PNut/Spin2 Latest Version (v34z - Lots of DEBUG display stuff)

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  • jmgjmg Posts: 14,481
    cgracey wrote: »
    My computer was acting funny, so I rebooted and Microsoft installed Edge. There was no way out of it.

    I went to download the last file I posted and, sure enough, it said it was a virus. I clicked my way through a few things to get it off my back, then I unzipped it. After about a second, it deleted the .exe file and said that it had removed a threat. I found my way through some other non-intuitive menus and got the program back. This is really lousy. You can't write Windows programs, anymore, without their agreement, it seems.

    Which version of Delphi are you using ?
    I find this, that has a general discussion on choices
    https://www.codedotshow.com/blog/delphi-10-3-rio-code-signing-provisioning-and-the-microsoft-app-store/
    Google also suggests Delphi is prone to triggering virus positives, maybe because older versions are rare enough to stand out more ?
  • jmg wrote: »
    cgracey wrote: »
    My computer was acting funny, so I rebooted and Microsoft installed Edge. There was no way out of it.

    I went to download the last file I posted and, sure enough, it said it was a virus. I clicked my way through a few things to get it off my back, then I unzipped it. After about a second, it deleted the .exe file and said that it had removed a threat. I found my way through some other non-intuitive menus and got the program back. This is really lousy. You can't write Windows programs, anymore, without their agreement, it seems.

    Which version of Delphi are you using ?
    I find this, that has a general discussion on choices
    https://www.codedotshow.com/blog/delphi-10-3-rio-code-signing-provisioning-and-the-microsoft-app-store/
    Google also suggests Delphi is prone to triggering virus positives, maybe because older versions are rare enough to stand out more ?

    I am using Version 6.0 (Build 6.163), copyright 2001.
  • JonnyMacJonnyMac Posts: 6,960
    edited 2020-08-03 - 13:32:12
    A self hosting development board, kind of the super prop plug is a solution.
    I'm going to politely disagree. The goal is to share code with others; a self-hosted system does not really facilitate that. Let's get the Spin2 compiler code translated to C so that it can be ported to any OS (and even compiled to run on the P2) -- perhaps even translated to other languages (e.g., Python).
    ...big tech companies are becoming more and more controlling. I would feel a lot better being outside of their systems.
    Writing the compiler in a language that can run on any OS will help you with that.
  • msrobots wrote: »
    A self hosting development board, kind of the super prop plug is a solution.

    Mike
    JonnyMac wrote: »
    I'm going to politely disagree. The goal is to share code with others; a self-hosted system does not really facilitate that. Let's get the Spin2 compiler code translated to C so that it can be ported to any OS (and even compiled to run on the P2) -- perhaps even translated to other languages (e.g., Python).
    ...big tech companies are becoming more and more controlling. I would feel a lot better being outside of their systems.
    Writing the compiler in a language that can run on any OS will help you with that.

    I agree 100% with msrobots and Jon. it makes sense to write the code in C and run it under Linux. I have a P1 and an ODROID board mounted on the back of an old monitor that I used for a project a while back, and that combo was a great help in getting it done. With Raspberry Pi's having as much as 8GB of memory they would make an excellent first choice for the "super prop plug" proposed by Mike. Once the code is running on the Pi it should not be too hard to port it to the P2 or any other OS.
  • There is Free Pascal, that Chip might prefer to adopt over C - https://www.freepascal.org/

  • evanh wrote: »
    There is Free Pascal, that Chip might prefer to adopt over C - https://www.freepascal.org/

    That looks interesting. I wonder how it would support Windows API calls or API calls of other OS's. Or, is the point to make command line programs that just use console I/O?
  • jmgjmg Posts: 14,481
    cgracey wrote: »
    evanh wrote: »
    There is Free Pascal, that Chip might prefer to adopt over C - https://www.freepascal.org/

    That looks interesting. I wonder how it would support Windows API calls or API calls of other OS's. Or, is the point to make command line programs that just use console I/O?

    Here are some examples
    https://wiki.freepascal.org/Projects_using_Lazarus_-_Editors_and_IDEs
  • That is the product that was used for BST.
  • cgracey wrote: »
    Yes, I've not liked where Microsoft has been heading for 30 years. It's getting really unfriendly.

