Cluso's RetroBlade2 Single Chip Computer (taking orders and payment)

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Comments

  • Cluso99 wrote: »
    Can bulk ship to US :)
    Cost is A$39 500g so about 10-15 boards IIRC. They say 2-4 wkg days but slower with Covid.

    That sounds good for 10 boards, We could spread the cost out.
  • @Cluso99 Board looks good, congratulations!

    Can you use the Prop Plug to program it?
  • Rayman wrote: »
    @Cluso99 Board looks good, congratulations!

    Can you use the Prop Plug to program it?
    Yes. Just set the solder link to bypass the transistor reset. It's a solder link, not a jumper, so consider it permanent.
  • @Ahle2
    @Mickster
    @Tubular
    @GHarris
    @Publison
    Do you require Flash? I am limited in flash chips so might be next run in a few weeks.

    @Ahle2
    @Mickster
    @frank freedman
    @Tharkun
    What country are you in? ie USA or not.
  • Yes please to flash
  • Flash = Yes
  • First: I need those who I note two posts ago to respond to the question re Flash and Country please.

    I spent an interesting time over the last couple of days looking into Flash and the WP/HOLD/Reset pins.
    Cypress/Spansion specifically state that there is an internal pullup on these pins and may be left floating. No other Flash manufactures specifically states what is required. As these pins are used as data I/O when in Dual or Quad SPI mode, I think that tying to 3V3 or even pullups is probably not required. There is a warning about tying to 3V3 if the Flash is put into Dual/Quad SPI mode.

    So, currently I am inclined to not connect these pins (ie no hardware mod required) when installing Flash on the RetroBlade2. Thoughts anyone???
  • jmgjmg Posts: 14,539
    Cluso99 wrote: »
    Cypress/Spansion specifically state that there is an internal pullup on these pins and may be left floating. No other Flash manufactures specifically states what is required. As these pins are used as data I/O when in Dual or Quad SPI

    PUYA says this
    2. There is an internal pull up resistor for the dedicated RESET pin. If the reset function is not needed, this
    pin can be left floating in the system.

    but they also say this
    The P25Q32H can also be configured to utilize a hardware RESET pin. The HOLD/ RST bit in the Configure
    Register is the configuration bit for HOLD # p in function or RESET # pin function. When HOLD/RST=0 (factory
    default), the pin acts as a HOLD pin as described above; when HOLD/RST=1, the pin acts as a RESET pin.
    Drive the RESET pin low for a minimum period of ~1us (tRESET*) will reset the device to its initial power on
    state. Any on going Program/Erase operation will be interrupted and data corruption may happen. While
    RESET is low, the device will not accept any command input.
    If QE bit is set to 1, the HOLD or RESET function will be disabled, the pin will become one of the four data I/O pins.
    Hardware RESET pin has the highest priority among all the input signals. Drive RESET low for a minimum
    period of ~1us (tRESET*) will inter rupt any on going external/internal operations, regardless the status of
    other SPI signals (/CS, CLK, IOs, WP and/or HOLD ##).

    Which is vague on if the disabled reset# still has the pullup.

    Winbond says this in W25Q32JV-DTR
    2. There is an internal pull-up resistor for the dedicated /RESET pin on the SOIC-16 package. If the reset function is not needed, this pin can be left floating in the system.


    I'm not sure you can reliably float and hope on WP# and HOLD# ?
  • Just soldered the W25Q64JVSSIQ 8MB Flash into my RetroBlade2.
    Then, from PST with TAQOZ (from the P2 ROM "> [space] [ctl-D]" I tested it as follows and it's working :sunglasses:
    x
      Cold start
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Parallax P2  .:.:--TAQOZ--:.:.  V1.1--v33h         190219-1900
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    TAQOZ# .sf --- $EF40_1700 $4360_2930_$DF69_ACF0 ok
    TAQOZ# lsio ---
    
