Hey @jrullan - these types of topics are on our list and we plan on knocking them out, one by one. We have a number of P2 Quick Bytes ready to release, pretty quickly. Some include key drivers needed.
I think our next one will be a multi-channel ADC driver, then the SPI driver.
Happy you're interested. If we can get some significant interest behind the P2 and the sales reflect it, I could contribute Quick Bytes from many contributors through May/June. Otherwise, I'll need to focus the Spring 100% on educational customers and their seminars.
I'm also enjoying learning something new, a bunch.
I honor your honesty. I cannot provide detailed comparision for the P2. I did only check the Fibonacci test provided with flexprop and was impressed how fast it is running with Spin using PropTool. I didn't not compare it with P1 yet but it must be much slower.
For fibo(40) the program counted 8704 clocks on the P2 with the iterative version. That are 108.8 us running at 80 MHz as the P1. The recursive version is much slower.
The same program running in assembly (flexprop compiles Spin to assembly) shows 430 clocks. It uses only 5375 ns at 80 MHz.
So, there is a ratio of approximately 1:20 for PASM compared to Spin.
Thank you Kaio,
1:20 then. Some people say, that hand-optimized assembler might be ~2 times faster than compiler generated code.
This 1:20, Ken, is the reason, that you need to have (document+ teach + learn (!) ) pasm together with the spin (document+ teach+ learn) interpreter.
If you are thinking of building a battery operated unit, this 1:20 is a really big disadvantage, because your battery will last ~20 times longer, because you can reduce clock frequency or go into sleep mode for longer times, if you have a compiler.
When for P1 the first compiler (PropBasic) was made, I was really happy. I would not have thought, that Parallax would burden P2 once again with the combination Spin+Pasm.
Well, all of this has been said before, I think....
I'm thinking of complementing Quick Bytes with the equivalent in TAQOZ. I would go through all the I/O stuff, although there is so much there already that I think I could be a long time, but I thought I'd try dressing up the page a bit, a bit like this:
When for P1 the first compiler (PropBasic) was made, I was really happy. I would not have thought, that Parallax would burden P2 once again with the combination Spin+Pasm.
Most of us don't see that as a burden -- in fact, I quite like Spin2 and PASM2 and the ability to use them together, sometimes without needing a secondary cog (inline PASM2).
FTR, PropBASIC was created by an external entity. You have compiler choices: FlexProp and Catalina; the former offers Spin, C, and BASIC; the latter offers C. You can also use TAQOZ, and even MicroPython. There are many choices when it comes to programming the unique P2 hardware. Choose one and build something. Show the Propeller community you're capable of delivering more than complaints.
not knowing the P1 pasm/spin is a bit isue for me because every part of the P2 documentation bases on the knowlede i am missing. It would be fun to either find a quick start of P1 knowlege, or get a documentation that does not depend upon the P1 knowledge
I can't be fair, because I've been working with the P1 since before its public release -- but, can you point out an example of P2 information that relies on you knowing the P1? I want to make sure that my own writings (e.g., for Nuts & Volts magazine) don't fall into this trap.
@JonnyMac has a really useful surprise coming our way, hopefully this evening! Can't wait to get my paws on his example object (as soon as our guests leave).
@Kaio @"Ken Gracey"
You are correct on both counts. The 2 was suppose to be a superscript. I would have thought WordPress supported those. They were in my original Word document. I just sent Ken a list of corrections. I didn't realize it have been published yet. You are also correct about column count. It is right (8). I corrected this weeks ago and it still got by me somehow. Good catches.
@CJMJ It's fine that we could clarify both issues. I want only make sure that other readers don't rack one's brains.
BTW, it's a nice implementation going using the LUT.
I think the "Quick Bytes" examples are too quick. The Rotary Encoder,
and simple ADC Quick Bytes are just too short, chalked full of links,
and turse.
A PDF copy of the Quick Bytes Tutorial should be made available.
In the past, there have been many propeller objects and articles written
that require you to purchase Parallax product. Bare bones objects should
be the priority, and then apply the basic object to a Parallax product.
Perhaps the SPI basic object could be modernized.
This approach is similar to how the Basic Stamp help documentation was
laid out, and to a lesser degree, the Propeller manual.
I agree That a manual and data sheet is needed ASAP.
Bill M.
Perhaps now is the time to reinvent some classic BS2 keywords, until
a more complete list of objects are written.
I'm thinking of complementing Quick Bytes with the equivalent in TAQOZ. I would go through all the I/O stuff, although there is so much there already that I think I could be a long time, but I thought I'd try dressing up the page a bit, a bit like this:
As a new user to P1 and P2, I really like this idea. This is a quick place to find multiple concepts to use the P2. I like when the high level METHODOLOGY and TERMINOLOGY is included. And a real application EXAMPLE or LAB. Then the users have something that can help them read more detailed literature on the topic.