    Well Linux can help free you, and using C can make things more portable over multiple platforms. Writing tools in x86 asm is only likely to make things harder going forward, particularly if there is a push towards ARM cores coming in the next years for PC CPUs.

    Moving towards self-hosting, if/when a sufficiently complete C is available on the P2 for your needs (maybe it's there already) a command line compiler tool may directly port over to run on the P2 too (assuming a file system and sufficient memory is available), though I know you are already working on a SPIN2 compiler in SPIN2 which is hopefully nice and small anyway and could work out too if it remains fast enough to compile full P2 applications.

    If you can separate your build tools from your IDE this would help. Integrating lots of features together in PropTool using dedicated Windows capabilities can only make porting such tools to other platforms a lot more difficult. Plus if you are adding in all this extra graphics debug stuff now that could make things even harder if it's Windows only. You might consider to look into SDL (or other alternatives) for graphic display output as that has some cross platform capabilities for MAC/Linux too. As well as the FreePascal option I did read that commercial Embarcadero Delphi is now supported on other platforms if that is still Parallax's tool of choice for an IDE.

    Nothing's simple anymore though and there are no perfect solutions when it comes to this problem, and the changing technology is simply relentless. Ongoing maintenance is still required as underlying system capabilities change around you (which is where self hosting helps the most I guess). But having straightforward command line C code that uses minimal system capabilities has probably one of the lowest maintenance requirements around IMO and will be supported for a long time to come on multiple existing (and future) platforms. It's all that fancy GUI stuff that brings in the problems. Best let other people try to solve that for you and let them try to keep their dev tools current. There really should be no need to write editors for PC platforms anymore for example. A cross-platform debug/download tool/environment does need to be supported though, we can't really eliminate that requirement. There is a good loadp2 tool that is already working cross-platform, but it is certainly not an environment, and something needs to be built on top to use it, and that pesky serial port open/close P2 reset issue remains.
  • cgracey wrote: »
    evanh wrote: »
    There is Free Pascal, that Chip might prefer to adopt over C - https://www.freepascal.org/
    That looks interesting. I wonder how it would support Windows API calls or API calls of other OS's. Or, is the point to make command line programs that just use console I/O?
    It's all done with libraries. For example, when I ported your PX program for loading the Prop123 FPGA development board, I had to find a suitable replacement, synaser, to handle the Windoze specific Delphi module for the comports. It wasn't a perfect match so there was some hacking to make it fit.

    I didn't look at what common cross-platform libraries there are, nor what it would take to build one.

  • @cgracey
    @evanh

    Hey guys I have a question?
    Did you ever figure this out. I cannot move forward because of this error.
    I was told by @VonSzarvas that there are hdmi examples in the new version of Pnut. I cannot access because it still tells me that Pnut is a virus and I cannot download a "virus".
    Just asking.
    Thanks
    Martin
  • Can't help sorry, I use Linux and don't have a recent Windoze to test with.
  • @pilot0315 files attached. Best file PNut_v34ua.zip but try them all. Always say yes and never no...
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  • I will generate a new PNut.exe today or tomorrow, which includes new graphical DEBUG features, but I don't know what kind of "virus" problems we will encounter with it.
  • @kg1
    Thanks I will download it and try.
  • cgracey wrote: »
    I will generate a new PNut.exe today or tomorrow, which includes new graphical DEBUG features, but I don't know what kind of "virus" problems we will encounter with it.

    I'll let you know since all my PNuts have been deleted since Version S. I uninstalled AVG AntiVirus, (I don't remember installing it), I looked for Windows Defender, I does not exist ?!?! Who is is deleting PNut.exe now on downloading?
  • Yes, most of the time I find a way around it but this time it's a tough one LOL. Also I tried a few different browser.

    Sorry, this file is infected with a virus

    Only the owner is allowed to download infected files.

  • Bob Lawrence (VE1RLL)Bob Lawrence (VE1RLL) Posts: 1,705
    edited 2020-08-12 - 01:30:54
    OK got it . I just disabled Avast for a few minutes.