    P:00000000001111111111222222222233333333334444444444555555555566
    
    P:01234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901
    
    =:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~hh ok
    TAQOZ# 0 $40 SF DUMP ---
    00000: FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF     '................'
    00010: FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF     '................'
    00020: FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF     '................'
    00030: FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF     '................' ok
    TAQOZ# @WORDS 0 $100 SFWRS ---  ok
    TAQOZ# 0 $40 SF DUMP ---
    00000: 03 44 55 50  73 00 04 4F  56 45 52 77  00 04 53 57     '.DUPs..OVERw..SW'
    00010: 41 50 7E 00  03 52 4F 54  82 00 04 2D  52 4F 54 81     'AP~..ROT...-ROT.'
    00020: 00 04 44 52  4F 50 69 00  03 33 52 44  79 00 03 34     '..DROPi..3RDy..4'
    00030: 54 48 7B 00  05 32 44 52  4F 50 68 00  05 33 44 52     'TH{..2DROPh..3DR' ok
    TAQOZ# SFERASE ---  ok
    TAQOZ# 0 $40 SF DUMP ---
    00000: FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF     '................'
    00010: FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF     '................'
    00020: FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF     '................'
    00030: FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF     '................' ok
    TAQOZ#
    
  • jmgjmg Posts: 14,539
    If you pull the pin low using a uA meter, what does it read ?
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 16,909
    edited 2020-11-13 - 05:35:09
    jmg wrote: »
    Cluso99 wrote: »
    Cypress/Spansion specifically state that there is an internal pullup on these pins and may be left floating. No other Flash manufactures specifically states what is required. As these pins are used as data I/O when in Dual or Quad SPI

    PUYA says this
    2. There is an internal pull up resistor for the dedicated RESET pin. If the reset function is not needed, this
    pin can be left floating in the system.

    but they also say this
    The P25Q32H can also be configured to utilize a hardware RESET pin. The HOLD/ RST bit in the Configure
    Register is the configuration bit for HOLD # p in function or RESET # pin function. When HOLD/RST=0 (factory
    default), the pin acts as a HOLD pin as described above; when HOLD/RST=1, the pin acts as a RESET pin.
    Drive the RESET pin low for a minimum period of ~1us (tRESET*) will reset the device to its initial power on
    state. Any on going Program/Erase operation will be interrupted and data corruption may happen. While
    RESET is low, the device will not accept any command input.
    If QE bit is set to 1, the HOLD or RESET function will be disabled, the pin will become one of the four data I/O pins.
    Hardware RESET pin has the highest priority among all the input signals. Drive RESET low for a minimum
    period of ~1us (tRESET*) will inter rupt any on going external/internal operations, regardless the status of
    other SPI signals (/CS, CLK, IOs, WP and/or HOLD ##).

    Which is vague on if the disabled reset# still has the pullup.

    Winbond says this in W25Q32JV-DTR
    2. There is an internal pull-up resistor for the dedicated /RESET pin on the SOIC-16 package. If the reset function is not needed, this pin can be left floating in the system.


    I'm not sure you can reliably float and hope on WP# and HOLD# ?
    From the Cypress S25FL064L datasheet page 9. The S25FL128L/S25FL256L datasheet states the same.

    S25FL064L-clip.jpg

    Pretty clear to me!

    740 x 186 - 66K
  • jmgjmg Posts: 14,539
    Cluso99 wrote: »
    From the Cypress S25FL064L datasheet page 9. The S25FL128L/S25FL256L datasheet states the same.
    Pretty clear to me!
    ?
    Yet you stated above that you were using W25Q64JVSSIQ, not the S25FL series ?

  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 16,909
    edited 2020-11-13 - 06:29:10
    jmg wrote: »
    Cluso99 wrote: »
    From the Cypress S25FL064L datasheet page 9. The S25FL128L/S25FL256L datasheet states the same.
    Pretty clear to me!
    ?
    Yet you stated above that you were using W25Q64JVSSIQ, not the S25FL series ?
    I think my original post was pretty clear...
    Cypress/Spansion specifically state that there is an internal pullup on these pins and may be left floating. No other Flash manufacturers specifically states what is required.

    As I said, it's not guaranteed, but it is likely the other manufacturers have internal pullups too. Otherwise a pullup would need to be fitted to each pin, and should be stated in the datasheet. I would expect to see the datasheets updated within the last ~9 years, and particularly the newer part(s) datasheets if pullups are indeed required.
    There is a warning I found (looked at too many datasheets now) that warns about tying the pin(s) to Vcc which would conflict if D/QSPI mode is entered.

