Stamp2 for Macs
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Posts: 46,084
I hope Parallax doesn't have any objections, but I'm working on a Mac version
of the DOS "Stamp2" program. I have two questions that I hope someone can
answer:
1) Must the host port speed be a certain baud, or can I choose any baud?
2) Is the code written in the Stamp2 program converted in any way, before
being sent serially? I'm hoping I can just send out the text of one text
field to the Mac's serial port (Modem or printer, selectable from within my
program).
-Collin
To the people at Parallax: What copyright info. would you like me to put in
my program, showing your trademark on the BASIC Stamp and it's accessories?
of the DOS "Stamp2" program. I have two questions that I hope someone can
answer:
1) Must the host port speed be a certain baud, or can I choose any baud?
2) Is the code written in the Stamp2 program converted in any way, before
being sent serially? I'm hoping I can just send out the text of one text
field to the Mac's serial port (Modem or printer, selectable from within my
program).
-Collin
To the people at Parallax: What copyright info. would you like me to put in
my program, showing your trademark on the BASIC Stamp and it's accessories?
Comments
>I suggest offering up the posibility of an NDA. They'll be a lot more
receptive
>to your questions if they have a legal piece of paper stating that you
>won't share their secrets.
Oh, I forgot to mention I'm 15. What's an NDA, and would Parallax go for it?
Original Message
From: <macgyvr64@a...>
To: <basicstamps@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] [noparse][[/noparse]Semi-OT] Stamp2 for Macs
> Oh, I forgot to mention I'm 15. What's an NDA, and would Parallax go for
it?
NDA = Non-Disclosure Agreement. In laymans terms it means you
won't disclose any trade secrets etc,,.
Bruce
http://www.rentron.com
The communications is at 9600 baud (I think) and the basic is tokenized. If
you have access to a Windows machine, enter in some codes into the Stamp II
editor and bring up the memory map. Look near the top of the "detailed
eeprom map" and you'll see everthing is in hex. Also, it won't be obvious
which codes are which because they vary in bit size. In other words, it
isn't just $A1 is one command and $33 is another. One command might be %1011
and another might be %11110001.
Several of us have decoded the Stamp I. I have partially decoded some of the
Stamp II but not enough to fully understand it. Tracy Allen's site has an
example that programs one Stamp from another and I have done something
similar from VB. I know someone (can't remember who) has a "Stamps
Internals" book -- it may have more decoding but I don't know.
Overall, this will be a big project. The Stamp editor does several things:
1) Checks for correct syntax
2) Assigns variables (when you say X var word, it figures out where to put
X)
3) Parses math expressions into a simpler form
4) Converts the program into tokens
5) Downloads the tokens
So if you were hoping to just pipe the source code to the Stamp, I'm afraid
it isn't quite that simple.
As for the Mac, I know almost nothing about them, so I can't tell you
anything there.
Regards,
Al Williams
AWC
* 8 channels of PWM: http://www.al-williams.com/awce/pak5.htm
>
Original Message
> From: macgyvr64@a... [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=G7-VMQSQpL8M5ZDOVfqzwcUHccpDocG7jIHItKikXSTeVDJ7hut6khb2CKbmqb6k9Ovy8rfnfMTjK8Vw]macgyvr64@a...[/url
> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 10:54 PM
> To: basicstamps@egroups.com
> Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] [noparse][[/noparse]Semi-OT] Stamp2 for Macs
>
>
> I hope Parallax doesn't have any objections, but I'm working on a
> Mac version
> of the DOS "Stamp2" program. I have two questions that I hope
> someone can
> answer:
>
> 1) Must the host port speed be a certain baud, or can I choose any baud?
> 2) Is the code written in the Stamp2 program converted in any
> way, before
> being sent serially? I'm hoping I can just send out the text of one text
> field to the Mac's serial port (Modem or printer, selectable from
> within my
> program).
> -Collin
>
> To the people at Parallax: What copyright info. would you like
> me to put in
> my program, showing your trademark on the BASIC Stamp and it's
> accessories?
>
>
Rumor has it that they are considering a Mac Native compiler. From a
previously
very reliable source...
DLC
Dave Paton wrote:
>
> On 4/20/00 at 12:11 AM, macgyvr64@a... wrote:
>
> > Oh, I forgot to mention I'm 15. What's an NDA, and would Parallax go for
it?
>
> NDA = Non Disclosure Agrement. Basically it states that you'll keep a secret,
or bad stuff will happen. Parallax, if they're even remotely open to the idea of
Macside version of their softare, would probbly listen at the last.
>
> I suggest calling them and asking to talk to...um...
>
> I wonder if Chip still heads up the software. Anyone know who would be the
best one to talk to about this? The last tiem I was on the list Tom Moriani
(ap?) was still here.
>
> -dave
>
> It's hard to speak about something personal
> when someone just doesnt get it. - Beth, on humanity
>
> WCCR chief engineer, Professional student, geek at large, and I'm 6'4
> dave paton http://homepage.mac.com/dpaton dave at ieee dot org
--
Dennis Clark http://www.verinet.com/~dlc
dlc@v...