    Pnut_u.png

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  • @Publison
    I'll let you know since all my PNuts have been deleted since Version S. I uninstalled AVG AntiVirus, (I don't remember installing it), I looked for Windows Defender, I does not exist ?!?! Who is is deleting PNut.exe now on downloading?

    Try rebooting to Safe mode with networking and see it that works.
  • Interesting. Everything was working fine untill Avast (that I disabled for a short time) kicked back in.

    AvastPnut.png
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  • What is IDP.Generic?
    For people who use various anti-virus software, IDP.Generic is a common threat name. IDP is 'Identity Protection', so when a security application detects a threat called IDP.Generic, it indicates that it was detected by this component (Identity Protection), which generalized a detected file. This detection is often a 'false positive'.

    There are many possible infections that could be generalized as IDP.Generic threats. For example, a game file. If the installed anti-virus software detects it as a threat, it is very likely that the game will not be able to start. The same applies to other programs that contain files identified as IDP.Generic threats. As mentioned, this threat is commonly categorized as a false positive detection - the installed anti-virus program detected a harmless/legitimate file as a threat and either quarantined or removed it. In some cases, these detections lead to removal of important system files or other significant data, however, not all detected threats are false positives. In many cases, cyber criminals disguise malicious files as legitimate. They make their names very similar to legitimate files, which are then not detected as threats or malicious. In this particular case, we advise that you double check and run a virus scan using another program. Also ensure that the installed anti-virus (or anti-spyware) software is up-to-date. If not, update it and run the scan again. Check if it still detects files as the IDP.Generic threat and if other security programs/tools detect the same file as a threat. If so, it should be removed immediately. It could be a Trojan designed to proliferate viruses and cause data/financial loss and other serious problems.
  • Jeff Martin at Parallax has been going around and around with this for days, trying to discover the cause. It seems our code, and I mean the actual guts of PNut.exe, is now being identified as a virus, which it is not. This is akin to a facial recognition mistake. This may take time and petitioning to undo. I will post a new version today and we will hope for the best.
  • Windows 10 Pro on my laptop has deleted all version after "C". This is a BIG issue. I can't pursue any development at this point.
  • Chip, if you pack the .exe with a packer like UPX, it might sidestep the issue. Alternatively, it can get the packed exe flagged since apparently some virus writers use tools like UPX to disguise their virus' signature.

    Jonathan
  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 13,053
    edited 2020-08-12 - 16:44:53
    lonesock wrote: »
    Chip, if you pack the .exe with a packer like UPX, it might sidestep the issue. Alternatively, it can get the packed exe flagged since apparently some virus writers use tools like UPX to disguise their virus' signature.

    Jonathan

    Yes, using UPX briefly was what really stepped up our "virus" problems. Once I did that, it seems we can't get anything out reliably, anymore, even though I'm not using UPX, anymore. It squeezes the file to 1/3 size, which is nice, but we look like criminals.
  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 13,053
    edited 2020-08-12 - 16:46:14
    Publison wrote: »
    Windows 10 Pro on my laptop has deleted all version after "C". This is a BIG issue. I can't pursue any development at this point.

    Yes, it's like it sees our software, what I've been working on all these years, and now deems it a virus. I can't just change all my code to appease it.
  • Have you reported it as a false positive to M$ already?
  • JonnyMac wrote: »
    I'm going to politely disagree. The goal is to share code with others; a self-hosted system does not really facilitate that.

    Development could be self hosted on the P2 now given the hardware that's available. The non-trivial part would be writing the software. Once that was written you would be free of Windows, Linux, MacOS, etc. and all the different accomodations required.

    Code could easily be loaded onto a microSD card for transfer to a PC and upload to Github for sharing.

    My first computer was an Apple II clone with 2 x 160 Kb floppy disk drives and a microprocessor that ran at 1 Mhz. You could do useful things with it including software development. Surely the P2 is capable of doing much more than the old Apple II.

    Sandy
  • Bob Lawrence (VE1RLL)Bob Lawrence (VE1RLL) Posts: 1,705
    edited 2020-08-12 - 17:35:31
    You can scan the files with an online virus checker and see that it is clean.

    I just ran it through and it gets a bunch of green checks from a variety of AV packages (around 36 ) :)

    https://www.virustotal.com/gui/home/url


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  • wouldn't digital signing help?
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