LED light bulbs have come of age

MikeDYurMikeDYur Posts: 1,987
Picked up four of them for less than $2.
If they last less than nine years, I won't remember. But that is less cost, than any incandescent I can remember.

EDIT: These new design processes, flat panel and an LED filament, are new tech to cut away dependency's from our past.

P.S. sorry for the sideways pic.
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  • 40 Comments sorted by Date Added Votes
  • They have indeed come of age. I got them for $1.96 CDN each. Before tax of course.
    In science there is no authority. There is only experiment.
    Life is unpredictable. Eat dessert first.
  • What I would like to see is some good prices on decent lumens - like 100W equivalent, not 60W or less, or "fudged numbers" on the lumens they claim is equivalent wattage. But yes, I am using them both at the office and home now, but next round of bulbs is going to be higher output, that's for sure!
  • 9 years... pondering the reality- is that per bulb or the combined total on that 4 pack :lol:
  • TorTor Posts: 1,717
    I think they still count the lifetime as from when you start using it until it fails, with maybe 3 hours per day usage, but still counting 24 hours per day. Like the 8000 hours early bulb I bought.. it said in tiny letters "3 hours per day" or some such on the package, and indeed it lasted just a month. So the 25000 hours may still just give you ~3000 hours, which is decent, compared to traditional light bulbs, but at least the traditional light bulbs had honest lifetimes on the package: If it said 2500 hours, that was meant to be 2500 hours.
  • MikeDYurMikeDYur Posts: 1,987
    edited March 8 Vote Up0Vote Down
    Yup it's in the fine print, based on three hours a day usage. Winter time will cut that life expectancy in half.


    Yesterday was the first time I bought an LED bulb for the house in five years. The last time, I made a sizable purchase when household LED were just a small section in the incandescent light bulb isle.

    I had bought about three different sizes. And the others didn't last but a week, slowly turning black and burning out all together. Burned and never tried to get satisfaction on that deal.

    Since then we have been using CFs, but they are not very good in cold conditions. And they last longer if left on or off, switching is what shortens their life. Not crazy about the drop of Mercury in each bulb either.

    But walking down the bulb isle yesterday, it now is mostly LED bulbs, and you would be hard pressed to find an incandescent or compact fluorescent. Every conceivable wattage and base. And the prices are reasonable too.

    BTW: Some of the best bulbs I ever had, were incandescent's used in traffic lights, they seem to last for ever, but I don't have any examples today, so I guess they don't.

    Question: I have one CFL that is dimmable, just how does that work? Voltage, current or pulsed. Forget it, thinking about the dimmer control itself, I can understand how.

    Never noticed if they had dimmable LED's, bet that would take a circuit to accomplish.

    And why does the manufacturer feel the need to use glass in the outer envelope. Could it be a possible shortening of the bulbs life expectancy?
    2048 x 1152 - 600K
  • ercoerco Posts: 18,077
    I still see plenty of incandescents at dollar stores. Their last hurrah.

    IIRC when the bulb ban came, many incandescent were rebadged as heating spheres as a loophole. Tomayto, tomahto.
    "When you make a thing, a thing that is new, it is so complicated making it that it is bound to be ugly. But those that make it after you, they don’t have to worry about making it. And they can make it pretty, and so everybody can like it when others make it after you."

    - Pablo Picasso
  • MikeDYur: "Never noticed if they had dimmable LED's, bet that would take a circuit to accomplish."
    At home Depot and Lowes I find many dimmable LED's available. But do some product research and read customer reviews because there are quite a few out there that make audible noise when being dimmed. After doing my research I was able to zero in on a particular Philips model that remains quiet as a church mouse throughout it's range. I'm still using the original dimmer from over ten years ago. Learned that the worst offender was also a Philips brand, the one that looks like a flattened disc with the actual LED elements in an arc around the disc on a standard size lamp base.
    I have almost completed converting my entire house over to LED and my electric bill has come down. (I have my daughter and her two teenage boys living with us and like teenagers everywhere, once a light has been turned on it remains that way until someone else, usually me, turns them off.)
    Florida, between St. Petersburg and the Gulf of Mexico

    Do not look directly into laser with remaining good eye...
  • MikeDYurMikeDYur Posts: 1,987
    edited March 8 Vote Up0Vote Down
    Hal Albach wrote: »
    I have almost completed converting my entire house over to LED and my electric bill has come down. (I have my daughter and her two teenage boys living with us and like teenagers everywhere, once a light has been turned on it remains that way until someone else, usually me, turns them off.)