> To the people at Parallax: What copyright info. would you like me to put in
> my program, showing your trademark on the BASIC Stamp and it's accessories?
I suggest offering up the posibility of an NDA. They'll be a lot more receptive
to your questions if they have a legal piece of paper stating that you won't
share their secrets.
That said, I can't wait! Both my 7600 and my serial port equipped G4 want to
talk to my stamp 2.
wahoo!
-dave
It's hard to speak about something personal
when someone just doesnt get it. - Beth, on humanity
WCCR chief engineer, Professional student, geek at large, and I'm 6'4
dave paton http://homepage.mac.com/dpaton dave at ieee dot org
> Oh, I forgot to mention I'm 15. What's an NDA, and would Parallax go for it?
NDA = Non Disclosure Agrement. Basically it states that you'll keep a secret, or
bad stuff will happen. Parallax, if they're even remotely open to the idea of
Macside version of their softare, would probbly listen at the last.
I suggest calling them and asking to talk to...um...
I wonder if Chip still heads up the software. Anyone know who would be the best
one to talk to about this? The last tiem I was on the list Tom Moriani (ap?) was
still here.
-dave
It's hard to speak about something personal
when someone just doesnt get it. - Beth, on humanity
WCCR chief engineer, Professional student, geek at large, and I'm 6'4
dave paton http://homepage.mac.com/dpaton dave at ieee dot org
>I hope Parallax doesn't have any objections, but I'm working on a Mac
version
>of the DOS "Stamp2" program. I have two questions that I hope someone can
>answer:
>
>1) Must the host port speed be a certain baud, or can I choose any baud?
From what I understand that timing is critical, but more that that, I don't
know.
>2) Is the code written in the Stamp2 program converted in any way, before
>being sent serially? I'm hoping I can just send out the text of one text
>field to the Mac's serial port (Modem or printer, selectable from within my
>program).
What do you mean "converted in any way" ?
The Stamp Editor/Interpreter doesn't output the ASCII source code, if that's
what you are thinking. The output is p-Code (pseudo code) from what I
understand.
Bruce
>-Collin
>
>To the people at Parallax: What copyright info. would you like me to put in
>my program, showing your trademark on the BASIC Stamp and it's accessories?
>
>
>
>
>On 4/20/00 at 12:11 AM, macgyvr64@a... wrote:
>
>> Oh, I forgot to mention I'm 15. What's an NDA, and would Parallax go
for it?
>
>NDA = Non Disclosure Agrement. Basically it states that you'll keep a
secret, or bad stuff will happen. Parallax, if they're even remotely open
to the idea of Macside version of their softare, would probbly listen at
the last.
>
>I suggest calling them and asking to talk to...um...
>
>I wonder if Chip still heads up the software. Anyone know who would be the
best one to talk to about this? The last tiem I was on the list Tom Moriani
(ap?) was still here.
>
Dave -
Tom is LONG gone. A good intermediary might by John Barrrowman, but Chip
still
monitors this list (last I knew).
Bruce
>-dave
>
>It's hard to speak about something personal
> when someone just doesnt get it. - Beth, on humanity
>
>WCCR chief engineer, Professional student, geek at large, and I'm 6'4
>dave paton http://homepage.mac.com/dpaton dave at ieee dot org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Hi Collin,
>
>The communications is at 9600 baud (I think) and the basic is tokenized. If
>you have access to a Windows machine, enter in some codes into the Stamp II
>editor and bring up the memory map. Look near the top of the "detailed
>eeprom map" and you'll see everthing is in hex. Also, it won't be obvious
>which codes are which because they vary in bit size. In other words, it
>isn't just $A1 is one command and $33 is another. One command might be %1011
>and another might be %11110001.
>
>Several of us have decoded the Stamp I. I have partially decoded some of the
>Stamp II but not enough to fully understand it. Tracy Allen's site has an
>example that programs one Stamp from another and I have done something
>similar from VB. I know someone (can't remember who) has a "Stamps
>Internals" book -- it may have more decoding but I don't know.
>
Brian Forbes wrote the book.
>Overall, this will be a big project. The Stamp editor does several things:
>
>1) Checks for correct syntax
>2) Assigns variables (when you say X var word, it figures out where to put
>X)
>3) Parses math expressions into a simpler form
>4) Converts the program into tokens
>5) Downloads the tokens
>
>So if you were hoping to just pipe the source code to the Stamp, I'm afraid
>it isn't quite that simple.
>
>As for the Mac, I know almost nothing about them, so I can't tell you
>anything there.
>
>Regards,
>
>Al Williams
>AWC
>* 8 channels of PWM: http://www.al-williams.com/awce/pak5.htm
>
>
>>
Original Message
>> From: macgyvr64@a... [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=MbZ3P76_YSaFLXZzOeKZc9z5EIQLOmJazhyuTZil2hFk63MBnJfCFp8wAXAvBueZoFYN_eHKzw]macgyvr64@a...[/url
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 10:54 PM
>> To: basicstamps@egroups.com
>> Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] [noparse][[/noparse]Semi-OT] Stamp2 for Macs
>>
>>
>> I hope Parallax doesn't have any objections, but I'm working on a
>> Mac version
>> of the DOS "Stamp2" program. I have two questions that I hope
>> someone can
>> answer:
>>
>> 1) Must the host port speed be a certain baud, or can I choose any baud?
