Full-chip integration at On Semi

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  • Cluso99 wrote: »
    Of course you can boot SD from the Monitor, which can be entered from serial like TAQOZ. It's the "R"un command.

    I'm sure though that at the rime I said that, that you hadn't implemented the R command yet.
    Now you have :)

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  • Yes, I am seeing some old posts show up on the forum even though I've read them before.
    My Prop boards: P8XBlade2, RamBlade, CpuBlade, TriBlade
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  • Nice to see this going. So, the pitch will be 0.5mm? As for the nomenclature of the part number, I don't understand. Is there any post where I can see what the numbers mean?

    I'm willing to buy one or two parts as soon as P2 is released. It the C compiler is ready, I can start programming right away!

    Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço
  • Hello Samuell, very unlikely you will be able to buy a P2, as I just read in a news stream: the US and China decided do reduce a so called trade deficit by shipping more products from the US to China. It is not by accident, that the ongoing negotiations coincide with the design freeze of the P2, because only the advent of the P2 makes it possible! Unluckily the community will suffer from a lack in available chips. But there is a silver light at the horizon: as China is a master of selling at very competitive prices, they will float the world market with subsidized P2s!
    no reason to reason if you feel feelings: in love with the propeller

    How-2-TACHYON
  • samuellsamuell Posts: 409
    edited 2018-05-21 - 03:37:24
    Hi ErNa,

    What does China have to do with this? I live in Portugal, so I couldn't care less about China. I really hope that you are joking, because what you said sounds like a joke to me.

    Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço
  • It's a jest.

    USA and China agree to balance trade by shipping more product from the USA to China.

    The USA has no products that China wants.

    Except, presumably, the P2.

    Ergo, there will be no P2 for us.



  • I thought so. Anyway, China does not want products from any other country, except when trying to copy. That would be the case of the Port wine, except, though luck, Port must come from Oporto, Portugal. If it comes from anywhere else, it is not Port. It will be easy to spot that fake.

    On other matter, where I can see the chip specs and the package dimensions? The information seems to be scattered across the forums and I've seen several tentative specs. Thus, I can't be sure. The nomenclature is also confuse to me.

    Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço
  • all-clear. Looks as if it was fake news, or just a misinterpretation. p2 was the code name for peanuts and soyapeans. I remember the long forgotten days of the famous morgentau plan, where the idea was to de-industrialize Germany and convert the country to farm land. Would have been good news to the farmer, but we had forgotten to bring them back from the eastern front. So the plan vanished in a drawer. Some person must have found this plan by accident, but didn't realize the context, so now it looks like China will produce high tec and us will export crops. And IP will not be an issue, as the high tec products will be bought from us, mean, we will own IP. Such simple for a simple symbol.
    no reason to reason if you feel feelings: in love with the propeller

    How-2-TACHYON
  • ErNa,
    ...it looks like China will produce high tec and us will export crops.
    Bingo. Spot on.

    There are 7 billion people on this planet. Or more.

    If they like Port wine they don't care where it comes from. Same for Champaign, whisky etc. If it looks good and tastes good then that is good enough.

    This kind of intellectual property / trade mark strategy is a loser in the end.

    Same goes for microchips from Silicon Valley or movies from Hollywood. (Not that Silicon Valley actually makes any silicon chips now a days)

    At the end of the day you need real stuff to trade.

    And so, I was amazed to hear on my tour of California that one of the biggest exports they have is rice. Sold to China.

    That is the future of the USA and perhaps Europe. Peasant farmers for the Asian economies.

  • Heater. wrote: »
    That is the future of the USA and perhaps Europe. Peasant farmers for the Asian economies.
    Hmmm... It does seem to be going in that direction doesn't it? Will the P2 be fabricated in the USA?

  • David,
    Will the P2 be fabricated in the USA?
    Is that a serious question?

    Nobody makes silicon chips in the western world today.

    Well, a few still, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabrication_plants



  • Heater. wrote: »
    David,
    Will the P2 be fabricated in the USA?
    Is that a serious question?

    Nobody makes silicon chips in the western world today.

    Well, a few still, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabrication_plants


    Yes, I know there are still a few. I was wondering if On Semi was one of them.

  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,213
    edited 2018-05-21 - 21:17:41
    Hmm...Searching for "On Semi" in the list I linked to above shows that it is pretty unlikely that the P2 will be made in the USA.

  • Heater,
    On Semiconductor has 5 of their 9 plants in the USA. One of them is in Oregon, USA, and that is where I believe the P2 will be made. I recall Ken or Chip mentioning this Oregon plant in the past.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 22,442
    edited 2018-05-21 - 21:57:26
    Roy Eltham wrote:
    On Semiconductor has 5 of their 9 plants in the USA. One of them is in Oregon, USA, and that is where I believe the P2 will be made. I recall Ken or Chip mentioning this Oregon plant in the past.
    ... only to be sent offshore for packaging, most likely.

    -Phil
    “Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
  • It's only huge digital ASIC runs that are made in China. I think most all analog is made in US. A lot of old process micros too. For instance, if memory serves me correctly, most PIC micros are made in US
    I am the Master, and technology my slave.
  • Well, amazing. I happy to be corrected.