If you'd all like TAQOZ P2 Quick Bytes on the Parallax site, I'd be happy to host them as well. It would be easiest to post the PDFs from @"Peter Jakacki" which would also allow for the fastest updates and replacements.
Peter and friend Cluso99 are to be recognized for their valuable contributions to the P2, too. Great work, you two!
The ADC video would be good if I knew what
a P2 Quick Byte was. I know it was a first try,
but maybe it should be up loaded under a different
account or wait until it is dialed in.
Bill M.
A P2 Quick Byte is a short example of an object, code, a tool or special function of the Propeller 2.
There is a short video in this particular P2 Quick Byte, as you noticed.
If you'd all like TAQOZ P2 Quick Bytes on the Parallax site, I'd be happy to host them as well. It would be easiest to post the PDFs from @"Peter Jakacki" which would also allow for the fastest updates and replacements.
Peter and friend Cluso99 are to be recognized for their valuable contributions to the P2, too. Great work, you two!
Ken Gracey
Thanks Ken
TAQOZ is great and even tho the ROM doesn't include everything, it's a great start especially just to check out a new P2 board.
My initial tests for every new RetroBlade2 board is to use both TAQOZ and the Monitor in ROM. Also I use TAQOZ to test the Flash when present.
Perhaps I should make a QuickBytes for the testing as it can apply equally to other P2 boards?
BTW I have Parallax to thank for the friendships - I've met PeterJ, RossH, tubular and others directly from the (P1) forum
Ken, re: the ADC quick byte video. It would be better as a split screen view showing your handing waving over the sensors and the PST output at the same time instead of one after the other.
Not super clear what's going on the way it is now.
Ken, re: the ADC quick byte video. It would be better as a split screen view showing your handing waving over the sensors and the PST output at the same time instead of one after the other.
Not super clear what's going on the way it is now.
This is what I'm looking for and I concur that it would provide the visual connection this example really needs. You're absolutely constructive, Roy.
Ken, re: the ADC quick byte video. It would be better as a split screen view showing your handing waving over the sensors and the PST output at the same time instead of one after the other.
Not super clear what's going on the way it is now.
The ADC video would be good if I knew what a "Multiple ADC Input QuickByte" was.
I was referring to the title, and you repaired the title when you included
"Propeller P2" in the title. I found the video on YouTube, not Parallax.com
If some one searched YouTube for Parallax, Propeller, P1, or P2, they are
going to find these short videos and not realize they are part of a web site.
On YouTube short videos can be a waste of time.
Ken, have you cut the cord yet? If not, you are probably not using a Roku, or
Chrome Cast in place of satellite or cable TV subscription.
We cut the cord, and have total of 3 Roku, or Chrome Cast devices, and now
YouTube is in my top 3 content providers. So, I have a subscription to the Parallax
YouTube channel and the ADC video was on my que about ~35 minutes after it was
posted.
When I am browsing YouTube in the living room, I am always choosing videos
based on how time they take. 3 to 5 minutes is ok, but less than 3 minutes is
often not worth my time. 12 to 15 minutes is also ok because that is about how
long good electronic videos are.
I would enjoy seeing the same ADC video, in a 12 to 15 minutes format on a
dedicated Parallax Quick Byte channel (or category).
A video using the P1 or P2 with the Eight Talking cogs might make a good subject.
@"Capt. Quirk" I see your points. Yes, we've done the same and ditched the cable stuff after we extracted our limbs from their aggressive jaws.
We face a dilemma with posting videos on our site. If uploaded and posted directly in our site, the load and playtime is excessive. When linked from YouTube, the compression is great and they stream quickly. The problem with this approach like you pointed out is that our casual ParallaxInc YouTube subscribers will come across these 10 and 15-second videos, scratch their head, think "well, this kinda sucks" and move on. . .maybe wondering why we posted such a brief video. To make the YouTube subscribers aware there's more to be found, we will present the Quick Byte videos on YouTube in this way:
The title references something called a P2 Quick Byte, and there's a link to the resource prominently featured in the description.
Also, for the youtube videos, you could mark them as unlisted, the links will work fine, and they can still be embedded, they just won't show if someone browses your youtube channel. Also, when publishing to youtube you can uncheck the box that will notify subscribers, just in case it does that even if unlisted (I don't think it will).
Also, for the youtube videos, you could mark them as unlisted, the links will work fine, and they can still be embedded, they just won't show if someone browses your youtube channel. Also, when publishing to youtube you can uncheck the box that will notify subscribers, just in case it does that even if unlisted (I don't think it will).