    Initial testing with winbond does indeed work without pullups. I know one board is not enough to guarantee it tho.
  • Publison wrote: »
    Flash = Yes

    A few of us stateside would like to get the correct cheap serial2usb board that Cluso99 said that he used. Is that something you can gather for us(with a markup for your time) if you handle distribution within the USA?
  • hinvhinv Posts: 939
    edited 2020-11-14 - 10:02:42
    Cluso99 wrote: »
    Just soldered the W25Q64JVSSIQ 8MB Flash into my RetroBlade2.
    Then, from PST with TAQOZ (from the P2 ROM "> [space] [ctl-D]" I tested it as follows and it's working :sunglasses:
    x
      Cold start
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Parallax P2  .:.:--TAQOZ--:.:.  V1.1--v33h         190219-1900
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    TAQOZ# .sf --- $EF40_1700 $4360_2930_$DF69_ACF0 ok
    TAQOZ# lsio ---
    
    P:00000000001111111111222222222233333333334444444444555555555566
    
    P:01234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901
    
    =:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~hh ok
    TAQOZ# 0 $40 SF DUMP ---
    00000: FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF     '................'
    00010: FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF     '................'
    00020: FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF     '................'
    00030: FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF     '................' ok
    TAQOZ# @WORDS 0 $100 SFWRS ---  ok
    TAQOZ# 0 $40 SF DUMP ---
    00000: 03 44 55 50  73 00 04 4F  56 45 52 77  00 04 53 57     '.DUPs..OVERw..SW'
    00010: 41 50 7E 00  03 52 4F 54  82 00 04 2D  52 4F 54 81     'AP~..ROT...-ROT.'
    00020: 00 04 44 52  4F 50 69 00  03 33 52 44  79 00 03 34     '..DROPi..3RDy..4'
    00030: 54 48 7B 00  05 32 44 52  4F 50 68 00  05 33 44 52     'TH{..2DROPh..3DR' ok
    TAQOZ# SFERASE ---  ok
    TAQOZ# 0 $40 SF DUMP ---
    00000: FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF     '................'
    00010: FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF     '................'
    00020: FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF     '................'
    00030: FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF     '................' ok
    TAQOZ#
    

    That looks a bit Greek to me (or is it Polish?). I can't wait to play with TAQOZ on my RetroBlade2! In the meantime, can someone point me to the documentation for it?
  • Peter JakackiPeter Jakacki Posts: 9,811
    edited 2020-11-13 - 14:20:07
    I have much better USB serial devices that include smart reset on serial load and up to 8Mbd operation. The uPORT uses the same EFM8UB3 chip I use on the P2D2 and you can also talk to it via I2C for additional control and A/D plus optional RTC.
    There's another version I will do next which will connect up a bit like the ebay versions with a USB A plug and then just the pin header on the other end.
    I will be sending a shipment across to publison along with the P2D2 stuff next week which is also consolidated with Cluso's shipment as well.
  • hinv wrote: »
    That looks a big Greek to me (or is it Polish?).

    I can help you with Polish all right but, honestly, I can't spot a single character here that would be specific to Polish :).
    I'd say this is much more English than Polish.

    TAQOZ is fun as is Tachyon and veeery efficient. You really should try it.

  • Bob Edwards wrote a guide for TAQOZ in ROM.
    TAQOZ RELOADED is a much larger beast that still fits in 64k but that will be another project documenting that since there is so much to it.

  • hinv wrote: »
    Cluso99 wrote: »
    Just soldered the W25Q64JVSSIQ 8MB Flash into my RetroBlade2.
    Then, from PST with TAQOZ (from the P2 ROM "> [space] [ctl-D]" I tested it as follows and it's working :sunglasses:
    x
      Cold start
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Parallax P2  .:.:--TAQOZ--:.:.  V1.1--v33h         190219-1900
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    TAQOZ# .sf --- $EF40_1700 $4360_2930_$DF69_ACF0 ok
    TAQOZ# lsio ---
    