  • Chip has described the fields that are of responsibility of OnSemi's, at the bottom line of the marking.

    The A and CCCCC fields will told where it comes from.

    https://forums.parallax.com/discussion/comment/1437529/#Comment_1437529
  • Phil,
    I doubt that. I could be wrong, but it seems like the shipping/tariff situation would make that cost prohibitive. Even if the packaging costs are significantly lower off-shore, the shipping/tariff costs would dwarf that difference.
  • The wafers are going to be fab'd by OnSemi in Gresham, Oregon. They will be sent to Amkor in Asia to be tested and packaged.
  • jmgjmg Posts: 13,932
    edited 2018-05-21 - 22:26:17
    Roy Eltham wrote: »
    Phil,
    I doubt that. I could be wrong, but it seems like the shipping/tariff situation would make that cost prohibitive. Even if the packaging costs are significantly lower off-shore, the shipping/tariff costs would dwarf that difference.

    Moving stuff around for package and test is very common.
    * The customs dollars here are only for packages, so that's very low (silicon ownership is not transferred).
    * Shipping is low, relative to the total value of the products.

    One example, from one of the larger players...
    https://www.geek.com/chips/intel-opens-chip-testing-facility-bigger-than-five-football-fields-in-vietnam-1292346/
  • It's not only about money, it's also owed experience and craftsmanship. There is no question: we live in a connected world and ever did. Remember the silk road, or the Inka trails, .... Cotton comes from one place, is spun in another, woven in a third, tailored in a Tachyon, sewed in a fifth, consumed in a sixth, collected in a sixth (underworld), recycled in a seventh, etc etc. So all bring together their skills.
    no reason to reason if you feel feelings: in love with the propeller

    How-2-TACHYON
  • Bob Lawrence (VE1RLL)Bob Lawrence (VE1RLL) Posts: 1,546
    edited 2018-05-21 - 22:58:02
    cgracey wrote: »
    The wafers are going to be fab'd by OnSemi in Gresham, Oregon. They will be sent to Amkor in Asia to be tested and packaged.

    ON Semiconductor

    Gresham, Oregon
    Manufacturing Facility
    An advanced automated wafer fab with 100k square feet of clean room space, located on an 83 acre site with over 500,000 square feet of building space.


    Fab: 8-inch

    Production: 0.11 µm to 0.5 µm Digital and Analog CMOS, BCD, EEPROM, Trench PowerFET’s, and Advanced Integrated Passives

    Acquired: Purchased from LSI in 2006

    Certifications:
    - AS 9100 Rev. B
    - C-TPAT
    - ISO 14001:2004
    - ISO 9001:2008
    - ISO / TS 16949:2009
    - Trusted Foundry Accreditation
    - Green Partner Certification

    Website:
    http://www.onsemi.com/
    ================================================


    Investor Overview
    Amkor Technology, Inc. is one of the world’s largest providers of outsourced semiconductor packaging and test services. Founded in 1968, Amkor pioneered the outsourcing of IC packaging and test, and is now a strategic manufacturing partner for more than 250 of the world’s leading semiconductor companies, foundries and electronics OEMs. Amkor’s operational base includes production facilities, product development centers, and sales and support offices located in key electronics manufacturing regions in Asia, Europe and the USA.

    https://amkor.com/
    =========================================================
    Design Center
    Leaders in Next Generation Package Design

    https://c44f5d406df450f4a66b-1b94a87d576253d9446df0a9ca62e142.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/2018/02/Design_Center_Brochure.pdf
  • I highly recommend “Travels of a T-shirt in the Global Economy “.
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  • Phil,
    Okay, so I was wrong, they are going off-shore for packaging. I should not have doubted you Phil! :smile:
  • Roy Eltham wrote: »
    Phil,
    Okay, so I was wrong, they are going off-shore for packaging. I should not have doubted you Phil! :smile:

    Is there such thing as an on-shore packaging company?

    Ken Gracey
  • Hi Ken

    As usual, I'm having a little doubt, trying to understand certain subtleties of the english language, thus the following question:

    When you said "Is there such thing as an on-shore packaging company?", does it means you're in doubt if there are any companies, actualy running IC testing, dicing and packaging in USA?

    If that was the case, then there is at least Corwil Technology Corporation (now part of Integra Technologies), in Milpitas, CA.

    corwil.com/
  • cgracey wrote: »
    The wafers are going to be fab'd by OnSemi in Gresham, Oregon. They will be sent to Amkor in Asia to be tested and packaged.

    Directly in my neighborhood. I pass by the company here in Longtan, Taiwan, twice a day. Why not make the chips at TMSC a little bit south of me?
    --
    Reinhardt
  • Ken Gracey wrote:
    Is there such thing as an on-shore packaging company?
    Amazon. :)

    -Phil
    “Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
  • Stupid question, and I may be way off base here- Why not do dicing, packaging and testing in house?

    Is it unrealistic to think this is easily withinin the realm of the various skilled people at Parallax? I mean, couldn't this equipment easily be custom built if you had to? I understand none of this is cleanroom stuff. Easier than a tortilla machine. Has this ever been considered? Or is it possible, yet just not cost effective?

    I ask because I am trying to learn about this stuff.
    I am the Master, and technology my slave.
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