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Series caps

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2000-05-04 22:56 in General Discussion
I think there is confusion about connecting caps in series. Yes, two 1F
caps in series = 1/2F...but so what? If you charge a single 1F cap with 1
amp for 1 sec, it will be charged to 1 volt. If you charge two series 1F
caps with 1 amp for 1 sec, you will measure 2 volts. The total charge
transferred is the same, (coulombs = amps x seconds), and the current is =
in a series circuit.

This means you could connect two 2.5 volt caps in series to achieve 5 volts.
In practice, they should be charged individually, because mismatch in
capacitance will result in one of the caps reaching full rated voltage first
if charged in series. Charging further would overvoltage the lower
capacitance unit. So charge them individually, then series them to run the
load. No loss of stored charged occurs when they are used in series.

A good analogy is that you do not lose battery amp-hour capacity by
connecting them in series.

Hope this helps,
Ray McArthur

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2000-05-04 20:56
    Ray,

    rjmca wrote:
    >
    > I think there is confusion about connecting caps in series. Yes, two 1F
    > caps in series = 1/2F...but so what? If you charge a single 1F cap with 1
    > amp for 1 sec, it will be charged to 1 volt. If you charge two series 1F
    > caps with 1 amp for 1 sec, you will measure 2 volts. The total charge
    > transferred is the same, (coulombs = amps x seconds), and the current is =
    > in a series circuit.

    This doesn't feel right. Caps are not batteries, there are charge issues
    involved because energy is being stored, not generated.

    > This means you could connect two 2.5 volt caps in series to achieve 5 volts.
    > In practice, they should be charged individually, because mismatch in
    > capacitance will result in one of the caps reaching full rated voltage first
    > if charged in series. Charging further would overvoltage the lower
    > capacitance unit. So charge them individually, then series them to run the
    > load. No loss of stored charged occurs when they are used in series.
    >
    > A good analogy is that you do not lose battery amp-hour capacity by
    > connecting them in series.

    Bad and confusing analogy actually. A battery generates its charge, the
    cap simply stores it. This topic makes me uncomfortable as there is something
    that I know I'm missing. Series caps will drop the capacitance (and storage
    capacity) by the formula Ct = 1/(1/C1 + 1/C2). That is the rule, I
    believe it,
    I've seen it in practice. This leads me to believe that putting caps in series
    to increase voltage will lose total energy. We are seeing charge
    transfer, it
    is not like two batteries in series whose total potential difference is actually
    greater. This charge transfer must be the source of the system total
    charge
    loss. I believe the total (-) charge on the one cap will be filled with the
    (+) charge holes no the other cap, result, loss of 1/2 of the charge.

    In short, will someone test this? My brain hurts.

    DLC

    > Hope this helps,
    > Ray McArthur

    --
    Dennis Clark http://www.verinet.com/~dlc
    dlc@v...
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2000-05-04 21:07
    Hi,

    Just to confuse the issue :-) There is a HV pulse circuit called a marx
    bank, in which capacitors are charged in parallel and discharged in series.
    If one charges N capacitors to V volts in parallel, one can get N x V volts
    out when the bank is discharged in series. Technique is used in pulsed
    lasers, pulsed x-rays, EMP weapons(!) etc. Acts kinda like a battery...

    -B

    At 01:56 PM 5/4/2000 -0600, you wrote:
    > Bad and confusing analogy actually. A battery generates its charge, the
    >cap simply stores it. This topic makes me uncomfortable as there is something
    >that I know I'm missing. Series caps will drop the capacitance (and storage
    >capacity) by the formula Ct = 1/(1/C1 + 1/C2). That is the rule, I
    >believe it,
    >I've seen it in practice. This leads me to believe that putting caps in
    >series
    >to increase voltage will lose total energy. We are seeing charge
    >transfer, it
    >is not like two batteries in series whose total potential difference is
    >actually
    >greater. This charge transfer must be the source of the system total
    >charge
    >loss. I believe the total (-) charge on the one cap will be filled with the
    >(+) charge holes no the other cap, result, loss of 1/2 of the charge.
    >
    > In short, will someone test this? My brain hurts.

    Bob Tilden rntilden@l...
    High Energy Physics Group
    Northwestern University
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2000-05-04 22:56
    Dennis:
    Rechargeable batteries are sometimes modeled as *huge* capacitors in high
    powered battery systems analysis. There is no charge lost, or energy lost
    when going to the series connection.

    Applicable formulas:

    Q (charge, coulombs) = current x time
    on a charged cap: Q=C x V
    cap energy=(C*V**2)/2 that's voltage squared.

    GE Labs in Schenectady, NY, at one time did lightning testing on power
    distribution components by charging caps in parallel, then discharging them
    in series; made a he.. of an explosion!

    Regards,
    Ray McArthur

    Original Message
    From: Dennis Clark <dlc@v...>
    To: <basicstamps@egroups.com>
    Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 3:56 PM
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Series caps


    > Ray,
    >
    > rjmca wrote:
    > >
    > > I think there is confusion about connecting caps in series. Yes, two 1F
    > > caps in series = 1/2F...but so what? If you charge a single 1F cap with
    1
    > > amp for 1 sec, it will be charged to 1 volt. If you charge two series
    1F
    > > caps with 1 amp for 1 sec, you will measure 2 volts. The total charge
    > > transferred is the same, (coulombs = amps x seconds), and the current is
    =
    > > in a series circuit.
    >
    > This doesn't feel right. Caps are not batteries, there are charge
    issues
    > involved because energy is being stored, not generated.
    >
    > > This means you could connect two 2.5 volt caps in series to achieve 5
    volts.
    > > In practice, they should be charged individually, because mismatch in
    > > capacitance will result in one of the caps reaching full rated voltage
    first
    > > if charged in series. Charging further would overvoltage the lower
    > > capacitance unit. So charge them individually, then series them to run
    the
    > > load. No loss of stored charged occurs when they are used in series.
    > >
    > > A good analogy is that you do not lose battery amp-hour capacity by
    > > connecting them in series.
    >
    > Bad and confusing analogy actually. A battery generates its charge, the
    > cap simply stores it. This topic makes me uncomfortable as there is
    something
    > that I know I'm missing. Series caps will drop the capacitance (and
    storage
    > capacity) by the formula Ct = 1/(1/C1 + 1/C2). That is the rule, I
    > believe it,
    > I've seen it in practice. This leads me to believe that putting caps in
    series
    > to increase voltage will lose total energy. We are seeing charge
    > transfer, it
    > is not like two batteries in series whose total potential difference is
    actually
    > greater. This charge transfer must be the source of the system total
    > charge
    > loss. I believe the total (-) charge on the one cap will be filled with
    the
    > (+) charge holes no the other cap, result, loss of 1/2 of the charge.
    >
    > In short, will someone test this? My brain hurts.
    >
    > DLC
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