    Philips has been in the light bulb business like forever, I think, never payed that much attention to light bulbs as a kid. That's great on your conversion to LED, I should get some more while I'm at it.

    I shouldn't be telling you this Hal, but if it isn't a kid leaving a light on in the room they just left, it's my wife.

    Mike Y.
  • I have a CREE "450 LUMENS" bulb that consistently needs to be turned on-off-on to light up. Had it for a year or more; gets used maybe 4-5 hours per day. The issue follows the bulb in any socket; it is quite consistent. Can't think for the life of me what is going on inside to cause that behavior.
    Re-inventing the wheel is not a waste of time if, when you are done, you understand why it is round.
    Cool, CA, USA 95614
  • MikeDYurMikeDYur Posts: 1,987
    edited March 10 Vote Up0Vote Down
    have a CREE "450 LUMENS" bulb that consistently needs to be turned on-off-on to light up.

    Sounds like an X-10 device, you can switch the relay from a remote wired main's switch.

    These things are made to exist hopefully in a WCS of our outdoor environment.

    Manufacturers make it awful tough to service something like this,.mostly beyond salvaging some parts. Don't think they want you to be resourcive.
  • pjvpjv Posts: 1,887
    How about this deal....

    I was recently at Costco in Maui, and they were selling 10 packs of 100 watt equivalents for $2.99 a pack.

    That's 29.9 cents a piece!!!

    Unfortunately my suitcase was already full, so had to pass it up. But if everyone wanted some, I'd be willing to go back for a bulk purchase !!

    Cheers,

    Peter (pjv)


  • My first LED died this month. It was on non stop as porch light. Was a modest 5W bulb. Rated 20 years normal use, lasted 8 going non stop.

    Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball! @opengeekorg ---> Be Excellent To One Another SKYPE = acuity_doug
    Parallax colors simplified: http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?123709-Commented-Graphics_Demo.spin<br>
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 19,255
    edited March 10 Vote Up0Vote Down
    potatohead,

    "My first LED died this month...."

    Oh my God. I want to cry.

    My first LED was in 1970. I remember her well. I was just a kid. She was new and bright and red. Nobody had ever seen such a thing.

    If I knew where she was now I'm sure I would find her shining brightly still.

    Slap...

    Oh you mean these new fangled LED bulbs?

    Is it so that the US is some years behind Europe in the banning of good old fashioned tungsten filament lamps?

    For some years now you could only by CFL around here. They were horrible.

    Thank God new LED technology brings us nice lights again.





  • davidsaundersdavidsaunders Posts: 1,556
    edited March 10 Vote Up0Vote Down
    Still seems a waste of power to me, as to power an LED you need DC, so you plug into an AC socket there is some loss in rectifying the current, and likely stepping it down to something the LED can handle.

    This is why my LED lighting is powered directly off of my 12 volt system, no conversion loss.
    PASM The simplest programming language for the propeller.
    Low Power for everything, max average whole house draw for a day is 2.4KW/hour total:
    That is 400 watts per hour to produce for the 6 good power hours (minimum in late December/early January) from solar, now how to use less.
  • Those losses are minor league per luman, compared to incandescent.
    Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball! @opengeekorg ---> Be Excellent To One Another SKYPE = acuity_doug
    Parallax colors simplified: http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?123709-Commented-Graphics_Demo.spin<br>
  • Now a days we can do voltage conversions at 80 or 90 percent efficiency. Or whatever the figure is.

    All in all a lot more efficient than creating heat in good old filament lamps.

    Well, except I worry about all the power taken to run those semiconductor plants and such...
  • My LED lighting is powered directly off of my 12 volt system, no conversion loss.

