Windows 10 OS with the P2

AwesomeCronk · 2018-05-21 22:34

Hello, I heard from my computer teacher today, that Windows 10 adapts to fit the requirements of almost any C-speaking processor. Could someone possibly load Windows 10 onto a P2(or even a P1), and then build a PC around the Prop?

jmg · 2018-05-21 22:50

AwesomeCronk wrote: »

Hello, I heard from my computer teacher today, that Windows 10 adapts to fit the requirements of almost any C-speaking processor. Could someone possibly load Windows 10 onto a P2(or even a P1), and then build a PC around the Prop?

Given someone has Linux booting on a AVR8, (yes, glacially), perhaps a smarter question is : "Is that practical ?"

Certainly, you could build a File system/Display/Keyboard/Mouse infrastructure on a P2.

AwesomeCronk · 2018-05-21 22:54

jmg wrote: »

Given someone has Linux booting on a AVR8, (yes, glacially), perhaps a smarter question is : "Is that practical ?"

Certainly, you could build a File system/Display/Keyboard/Mouse infrastructure on a P2.

What do you mean, "Linux booting on a AVR8"?

jmg · 2018-05-21 23:04

AwesomeCronk wrote: »

jmg wrote: »

Given someone has Linux booting on a AVR8, (yes, glacially), perhaps a smarter question is : "Is that practical ?"

Certainly, you could build a File system/Display/Keyboard/Mouse infrastructure on a P2.

What do you mean, "Linux booting on a AVR8"?

AVR8 is an 8 bit, single chip microcontroller, and yes, someone has booted Linux on that ! (with external memory...)
Here is one example : http://dmitry.gr/?r=05.Projects&proj=07. Linux on 8bit

I like this bit

"How fast is it?
uARM is certainly no speed demon. It takes about 2 hours to boot to bash prompt ("init=/bin/bash" kernel command line). Then 4 more hours to boot up the entire Ubuntu ("exec init" and then login). Starting X takes a lot longer. The effective emulated CPU speed is about 6.5KHz, which is on par with what you'd expect emulating a 32-bit CPU & MMU on a measly 8-bit micro. Curiously enough, once booted, the system is somewhat usable. You can type a command and get a reply within a minute. That is to say that you can, in fact, use it. I used it to day to format an SD card, for example. This is definitely not the fastest, but I think it may be the cheapest, slowest, simplest to hand assemble, lowest part count, and lowest-end Linux PC. The board is hand-soldered using wires, there is not even a requirement for a printed circuit board."

AwesomeCronk · 2018-05-21 23:10

I was thinking of making a PC with 8+ cores(mine only has 2), and, hopefully, thus speed up processes.

potatohead · 2018-05-22 00:59

Oh this isn't really going to get you anywhere fast.

You need to get a multi-core PC is what you need to do and you may be able to get a CPU upgrade to do it but this isn't your CPU.

AwesomeCronk · 2018-05-22 02:24

Okaay, then. @cgracey , anything to say about this?

Mike Green · 2018-05-22 03:06

"I heard from my computer teacher today, that Windows 10 adapts to fit the requirements of almost any C-speaking processor"... Theoretically true, but practically speaking, it's garbage. Neither the P1 nor the P2 have any kind of virtual memory support or built-in floating point. The floating point can be emulated in software at a significant speed penalty. Neither memory mapping nor protection exists and is used heavily in most operating system kernels. The P1 doesn't even have fixed point multiplication or division.

That said, there are several 8080/Z80 emulators for the P1 that run CP/M off an SD card at pretty much "real" 8080 speeds and the same could be done even better for the P2.

Heater. · 2018-05-22 08:37

There is no such thing as a C-speaking processor.

Windows does not adapt to fit the requirements of anything. It can perhaps be adapted and re-compiled, by Microsoft, for different processor architectures and platforms.

We do not have access to the source code of Windows so we cannot adapt it to anything.

Even if we could the result would be horribly slow.

David Betz · 2018-05-22 11:01

Heater. wrote: »

There is no such thing as a C-speaking processor.

I interpreted that to mean any processor for which a C compiler is available. However, I suspect that isn't the only requirement. I'm sure a memory management unit is also necessary as well as sufficient address space unless you go the emulator route like was done with the AVR implementation of Linux.

Heater. · 2018-05-22 11:45

David,

Well, yeah. Sorry, I was just being fussy.

Certainly an MMU would help. Plus a ton of memory other peripheral hardware support.

Oh, and we would need the source code...

David Betz · 2018-05-22 11:59

Heater. wrote: »

Oh, and we would need the source code...

Oh, that little detail. :-)
Maybe we'd better stick with Linux!

samuell · 2018-05-22 14:56

I would like to see Linux running on P2, though I really think that it will maybe run a stripped version. That would be definitely a milestone!

Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço

Mike Green · 2018-05-22 15:29

@samuell,
That depends on how you define your "stripped version". There are already several "unix-like" systems for the P1, but these are command-line based (no GUI) with a simple file system on SD card and a few simple I/O drivers. A lot of functionality is provided using small utility programs. Clearly the same could be provided on the P2 with a significant increase in functionality ... still text-based, but closer to a Linux text-based system.

AwesomeCronk · 2018-05-22 22:36

Hmm, so to do this, I would have to pay some team at Microsoft thousands of dollars to adapt the Windows 10 software for a P2, and then submit to them a "working" PC built around the P2. Cool! Might as well just buy a rapid speed desktop.

David Betz · 2018-05-22 22:54

AwesomeCronk wrote: »

Hmm, so to do this, I would have to pay some team at Microsoft thousands of dollars to adapt the Windows 10 software for a P2, and then submit to them a "working" PC built around the P2. Cool! Might as well just buy a rapid speed desktop.

More like many millions of dollars.

potatohead · 2018-05-23 00:52

Cool! Might as well just buy a rapid speed desktop.

Correct.

samuell · 2018-05-23 13:26

Well, IMHO, don't bother with Windows 10. You might not have enough space to run a GUI, anyway. But that's just my opinion.

Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço

MIchael_Michalski · 2018-05-25 03:45

Processors like the propeller are made for controlling things rather than use as a general purpose computer. There is some overlap,and its not exactly uncommon to use one one sort of processor in the other application. However, Windows 10 would not be a good fit, even if you had the source code to try to port it. Linux MIGHT be a better place to start, but honestly, most of the APIs that are provided by Windows or Linux are simply not needed. In fact, take a look at any Linux or Windows programs. They are HUGE compared to programs that run on the P1 (or P2). Space is not a particular issue with the processors that typically run Linux or Windows. In fact, even when it is (for example for OpenWrt, the embedded Linux for routers) "small" does not mean the same thing. A single module from OpenWrt can take more space than the entire memory foot print of a propeller. Having a whole is hanging around when all your doing is blinking lights and turning motors on and off just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You want to compile your code with ONLY the code you need to implement whatever your doing.

AwesomeCronk · 2018-05-25 15:31

Ok, then.

Cluso99 · 2018-05-25 20:22

IMHO this thread should be locked and sunk. Nothing serious here.

AwesomeCronk · 2018-05-25 23:26

I don't know what is not serious, I had an idea to run windows 10 on the P2, that's all. I can mark it as answered(if I can figure out how) and forget it, if you want.