    P:00000000001111111111222222222233333333334444444444555555555566
    
    P:01234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901
    
    =:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~hh ok
    TAQOZ# 0 $40 SF DUMP ---
    00000: FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF     '................'
    00010: FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF     '................'
    00020: FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF     '................'
    00030: FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF     '................' ok
    TAQOZ# @WORDS 0 $100 SFWRS ---  ok
    TAQOZ# 0 $40 SF DUMP ---
    00000: 03 44 55 50  73 00 04 4F  56 45 52 77  00 04 53 57     '.DUPs..OVERw..SW'
    00010: 41 50 7E 00  03 52 4F 54  82 00 04 2D  52 4F 54 81     'AP~..ROT...-ROT.'
    00020: 00 04 44 52  4F 50 69 00  03 33 52 44  79 00 03 34     '..DROPi..3RDy..4'
    00030: 54 48 7B 00  05 32 44 52  4F 50 68 00  05 33 44 52     'TH{..2DROPh..3DR' ok
    TAQOZ# SFERASE ---  ok
    TAQOZ# 0 $40 SF DUMP ---
    00000: FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF     '................'
    00010: FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF     '................'
    00020: FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF     '................'
    00030: FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF  FF FF FF FF     '................' ok
    TAQOZ#
    

    That looks a big Greek to me (or is it Polish?). I can't wait to play with TAQOZ on my RetroBlade2! In the meantime, can someone point me to the documentation for it?

    The characters between the “TAQOZ# “ and “ —-“ are what I entered, the rest is TAQOZ’s responses. The Flash ID response would need decoding.
    Basically, the
    .sf reads the flash chips ID etc
    lsio displays the P2 input pins states
    ... dump reads and displays a section of the flash memory
    @words... writes some data to the flash
  • @hinv etc
    Just buy your USB dongle on fleabay. As long as you get the one in the pic you are good to go. Cannot do better than ~$1.50 shipped. Buy a couple.

    @all
    Unfortunately Alice... on fleabay have become so big they have now opted to charge significant freight costs so you have to buy those elsewhere - which I might add, are often just drop-ships from Alice anyway. They all come from the one China factory anyway.
    Anything we ship from Oz (or most places outside China) costs $$$ and is weight based.

    As Peter said, we will likely do a tiny specific version of his uPort with the correct pinout for the RetroBlade2, but that will come later.

  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 16,909
    edited 2020-11-13 - 19:56:56
    Most of you have asked for the Flash which I never anticipated. I just slapped an SOIC8 footprint under the pcb immediately before sending the pcb off to manufacture. I should have made the footprint take an XSON8 (8*6) and (6*5) too but I didn’t. Hand soldering the XSON is not as easy. BTW the xson8 8*6 will fit, just a pita to hand solder without wider pads.

    My intention is for the RetroBlade2 is for standalone operation. It doesn’t need Flash for that as you will need a microSD card anyway, and P2 boots perfectly from SD without needing Flash. A microSD is only around A$8 here atm.

    I am quietly hoping that one of the onboard microUSB ports might be able to run as a slave to the PC, negating the whole USB-Serial requirement. Wonder if GarryJ has it on his list?
  • Cluso99 wrote: »
    Most of you have asked for the Flash which I never anticipated. I just slapped an SOIC8 footprint under the pcb immediately before sending the pcb off to manufacture. I should have made the footprint take an XSON8 (8*6) and (6*5) too but I didn’t. Hand soldering the XSON is not as easy. BTW the xson8 8*6 will fit, just a pita to hand solder without wider pads.

    I am happy to retract my request for flash if that meant I get it faster. Also, I think I can solder it myself when I get around to needing it. For me, my preference is faster rather than flashier.
  • hinv wrote: »
    Cluso99 wrote: »
    Most of you have asked for the Flash which I never anticipated. I just slapped an SOIC8 footprint under the pcb immediately before sending the pcb off to manufacture. I should have made the footprint take an XSON8 (8*6) and (6*5) too but I didn’t. Hand soldering the XSON is not as easy. BTW the xson8 8*6 will fit, just a pita to hand solder without wider pads.

    I am happy to retract my request for flash if that meant I get it faster. Also, I think I can solder it myself when I get around to needing it. For me, my preference is faster rather than flashier.
    Peter is sending me some Cypress Flash chips with the P2 chips so hopefully I'll have enough for current orders, and if not, I have more coming.

  • I was thinking of going with flash but are we non-gurus able to use it and if so, how?