    Where's your 12V power coming from such that you don't have the AC->DC conversion loss? Solar-powered is the only (significant) source I can think of off the top of my head that isn't AC.
    David
    PropWare: C++ HAL (Hardware Abstraction Layer) for PropGCC; Robust build system using CMake; Integrated Simple Library, libpropeller, and libPropelleruino (Arduino port); Instructions for Eclipse and JetBrain's CLion; Example projects; Doxygen documentation
  • Still seems a waste of power to me, as to power an LED you need DC, so you plug into an AC socket there is some loss in rectifying the current, and likely stepping it down to something the LED can handle.

    This is why my LED lighting is powered directly off of my 12 volt system, no conversion loss.

    The current to the led has to be controlled at any voltage so there are comparable losses no matter the voltage. CFL's and LEDs produce 6 to 10 times the light per watt compared to an incandescent bulbs and last about 10 times longer on average.
    In science there is no authority. There is only experiment.
    Life is unpredictable. Eat dessert first.
  • davidsaundersdavidsaunders Posts: 1,556
    edited March 10 Vote Up0Vote Down
    potatohead wrote: »
    Those losses are minor league per luman, compared to incandescent.
    Heater. wrote: »
    Now a days we can do voltage conversions at 80 or 90 percent efficiency. Or whatever the figure is.

    All in all a lot more efficient than creating heat in good old filament lamps.

    Well, except I worry about all the power taken to run those semiconductor plants and such...
    It is true that it is a lot more effecient than incandescent. Though I have been using LED's for light since long before the craze of Compact Florescent bulbs, as I am running off of 12 volts it has always made more sense to me to use LED's as they take a lot less power and do not require conversion to AC to run.

    DavidZemon wrote: »
    My LED lighting is powered directly off of my 12 volt system, no conversion loss.

    Where's your 12V power coming from such that you don't have the AC->DC conversion loss? Solar-powered is the only (significant) source I can think of off the top of my head that isn't AC.
    Well my power comes from a combination of solar panels and wind generators, with storage banks for making it through the low to no wind nights (most nights here). For me running AC requires conversion.

    Also thank you, as a lot of what I do and talk about revolves around saving power for my system I edited my signature to reflect this and reduce the redundant missunderstandings.
    PASM The simplest programming language for the propeller.
    Low Power for everything, max average whole house draw for a day is 2.4KW/hour total:
    That is 400 watts per hour to produce for the 6 good power hours (minimum in late December/early January) from solar, now how to use less.
  • MikeDYurMikeDYur Posts: 1,987
    edited March 11 Vote Up0Vote Down
    davidsaunders wrote:
    as I am running off of 12 volts it has always made more sense to me to use LED's as they take a lot less power and do not require conversion to AC to run.


    I have been using a transformered 12VDC @10A power supply, to operate various items in the house 24/7 for 15 years. All because switching power supplies were not that dependable back then. It is time to change that RS unit out, and get something a little more eco friendly. Battery backup takes a big hit when going through a transformer. Time to re-think and re-tool.

    pjv wrote: »
    How about this deal....

    That's 29.9 cents a piece!!!

    Unfortunately my suitcase was already full, so had to pass it up. But if everyone wanted some, I'd be willing to go back for a bulk purchase !!

    Cheers,

    Peter (pjv)




    If this looks promising, I will gladly help, and lend the use of a couple of suitcases to help the cause. But air travel takes me a couple of weeks to recuperate. So we do have time to pack those light bulbs carefully.
  • Over a year ago, I changed over most of my house to LED. The ones in the bedroom had to stay incandescent because of the old X10 remote dimmer I still have. LED bulbs don't work with older dimmers that bleed current. The LED nightlight plugged in to the X10 base station is always on, regardless if it's "on". The X10 outlet bleeds enough current to shine the LED at about 50% brightness when "off".

