P2-ES Board Support

13

Comments

  • T
    So the problem I've had with boards is actually snapping the microSD since they are so thin and fragile and normally they are tucked away inside a device safe n snug. I've snapped around about a dozen cards in the last few years and I even snapped a 32GB the other day!

    When using these compact sockets you have to take into account even that little 0.5mm gap not only only for the card but also for the socket itself as some of you have noted. In fact on my P2D2 I have a socket mounted on the P2 side facing in so that the card slides in over the Flash but I also have a socket in parallel on the reverse side facing out. This exterior socket is only meant for development testing as it allows the card to be changed easily but I have already lifted the socket off the board so that it needs resoldering.

    The point of my original post is that we only need to put something a bit thinner than a credit card thickness under there to support it and whereas I had difficulty trying to safely remove it before, I can now just push down and rely on the raised end of the card for the grip as I flick it out. The pad also helps to guide the card in too. Funny thing was that when I was doing this the other day I was talking to Cluso99 on the phone and he was drilling an indentation in the edge of the board (which I could hear) but he was then worried about shorts through the layers. I think my way was simpler and faster :)
    The recess in the pcb works nicely if it were done on the pcb. Rev 2 suggestion.

    I have never snapped a card but I am very careful - <reaching for the wood>
    My Prop boards: P8XBlade2, RamBlade, CpuBlade, TriBlade
    Prop OS (also see Sphinx, PropDos, PropCmd, Spinix)
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    Prop Tools (Index) , Emulators (Index) , ZiCog (Z80)
  • samuellsamuell Posts: 405
    edited 2019-01-19 - 02:45:07
    The Spinneret Web Server board has a pretty good microSD socket. It has a lift and slide mechanism that holds the card as you close it. Such socket could be used for the next revision. Or perhaps the one used on the Activity Board.

    Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço
  • samuell wrote: »
    The Spinneret Web Server board has a pretty good microSD socket. It has a lift and slide mechanism that holds the card as you close it. Such socket could be used for the next revision. Or perhaps the one used on the Activity Board.

    Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço
    Those sockets take up a lot of board space although the ES has plenty to spare. I use the naked socket to save space in my P2D2 design. The other thing is that many different sockets seem to come and the footprints all vary but these Molex sockets seem to be in good and steady supply.


    Tachyon Forth - compact, fast, forthwright and interactive
    useforthlogo-s.png
    --->CLICK THE LOGO for more links<---
    P2 +++++ TAQOZ INTRO & LINKS +++++ P2 SHORTFORM DATASHEET
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  • "We suspect that ALMA will allow us to observe this rare form of CO in many other discs.
    By doing that, we can more accurately measure their mass, and determine whether
    scientists have systematically been underestimating how much matter they contain."
  • I just completed a set of ES breakouts for VGA, serial, the Olimex ENC28J60 ethernet module, and dual PS/2. They are laid out on an ExpressPCB MiniBoard so you get 3 sets for about $52 and they are designed to be separated with a nibbling tool. The VGA and serial are tested; I have no software yet to try out the others. These are functions not planned for the Parallax accessory set. The zip contains the ExpressPCB schematic and pcb files.
    5312 x 2988 - 5M
    5312 x 2988 - 5M
  • Very Nice! You get to play before Parallax release their boards.
    Infernal Machine
  • P2-ES Eval Protoboard Add-on
    https://www.parallax.com/product/64005-es

    P2-ES Eval Board Accessory Set
    https://www.parallax.com/product/64006-es
  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 13,480
    edited 2019-01-26 - 01:11:24
    (deleted)

  • DavidZemonDavidZemon Posts: 2,817
    edited 2019-01-26 - 06:23:45
    David Betz wrote: »
    VonSzarvas wrote: »
    P2-ES Eval Protoboard Add-on
    https://www.parallax.com/product/64005-es

    P2-ES Eval Board Accessory Set
    https://www.parallax.com/product/64006-es
    These boards look cool but after spending $150 on the P2-Eval I think I'll hold off on more P2-related purchases for now.

    Yea.... I'm not thrilled about having shelled out $250 for the privilege of volunteering to help build tools for a for-profit business.