Aha, okay. Considering more of them would be just like this, it seems like that's the way to go.
If I were to make Quick Byte programs/examples, what current P2 development environment(s) are we targeting?
For example if I want to include displaying of data/information using Chip's debug statements (text & graphic) that limits the example to just PNut for now and hopefully PropTool in the near future.
If I were to make Quick Byte programs/examples, what current P2 development environment(s) are we targeting?
For example if I want to include displaying of data/information using Chip's debug statements (text & graphic) that limits the example to just PNut for now and hopefully PropTool in the near future.
Propeller Tool for Windows is our primary target, but we designed this to accommodate all kinds of contributions - FlexProp, C, Mu with Python, etc.
If you create using PNut, it'll run in Propeller Tool for Windows pretty soon.
We welcome contributions! If you've got an idea, contact me and we can work through it.
I am thinking you should publish the Bill of Materials for the project(and availability of the P2D2 module if that is still an issue). After watching a couple of videos about the new Raspberry Pi Pico, I am afraid that they are going to kick our butts when it comes to price and documentation and community support. Yeah, it doesn't have the capabilities of a Pi2, but I see quick bytes as a foot in the door to get people, especially young ones, started. Having a price tag of over $150 to get started is not acceptable any more. While I regret not getting the Propeller Professional Development board a long time ago, as it would have saved me a lot of time, the price tag couldn't be justified in the short term. While the JonnyMac and Edge combination is lower cost than the P2Eval and external hardware, if you want adoption, you have to go lower priced, and the P2D2 could be a less painful option to get started with the P2 with it's price tag.
What I would really like to see is quick projects that people could do on the P2 that you just could not do on any other microcontroller, like logic analyzer or oscilloscope.
Comments
I think our next one will be a multi-channel ADC driver, then the SPI driver.
Happy you're interested. If we can get some significant interest behind the P2 and the sales reflect it, I could contribute Quick Bytes from many contributors through May/June. Otherwise, I'll need to focus the Spring 100% on educational customers and their seminars.
I'm also enjoying learning something new, a bunch.
Ken Gracey
1:20 then. Some people say, that hand-optimized assembler might be ~2 times faster than compiler generated code.
This 1:20, Ken, is the reason, that you need to have (document+ teach + learn (!) ) pasm together with the spin (document+ teach+ learn) interpreter.
If you are thinking of building a battery operated unit, this 1:20 is a really big disadvantage, because your battery will last ~20 times longer, because you can reduce clock frequency or go into sleep mode for longer times, if you have a compiler.
When for P1 the first compiler (PropBasic) was made, I was really happy. I would not have thought, that Parallax would burden P2 once again with the combination Spin+Pasm.
Well, all of this has been said before, I think....
What do you think?
FTR, PropBASIC was created by an external entity. You have compiler choices: FlexProp and Catalina; the former offers Spin, C, and BASIC; the latter offers C. You can also use TAQOZ, and even MicroPython. There are many choices when it comes to programming the unique P2 hardware. Choose one and build something. Show the Propeller community you're capable of delivering more than complaints.
https://www.parallax.com/rotary-encoder/
Ken Gracey
The description explains: "3*3-3" is right but what is meant with "32-3"?
In the example code for the lookup table (LUT) there's another mistake in the comment. But this should be "right(8)" as it is a 8 x 7 matrix and there are 8 bytes on each line.
Thomas
https://www.parallax.com/wireless-programming/
@JonnyMac has a really useful surprise coming our way, hopefully this evening! Can't wait to get my paws on his example object (as soon as our guests leave).
Ken Gracey
You are correct on both counts. The 2 was suppose to be a superscript. I would have thought WordPress supported those. They were in my original Word document. I just sent Ken a list of corrections. I didn't realize it have been published yet. You are also correct about column count. It is right (8). I corrected this weeks ago and it still got by me somehow. Good catches.
BTW, it's a nice implementation going using the LUT.
and simple ADC Quick Bytes are just too short, chalked full of links,
and turse.
A PDF copy of the Quick Bytes Tutorial should be made available.
In the past, there have been many propeller objects and articles written
that require you to purchase Parallax product. Bare bones objects should
be the priority, and then apply the basic object to a Parallax product.
Perhaps the SPI basic object could be modernized.
This approach is similar to how the Basic Stamp help documentation was
laid out, and to a lesser degree, the Propeller manual.
I agree That a manual and data sheet is needed ASAP.
Bill M.
Perhaps now is the time to reinvent some classic BS2 keywords, until
a more complete list of objects are written.
+1! I look forward to it!
Nick
Peter and friend Cluso99 are to be recognized for their valuable contributions to the P2, too. Great work, you two!
Ken Gracey
a "Multiple ADC Input QuickByte" was.
