the designer want any :wink:
    My Prop boards: P8XBlade2, RamBlade, CpuBlade, TriBlade
    Prop OS (also see Sphinx, PropDos, PropCmd, Spinix)
    Website: www.clusos.com
    Prop Tools (Index) , Emulators (Index) , ZiCog (Z80)
  • JRetSapDoogJRetSapDoog Posts: 789
    edited 2018-11-01 - 10:03:34
    jmg wrote: »
    If your focus is explicitly on "get a solid start on the development tools, code examples, and really shake out the chip's behavior", then you may need to filter out those who (for example) wanted to start product development and design start evaluation.
    Yep, which is why I've resisted putting my name on the unofficial list each time that I saw someone understandably express interest. While the squeaky wheel gets the grease, I'm not a tool developer or a driver creator, so I'd rather see "my" board go to someone that can "hit the ground running" and contribute to testing the chip, characterizing it, or developing the ecosystem (programming tools or drivers), such as garryj like jmg mentioned. As another example, if someone is porting over an SD card driver, such as Kye's with sub-directory support, that's something that could benefit lots of folks (I believe that Cluso99 has done some work in that regard). Of course, cool products or applications that utilize the P2 could also help the P2 garner attention and gain momentum, but the time for such things will come. If good things come to those that patiently wait, here's hoping that better things come to those that impatiently but willingly wait (the camp that I'm in). Anyway, I think things are happening in an orderly way and will continue to do so as more chips/boards become available. For example, it certainly made sense for a couple of test chips to go "down under" where a lot of development activity has taken place. So, one way or another, it's all going to work out pretty well, and Parallax will help see to that. But the nerve of you folks asking for two! Shame on you! No soup for you! Ha-ha.
  • Ahle2Ahle2 Posts: 952
    edited 2018-11-01 - 08:56:14
    Chip, I'm interested in developing sound drivers for SPDIF, I2S and analog smart pins. If you have a board for me I will put it to good use. Amp, I2S modules and speakers are arriving any day now.
    SIDcog - The sound of the Commodore 64 in a single cog: Thread, OBEX
  • Ahle2 wrote: »
    Chip, I'm interested in developing sound drivers for SPDIF, I2S and analog smart pins. If you have a board for me I will put it to good use. Amp, I2S modules and speakers are arriving any day now.

    Cool Ahle, I got plans to write a sound driver as well.
    Sound is something that gets over looked. : ]
  • jmg wrote: »
    If your focus is explicitly on "get a solid start on the development tools, code examples, and really shake out the chip's behavior", then you may need to filter out those who (for example) wanted to start product development and design start evaluation.
    So, one way or another, it's all going to work out pretty well, and Parallax will help see to that. But the nerve of you folks asking for two! Shame on you! No soup for you! Ha-ha.

    Man, I hope you're joking... I can speak of myself, but be sure "the nerve of asking for two" was done in the perspective of getting 1500 chips packaged and put on boards.
    I'd be more than happy if I can't get one, or even zero if that means that it goes in "better" hands.
    By better I mean not only recent, but also historical contributors, should they decide to ask for one (COME ON JEFF LEDGER, GET ON THE LIST! :lol:)
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