  • Mickster wrote: »
    I was thinking of going with flash but are we non-gurus able to use it and if so, how?
    Some of the loaders should be able to program the Flash so the board will boot into it on power up. If they don't already do that, then I'm sure they will sooner rather than later. However, I don't expect to use the flash - I just soldered it onto my board to verify it works.

    With SD you can just copy a compiled binary file to the SD (FAT32 formatted) renamed as "_BOOT_P2.BIX" and when the P2 is powered up with an SD card installed this file is looked for and if found will load and execute it. Flash is not needed in this case.
    I'm also sure that you will be able to download a file to the SD (via the P2) and visa versa sometime soonish.
    For now tho, I have a USB to microSD dongle (came with my 3D printer as my cheapie fleabay version died a while ago) that plugs into my Windoze pc. It is a simple matter to copy the binary to the SD card. I also have a microSD to SD card adapter which I can plug into my laptop (my PC doesn't have an SD slot) and do the file copy.
  • Maciek wrote: »
    hinv wrote: »
    That looks a big Greek to me (or is it Polish?).

    I can help you with Polish all right but, honestly, I can't spot a single character here that would be specific to Polish :).
    I'd say this is much more English than Polish.

    TAQOZ is fun as is Tachyon and veeery efficient. You really should try it.

    I meant how Forth is stack based as in Reverse Polish Notation. Yes, I can't wait to try TAQOZ. I just can't justify spending over $200 for a P2Eval board.

    I might go try Tachyon today as i have a few P1 boards.
  • I have much better USB serial devices that include smart reset on serial load and up to 8Mbd operation. The uPORT uses the same EFM8UB3 chip I use on the P2D2 and you can also talk to it via I2C for additional control and A/D plus optional RTC.
    There's another version I will do next which will connect up a bit like the ebay versions with a USB A plug and then just the pin header on the other end.
    I will be sending a shipment across to publison along with the P2D2 stuff next week which is also consolidated with Cluso's shipment as well.

    Yeah, 8Mbd would be cool, for sure, but when are you actually shipping?
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 16,909
    edited 2020-11-14 - 23:46:37
    Here are the parts that will be shipping loose (unsoldered) with my board...
    * Two 1x40 Four 1x20 0.1" male headers (for the I/O and power/ground pins around the board)
    * One VGA female connector
    * One 1x6 0.1" female header
    * Two 1x6 0.1" female with long male pins
    E6EF2C24-E712-4E42-83A7-8F6081D63E29.jpeg

    In addition (providing they arrive in time to ship with the boards) I will also be including (unsoldered)...
    * Three 1x20 0.1" female headers (these can mate or replace the male headers provided for the I/O pins around the board)
    (no photo)

    By including the 4@ 1x20 0.1" male headers and 3@ 1x20 0.1" female headers, you can decide whether to fit male or female to your board, and you have the mating connector just in case. You'll need to cut down one 1x20 female to 1x16 for the bottom connector if you don't use the VGA.

    By including the 1@ 1x6 female and 2@ 1x6 female with long pins (plus the left over 1x6 0.1" male header from the 1x40) you can decide what to fit to the 6pin header that goes to the TTL to USB pins. I solder a 1x6 female to the pcb and use the extended pin versions to extend them off the pcb to the USB-TTL dongle. I remove the 5V pin on one of the connectors so that I have a choice of supplying 5V from the USB (ie PC). This is probably worth its' own post.

    For me to supply these headers is cheap as I buy them in bulk. But I know from my own history, if you have to buy them one-off they cost a fortune.
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 16,909
    edited 2020-11-14 - 22:46:33
    If anyone wants one (or more) of Peter’s microMAT 0.050” prototype pcbs 3.75”x2.75” with your RetroBlade2 board(s) please let me know here. Takes both 0.1” pins on 0.1” pitch and 0.050” pins on 0.050” pitch. They are nice ENIG (gold) through hole double sided pcbs 1.6mm.

    I’ll get a price from Peter.

    A19BCD0E-7644-4016-A85E-50F32764C07F.jpeg
  • Shipping...

    I’m hoping to get the USA boards (P2D2s too) off to Publison on Mon/Tue 23 November so should arrive at Publison’s the week of Mon 30 November for on-posting.

    I will post payment details during the coming week.
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