I know it was a first try, but maybe it should
be up loaded under a different account or wait
until it is dialed in.
Bill M.
A P2 Quick Byte is a short example of an object, code, a tool or special function of the Propeller 2.
There is a short video in this particular P2 Quick Byte, as you noticed.
What are your specific comments?
Thanks,
Ken Gracey
TAQOZ is great and even tho the ROM doesn't include everything, it's a great start especially just to check out a new P2 board.
My initial tests for every new RetroBlade2 board is to use both TAQOZ and the Monitor in ROM. Also I use TAQOZ to test the Flash when present.
Perhaps I should make a QuickBytes for the testing as it can apply equally to other P2 boards?
BTW I have Parallax to thank for the friendships - I've met PeterJ, RossH, tubular and others directly from the (P1) forum
Not super clear what's going on the way it is now.
This is what I'm looking for and I concur that it would provide the visual connection this example really needs. You're absolutely constructive, Roy.
Expect it later today.
Ken Gracey
Tell me @"Roy Eltham" if this is what you had in mind (I inserted a new video): https://www.parallax.com/32-channel-adc-object/
I was referring to the title, and you repaired the title when you included
"Propeller P2" in the title. I found the video on YouTube, not Parallax.com
If some one searched YouTube for Parallax, Propeller, P1, or P2, they are
going to find these short videos and not realize they are part of a web site.
On YouTube short videos can be a waste of time.
Ken, have you cut the cord yet? If not, you are probably not using a Roku, or
Chrome Cast in place of satellite or cable TV subscription.
We cut the cord, and have total of 3 Roku, or Chrome Cast devices, and now
YouTube is in my top 3 content providers. So, I have a subscription to the Parallax
YouTube channel and the ADC video was on my que about ~35 minutes after it was
posted.
When I am browsing YouTube in the living room, I am always choosing videos
based on how time they take. 3 to 5 minutes is ok, but less than 3 minutes is
often not worth my time. 12 to 15 minutes is also ok because that is about how
long good electronic videos are.
I would enjoy seeing the same ADC video, in a 12 to 15 minutes format on a
dedicated Parallax Quick Byte channel (or category).
A video using the P1 or P2 with the Eight Talking cogs might make a good subject.
Bill M.
We face a dilemma with posting videos on our site. If uploaded and posted directly in our site, the load and playtime is excessive. When linked from YouTube, the compression is great and they stream quickly. The problem with this approach like you pointed out is that our casual ParallaxInc YouTube subscribers will come across these 10 and 15-second videos, scratch their head, think "well, this kinda sucks" and move on. . .maybe wondering why we posted such a brief video. To make the YouTube subscribers aware there's more to be found, we will present the Quick Byte videos on YouTube in this way:
The title references something called a P2 Quick Byte, and there's a link to the resource prominently featured in the description.
Think this will help?
Ken Gracey
Also, for the youtube videos, you could mark them as unlisted, the links will work fine, and they can still be embedded, they just won't show if someone browses your youtube channel. Also, when publishing to youtube you can uncheck the box that will notify subscribers, just in case it does that even if unlisted (I don't think it will).
Aha, okay. Considering more of them would be just like this, it seems like that's the way to go.
I'll make that change now too!
Ken Gracey
If I were to make Quick Byte programs/examples, what current P2 development environment(s) are we targeting?
For example if I want to include displaying of data/information using Chip's debug statements (text & graphic) that limits the example to just PNut for now and hopefully PropTool in the near future.
Propeller Tool for Windows is our primary target, but we designed this to accommodate all kinds of contributions - FlexProp, C, Mu with Python, etc.
If you create using PNut, it'll run in Propeller Tool for Windows pretty soon.
We welcome contributions! If you've got an idea, contact me and we can work through it.
Ken Gracey
Can you make a quick byte on interfacing sd cards?
I am thinking you should publish the Bill of Materials for the project(and availability of the P2D2 module if that is still an issue). After watching a couple of videos about the new Raspberry Pi Pico, I am afraid that they are going to kick our butts when it comes to price and documentation and community support. Yeah, it doesn't have the capabilities of a Pi2, but I see quick bytes as a foot in the door to get people, especially young ones, started. Having a price tag of over $150 to get started is not acceptable any more. While I regret not getting the Propeller Professional Development board a long time ago, as it would have saved me a lot of time, the price tag couldn't be justified in the short term. While the JonnyMac and Edge combination is lower cost than the P2Eval and external hardware, if you want adoption, you have to go lower priced, and the P2D2 could be a less painful option to get started with the P2 with it's price tag.
What I would really like to see is quick projects that people could do on the P2 that you just could not do on any other microcontroller, like logic analyzer or oscilloscope.