>> 2) Is the code written in the Stamp2 program converted in any
>> way, before
>> being sent serially? I'm hoping I can just send out the text of one text
>> field to the Mac's serial port (Modem or printer, selectable from
>> within my
>> program).
>> -Collin
>>
>> To the people at Parallax: What copyright info. would you like
>> me to put in
>> my program, showing your trademark on the BASIC Stamp and it's
>> accessories?
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
You wrote
>That said, I can't wait! Both my 7600 and my serial port equipped G4 want
>to talk to my stamp 2.
>
Have you tried any PC emulators?
I had no luck with VirtualPC or SoftWindows but have my G3 (beige)
working with SoftPC. SoftPC only recognises the 'real' serial ports so a
USB to serial or serial card won't work hence the G4 or blue G3 won't
work with Stamp2 via an emulator. SoftPC with your 7600 should be fine.
Jim
There are two problems with the current versions of RealPC/Softwindows vis
a vis STAMP2.EXE and STAMP2W.EXE. I spent time one day with an
oscilloscope and a sniffer and a Stamp emulator to get to the bottom of the
problem.
First off, the RealPC does not generate the signals that are necessary to
throw the BS2 into programming mode. Absent are the reset signal that
normally comes out on the DTR line (DB9 pin 4 or Mac "handshake"), and the
0.1 second BREAK condition on the TX line (DB9 pin 2). So the Stamp does
not go into programming mode. However, the emulator does generate a runt
pulse on the TX line at the beginning of what would be the BREAK signal,
and it does generate the first ascii character that follows the BREAK ("B"
for the BS2, "X" for the BS2SX). By adding a few gates and resistors &
capacitors I was able to use the runt pulse on TX to recreate the necessary
break condition and the reset signal. Viola', the stamp then does enter
programming mode in response to the RUN command from the PC emulator, and
dutifully sends back the handshake in response to the "B" or the "X". One
problem resolved. But no joy yet.
There is a subsequent problem. (Murphy's law of multiple sufficient
causes!) Both STAMP2.EXE and STAMP2W.EXE require that the handshake return
within a very narrow time frame. The "B" or the "X" must return within
about 15 milliseconds, or else the RUN command times out with a "Hardware
not Found" error. Think about the "loopback delay". This is the time it
takes for the PC emulator to finally get around to putting a character out
the serial port after a BIOS request, added to the time it takes for the
response to propagate back throught the emulator to the software. The
emulator takes a little longer than 20 milliseconds to connect to the
serial port. I don't know why. I don't expect to get much help from the
publishers of softwindows. Maybe I will lobby Jeff to relax that timeout
delay if possible in the next version of STAMP2w.EXE.
I don't have a copy of VirtualPC, so I can't say if it has either or both
or different problems. There are added complication with the new USB Macs
that require a serial port converter. There was a rumor that one such
setup worked okay for programming the Stamp2 through the emulator, but I
remain skeptical. I have a beige G3 with real serial ports.
BTW, some Windows systems may get "hardware not found" errors due to
similar BIOS delays in connection with the serial port.
I have used the old versions of softPC on my Mac systems, running the
special version of STAMP2.EXE that Parallax provided for that (DOS)
environment. It sometimes works and sometimes not on my beige G3, but it
never works well. I gave up on that and use a PC for all my stamp
programming. But it sure would be nice to have the Mac option.
-- Tracy Allen
Electronically Monitored Ecosystems
http://www.emesystems.com
> There are added complication with the new USB Macs
> that require a serial port converter.
http://www.geethree.com/stealth.html
Gthree has a real live serial port for those of us who own UMA Macs. My G4 has
one that works with everything, including Appletalk and the very finicky Lego
Mindstorms hardware. It goes in place of the modem, but with the number of USB
and/or cable modems out there this shouldn't be a problem.
Just FYI of course...
-dave
It's hard to speak about something personal
when someone just doesnt get it. - Beth, on humanity
WCCR chief engineer, Professional student, geek at large, and I'm 6'4
dave paton http://homepage.mac.com/dpaton dave at ieee dot org
I too failed to get VPC to work with anything, I sent it back for the
refund. Rumor has it that a Mac Native compiler is in the works... I
don't know when though.
DLC
>
You wrote
>
> >That said, I can't wait! Both my 7600 and my serial port equipped G4 want
> >to talk to my stamp 2.
> >
>
> Have you tried any PC emulators?
>
> I had no luck with VirtualPC or SoftWindows but have my G3 (beige)
> working with SoftPC. SoftPC only recognises the 'real' serial ports so a
> USB to serial or serial card won't work hence the G4 or blue G3 won't
> work with Stamp2 via an emulator. SoftPC with your 7600 should be fine.
>
> Jim
>
>
>