    -- Edit --

    Post edited to reflect Mike's astute observation.
    David
    PropWare: C++ HAL (Hardware Abstraction Layer) for PropGCC; Robust build system using CMake; Integrated Simple Library, libpropeller, and libPropelleruino (Arduino port); Instructions for Eclipse and JetBrain's CLion; Example projects; Doxygen documentation
    CI Server: https://ci.zemon.name?guest=1
  • DavidZemon wrote: »
    David Betz wrote: »
    VonSzarvas wrote: »
    P2-ES Eval Protoboard Add-on
    https://www.parallax.com/product/64005-es

    P2-ES Eval Board Accessory Set
    https://www.parallax.com/product/64006-es
    These boards look cool but after spending $150 on the P2-Eval I think I'll hold off on more P2-related purchases for now.

    Yea.... I'm not thrilled about having shelled out $250 for the privilege of volunteering to help build tools for a for-profit business.

    Funny, I am. Thinking of the time I spend reading all the P2 posts in the last 10 years, even with a modest pay of $1 per hour I would be rich!

    This thing is so much fun to program and since I am not very good at soldering these eval add-ons are a god send to me.

    Enjoy!

    Mike
    I am just another Code Monkey.
    A determined coder can write COBOL programs in any language. -- Author unknown.
    Press any key to continue, any other key to quit

    The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this post are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119.
  • DavidZemon wrote: »
    David Betz wrote: »
    VonSzarvas wrote: »
    P2-ES Eval Protoboard Add-on
    https://www.parallax.com/product/64005-es

    P2-ES Eval Board Accessory Set
    https://www.parallax.com/product/64006-es
    These boards look cool but after spending $150 on the P2-Eval I think I'll hold off on more P2-related purchases for now.

    Yea.... I'm not thrilled about having shelled out $250 for the privilege of volunteering to help build tools for a for-profit business.

    David, PM me and I will send you my set.
    Infernal Machine
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 9,716
    edited 2019-01-26 - 00:02:16
    I've dreamed of chipmas for years and don't mind paying...
    So much power in my hands now, I don't know where to start...
    It's actually useful to have several P2Eval boards with the same peripheral to test things out...

    I though at first the Parallax email implied there were more P2Eval boards for sale too, but I guess that's not the case...
    Prop Info and Apps: http://www.rayslogic.com/
  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 13,480
    edited 2019-01-26 - 01:11:03
    (deleted)
  • And placed my order for the Parallax set. Considering that Parallax has invested over $5 million in this project, I will not begrudge them $250 for the privilege of getting in on the ground floor, an opportunity I missed when P1 was introduced. I made my breakout set because I have about 200 existing installations based on RS232, VGA, PS/2, and ENC28J60 based ethernet, so I ultimately need those functions for legacy compatibility even if better alternatives such as HDMI and USB HID are possible with P2. RS232 is extremely important to me because much of my entire industry runs on serial and probably will for some time, again for legacy reasons. I am also wondering what the go-to Ethernet solution will be for P2. With 512K RAM instead of just 32K P2 is in a much better position to use the ENC28J60 without using up all the RAM before you start coding an application, but it does require quite a bit of coding, particularly if you want TCP, and I am personally way behind the curve for being able to actually write P2 code of any sort. On the other hand, the enhanced performance of P2 might make coding the whole thing in Spin practical rather than using the PASM driver common to Harrison's ethernet OBEX offerings. I'm all ears if there are any suggestions as to how to use my spiffy new ethernet and PS/2 breakouts.
  • Additional thought: When the silicon is respun, it might be useful to have a final stage product compatible with the ES and its headers but featuring the actual production P2 available. I had a bit of a fond spot in my heart for the SpinStudio, but with only four header connectors it was rather limiting. For a lot of applications the ES and header breakouts will be quite adequate for a lot of rapid development scenarios, without the jumper wiring headaches of the P1 PPDB.
  • localroger wrote: »
    Additional thought: When the silicon is respun, it might be useful to have a final stage product compatible with the ES and its headers but featuring the actual production P2 available. I had a bit of a fond spot in my heart for the SpinStudio, but with only four header connectors it was rather limiting. For a lot of applications the ES and header breakouts will be quite adequate for a lot of rapid development scenarios, without the jumper wiring headaches of the P1 PPDB.