    The slide dimmer in my daughter's room is also an issue. At full dim, the LEDs bulbs were about 70% brightness, so the dimmer became pointless. So, rather than dumping the $40 slide dimmer, I put incandescent back in (I have plenty now from the places where LEDs worked fine)

    Above my wife's craft desk, I splurged and bought 2 GE Reveal Flood lamps for the recessed cans. It is amazing how the colors look under those versus ANY other light. Everything pops.

    The porch lights are all LED and run from a timer. One is green to support our troops, but is still pretty bright.

    One thing I learned from all of this: Don't buy cheap LED bulbs. My first LED bulbs were the cheapest name brand I could buy. Lasted about 3 months. When I bought a huge pack of GE bulbs that were discounted through a SMUD program (my electric company) but still far from the cheapest, I have been very happy.

    On my wishlist, is this LED garage light made by BigAssFans (yes, that's their name):
    566610ac-61fa-4f0b-9db5-67de8c906e37_1000.jpg
    Andrew Williams
    WBA Consulting
  • MikeDYur wrote: »
    davidsaunders wrote:
    as I am running off of 12 volts it has always made more sense to me to use LED's as they take a lot less power and do not require conversion to AC to run.


    I have been using a transformered 12VDC @10A power supply, to operate various items in the house 24/7 for 15 years. All because switching power supplies were not that dependable back then. It is time to change that RS unit out, and get something a little more eco friendly. Battery backup takes a big hit when going through a transformer. Time to re-think and re-tool.

    Not sure I am seeing where you are coming from. I understand you say you are using a transformer, though beyond that. My source is 12 volt, so no transformer involved. In fact I am doing everything I can to reduce any kind of conversion losses. Not sure what the most reliable/efficient methods are yet, still a lot of experimenting to do.

    And I have good reliable switching power supplies that were made in the mid 1980's, so I am not sure about them not being available 15 years ago?
    PASM The simplest programming language for the propeller.
    Low Power for everything, max average whole house draw for a day is 2.4KW/hour total:
    That is 400 watts per hour to produce for the 6 good power hours (minimum in late December/early January) from solar, now how to use less.
  • The incandescent bulbs where great for watt loading and testing SCR's so they have a load to switch
  • I have a CREE "450 LUMENS" bulb that consistently needs to be turned on-off-on to light up. Had it for a year or more; gets used maybe 4-5 hours per day. The issue follows the bulb in any socket; it is quite consistent. Can't think for the life of me what is going on inside to cause that behavior.

    I've had a few of my Cree bulbs fail. Sometimes flipping the switch a few times would work, other times I would hit them with a broom. Eventually they would just quit for good.

    I took one apart to see what was going on. The board that the leds are soldered to is folded around a central core that acts as a heatsink. The only thing holding the board to the central core is the pressure resulting from sliding it onto the core. In other words, the quality of folding it into the cylindrical shape determines how well and snug it fits the core. There was no thermal paste or goo of any kind to help transfer heat. Several of the leds had fallen off and a few more would fall off when touched.

    My opinion is that a simple clip that applies even pressure around the led board would greatly improve heat transfer to the heatsink and vastly increase service life. If it didn't require breaking the glass bulb to access the inside I would probably wrap a few turns of thread around the board to hold it snug to the core.
  • >That is 400 watts per hour to produce for the 6 good power >hours (minimum in late December/early January) from solar, >now how to use less.

    Well, that would be if your batteries had no losses when being charged, which is usually around 30%, IIRC. Just being nit picky. :-) I live off grid too and your consumption figure isn't too far off mine, but I don't count power used when the sun is shining. I have to be honest that I have room left for improvement but since the power is free...
  • When comparing on-grid vs off-grid costs, do the off-gridders also take into account their front end and operating costs, ie. amortized the cost of hardware and upkeep over the useful life of the hardware? I would think there would be several hidden costs involved such as the time and labor required to clean the panels, clean and lubricate windmill gear trains, cleaning and maintaining battery connections, and probably other activities as well. These activities add to the cost since time and labor and consumable materials are involved. How long do the deep-discharge batteries last, several years? When they are exhausted, they must be properly disposed of - more additional costs involved in time and transportation. Though I am not currently involved with off-grid operations I tend to believe that even with all the extra hidden costs factored in, it is probably still a win-win situation. I would just like to see a more comprehensive comparison.
    Florida, between St. Petersburg and the Gulf of Mexico

    Do not look directly into laser with remaining good eye...
  • davidsaundersdavidsaunders Posts: 1,556
    edited March 12 Vote Up0Vote Down
    Jonathan wrote: »
    >That is 400 watts per hour to produce for the 6 good power >hours (minimum in late December/early January) from solar, >now how to use less.