    As often I agree with you. I do like the ES board as it is, but @Peter Jakacki complained about long traces and looking at it, it has long traces everywhere, a piece of art, but maybe not the go to design for a P2 project board. I also miss 3.3V and even 1.8 volt on the header, providing just 5V seems to be a oversight, having a regulator on every attachment makes not really sense...

    Enjoy!

    Mike
    I am just another Code Monkey.
    A determined coder can write COBOL programs in any language. -- Author unknown.
    Press any key to continue, any other key to quit

    The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this post are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119.
  • TubularTubular Posts: 3,683
    edited 2019-01-26 - 03:39:12
    There is 3v3 on the header, in addition to 5v.

    No 1v8, but Chip indicated 1v8 would be a fair bit slower / weaker than 3v3, if used for digital i/o at the pins.



  • DavidZemonDavidZemon Posts: 2,817
    edited 2019-01-26 - 06:23:00
    msrobots wrote: »
    DavidZemon wrote: »
    David Betz wrote: »
    VonSzarvas wrote: »
    P2-ES Eval Protoboard Add-on
    https://www.parallax.com/product/64005-es

    P2-ES Eval Board Accessory Set
    https://www.parallax.com/product/64006-es
    These boards look cool but after spending $150 on the P2-Eval I think I'll hold off on more P2-related purchases for now.

    Yea.... I'm not thrilled about having shelled out $250 for the privilege of volunteering to help build tools for a for-profit business.

    Funny, I am. Thinking of the time I spend reading all the P2 posts in the last 10 years, even with a modest pay of $1 per hour I would be rich!

    This thing is so much fun to program and since I am not very good at soldering these eval add-ons are a god send to me.

    Enjoy!

    Mike
    Publison wrote: »
    DavidZemon wrote: »
    David Betz wrote: »
    VonSzarvas wrote: »
    P2-ES Eval Protoboard Add-on
    https://www.parallax.com/product/64005-es

    P2-ES Eval Board Accessory Set
    https://www.parallax.com/product/64006-es
    These boards look cool but after spending $150 on the P2-Eval I think I'll hold off on more P2-related purchases for now.

    Yea.... I'm not thrilled about having shelled out $250 for the privilege of volunteering to help build tools for a for-profit business.

    David, PM me and I will send you my set.

    This reminds me, quite vividly, of my post to the "I want a P2! ...." thread when I was one of a mere handful of people (2? 3? maybe 4?) to say that I was interested in a free board.

    Mike is absolutely right. I've very much enjoyed my time working with the P1 over the years and I credit my time working with it (developing PropWare) for getting me all three of the jobs that I've had post-graduation. Paying $250 for a hobby that I'll enjoy for many years to come while also investing in my continuing education shouldn't even register as a drop in the budget bucket.

    Someone once told me that sometimes, you just have to stop looking at the world from a purely "logical" viewpoint. Whether my earlier view was logical or not, I will try much harder to view the world through Mike's eyes.

    Oh, and to be perfectly clear, I had already purchased the set of add-on boards prior to posting my comment above.
    David
    PropWare: C++ HAL (Hardware Abstraction Layer) for PropGCC; Robust build system using CMake; Integrated Simple Library, libpropeller, and libPropelleruino (Arduino port); Instructions for Eclipse and JetBrain's CLion; Example projects; Doxygen documentation
    CI Server: https://ci.zemon.name?guest=1
  • Tubular wrote: »
    There is 3v3 on the header, in addition to 5v.

    No 1v8, but Chip indicated 1v8 would be a fair bit slower / weaker than 3v3, if used for digital i/o at the pins

    uups, yes, you are right.

    My bad.

    Mike
    I am just another Code Monkey.
    A determined coder can write COBOL programs in any language. -- Author unknown.
    Press any key to continue, any other key to quit

    The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this post are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119.
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 10,962
    edited 2019-01-26 - 21:04:26
    localroger wrote: »
    I just completed a set of ES breakouts for VGA, serial, the Olimex ENC28J60 ethernet module, and dual PS/2. They are laid out on an ExpressPCB MiniBoard so you get 3 sets for about $52 and they are designed to be separated with a nibbling tool. The VGA and serial are tested; I have no software yet to try out the others. These are functions not planned for the Parallax accessory set. The zip contains the ExpressPCB schematic and pcb files.

    I hope you cleaned up the bottom layer before sending it off. :)

    I'm sure you did. i may just do an order for some backups.
    749 x 510 - 220K
    Infernal Machine
  • Um, Publison, I don't know what happened there but it definitely happened after you downloaded; I just downloaded my own zip onto a computer that it's never been on and opened it, and everything is fine.
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 10,962
    edited 2019-01-26 - 23:02:27
    localroger wrote: »
    Um, Publison, I don't know what happened there but it definitely happened after you downloaded; I just downloaded my own zip onto a computer that it's never been on and opened it, and everything is fine.

    I'll try it again.

    EDIT: Another download on another computer produced the correct results.
    Infernal Machine
  • Peter JakackiPeter Jakacki Posts: 8,641
    edited 2019-01-29 - 01:12:14
    Are the gerbers and component ID overlay files available for this board? I may want to modify parts of it as I have already done to improve operation, specifically I am concerned about the trace capacitance. Even at 180MHz I find the clock line to the SD affected badly as the capture shows.
    btw - I can successfully CMD8 even at 300MHz but a sector read fails well before that.

    Send out a CMD8 (with CRC) and read the response.
    TAQOZ# $87 sdcrc C! $1AA 8 CMD 1 = IF SD4@ .W THEN --- $01AA ok

    The scope shows the SD clock line at 180MHz where it still operates (just). (MOSI MISO labels swapped)

    Tachyon Forth - compact, fast, forthwright and interactive
    useforthlogo-s.png
    --->CLICK THE LOGO for more links<---
    P2 +++++ TAQOZ INTRO & LINKS +++++ P2 SHORTFORM DATASHEET
    P1 +++++ Latest Tachyon includes EASYFILE +++++ Tachyon Forth News Blog
    Brisbane, Australia
  • evanhevanh Posts: 7,880
    edited 2019-01-29 - 02:15:30
    Looks like I'm in the market for a new P2ES-EVAL board. Anyone want to give one up? :hopeful:
    EDIT: Oh, or just a P2ES chip should do it!
    "We suspect that ALMA will allow us to observe this rare form of CO in many other discs.
    By doing that, we can more accurately measure their mass, and determine whether
    scientists have systematically been underestimating how much matter they contain."
  • The diptrace file is certainly available, and can easily generate gerbers from there

    The shielding is really good, but of course this creates more capacitance.

    Your CRO cap didn't look terrible, I'm surprised that's not working
  • The capture works but shows what the clock is starting to look like at 180MHz and while CMD8 works even at 300MHz, it fails on the faster sector reads. But I suppose that this might be going OT so I will start another thread.

    Tachyon Forth - compact, fast, forthwright and interactive
    useforthlogo-s.png
    --->CLICK THE LOGO for more links<---
    P2 +++++ TAQOZ INTRO & LINKS +++++ P2 SHORTFORM DATASHEET
    P1 +++++ Latest Tachyon includes EASYFILE +++++ Tachyon Forth News Blog
    Brisbane, Australia
  • I have a P2-ES board.
    When I power the board through the PC USB connector, I have no problems.
    I have a wall-wart adapter that I have been using to power through the P2 USB connector. Suddenly the Board stops working when I plug in the AC Adapter.
    The adapter says output 5V @2000mA. When I read the voltage at the connecter (dis_connected) it reads 5.4vDC.

    When I plug in just the PC USB connector, I read 5V at all the 5V header pins.
    When I add the AC adapter, those pins now read only 2.11V.

    When I unplug the AC Adapter, everything is fine again.

    My Question: Have I broken something on my P2-ES? I can't troubleshoot this any further. Should I send the board back to Parallax for diagnosis?

    Any suggestions?
  • If you use only the wall-wart whilst the pc usb is unplugged, does that change the voltage at the 5V headers?
  • VonSzarvas wrote: »
    If you use only the wall-wart whilst the pc usb is unplugged, does that change the voltage at the 5V headers?

    With only the wall-wart, the headers measure 2.1V.
  • Thanks, that helps diagnose.

    Sounds like the left side usb power switch has half-blown, or the diode mod next to it needs some rework.

    Either way they'll need a lab fix. If thats something you'd want to do, I could share instructions. Otherwise, best to contact Parallax support and see about returning it for diagnosis. I'll send a headsup to the engineer that'll handle it.
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