    Well, that would be if your batteries had no losses when being charged, which is usually around 30%, IIRC. Just being nit picky. :-) I live off grid too and your consumption figure isn't too far off mine, but I don't count power used when the sun is shining. I have to be honest that I have room left for improvement but since the power is free...

    99% of my usage is direct (without storage usage) during daylight/windy hours. During night/no wind I use much much less (only a couple Raspberry Pi and some small LED's).

    Also my figure includes the storage charging.
    PASM The simplest programming language for the propeller.
    Low Power for everything, max average whole house draw for a day is 2.4KW/hour total:
    That is 400 watts per hour to produce for the 6 good power hours (minimum in late December/early January) from solar, now how to use less.
  • Not sure I am seeing where you are coming from. I understand you say you are using a transformer, though beyond that. My source is 12 volt, so no transformer involved. In fact I am doing everything I can to reduce any kind of conversion losses. Not sure what the most reliable/efficient methods are yet, still a lot of experimenting to do.

    And I have good reliable switching power supplies that were made in the mid 1980's, so I am not sure about them not being available 15 years ago?




    I mean that: I come off of mains voltage to supply the house with 12VDC. Switching power supplies just wasn't thought of as dependable long term high demand power source. Transformers do it with Induction, and somtimes are their own heatsink. I always liked a transformer between me(my stuff) and mains.
    2048 x 1152 - 719K
  • MikeDYurMikeDYur Posts: 1,987
    edited March 13 Vote Up0Vote Down
    MikeDYur wrote: »
    Not sure I am seeing where you are coming from. I understand you say you are using a transformer, though beyond that. My source is 12 volt, so no transformer involved. In fact I am doing everything I can to reduce any kind of conversion losses. Not sure what the most reliable/efficient methods are yet, still a lot of experimenting to do.

    And I have good reliable switching power supplies that were made in the mid 1980's, so I am not sure about them not being available 15 years ago?




    I mean that: I come off of mains voltage to supply the house with 12VDC. Switching power supplies just wasn't thought of as dependable long term high demand power source. Transformers do it with Induction, and somtimes are their own heatsink. I always liked a transformer between me(my stuff) and mains.

    @davidsaunders, are you totally off grid 100 percent? Disconnected. You know I remember not being around EMF's for over two weeks, and there is a relaxing feeling that comes over you. With all the frequency's flying around these days, not sure where you would go to find that anymore..
  • MikeDYur wrote: »
    Not sure I am seeing where you are coming from. I understand you say you are using a transformer, though beyond that. My source is 12 volt, so no transformer involved. In fact I am doing everything I can to reduce any kind of conversion losses. Not sure what the most reliable/efficient methods are yet, still a lot of experimenting to do.

    And I have good reliable switching power supplies that were made in the mid 1980's, so I am not sure about them not being available 15 years ago?

    @davidsaunders, are you totally off grid 100 percent? Disconnected. You know I remember not being around EMF's for over two weeks, and there is a relaxing feeling that comes over you. With all the frequency's flying around these days, not sure where you would go to find that anymore..

    100% off grid, and yes the reduction in EMF around does give a relaxing feeling. Though do to local law there is a mains line coming in, I am just paying the $15 per month for it and not using it at all (it goes into an empty breaker box).

    I am hoping the neighboring county does get us (they are trying to get this part of this county), as they do not have that dumb law. Then I will be able to even lose that unused mains source.
    PASM The simplest programming language for the propeller.
    Low Power for everything, max average whole house draw for a day is 2.4KW/hour total:
    That is 400 watts per hour to produce for the 6 good power hours (minimum in late December/early January) from solar, now how to use less.
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