I want a P2! And how are we going to get these to you?

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Comments

  • I reckon I ought to be moved to Ym2413a's "B" list. At best, I could help wring out the tools or contribute to OBEX2.
    Re-inventing the wheel is not a waste of time if, when you are done, you understand why it is round.
  • jmgjmg Posts: 12,445
    edited November 2 Vote Up0Vote Down
    Heater. wrote: »
    I'd like to think that Spin is Spin and that Spin code from the P1 will build and run just fine on the P2.
    That depends on how you define Spin.

    If you mean no-hardware access, language flow only, then yes, there will be a Spin flavour that is P1/P2 portable.
    I believe fastspin has collected the stated Spin-P2 extras, and supports both P1 and P2.

    of course, if you include any hardware access at all, other than simple pin-io, then no, 'Spin code from the P1 will not build and run just fine on the P2'

    The good news, is the new version do support conditionals, so one source file could support more than one host.
    Likewise for the fastspin-Basic/FreeBASIC, that is also supporting conditionals to allow test-on-PCs and Run-on-P2 type development.
  • jmgjmg Posts: 12,445
    edited November 2 Vote Up0Vote Down
    localroger wrote: »
    ... If I develop something cool and put it in the OBEX or whatever takes its place, I want everybody who owns a propeller based product to be able to load, edit, play with, and download it to their board.

    Keep in mind, that P2 will have many more clock source / clock run choices than P1 (or Ardunio), so the edit part of that will always be there.

  • Heater. wrote: »
    I'd like to think that Spin is Spin and that Spin code from the P1 will build and run just fine on the P2.

    I have no idea if that is on the table or not.

    The PASM part will need to be translated.

    Otherwise, fastspin (at least) can compile the same Spin code from P1 for P2.
  • Yikes.

    I lurk here almost every day.
    Please put me on the list as well.

    I am good with feedback on testing programs.
    I would really like to assist with getting USB working.
  • whicker wrote: »
    I lurk here almost every day.
    Please put me on the list as well.

    I added you onto the list.

    Don't feel bad, I've been lurking this P2 forum regularly for close to a decade.
    Just held back until hardware was more finalized. : ]
  • jmg,

    I can quite understand that hardware dependent parts of Spin programs would not work directly on the P2. Such problems have existed on all micro-controllers since the dawn of time.

    I can also appreciate that Spin code without any assembler in it should be directly usable on the P2. As is the case with moving C or other high level language code from machine to machine.

    The crunch however is that PASM is also Spin. High level Spin and PASM are all integrated into the same source files. A Spin compliant compiler / IDE has to be able to handle the assembler parts as well.

    As far as I can tell no Spin object that has assembler parts will be usable on the P2 without extensive modification. Even if it does not use peripheral hardware features.
  • Please add me to the list to buy a P2.
  • Ym2413a wrote: »
    Updated the list:

    83 People have asked.
    Some asked for multiplies so the total requested P2s comes out to: 96

    People who've asked: (First Round Contribution - Drivers, DevTools, Hardware Testing)
    whicker
    zappman
    garryj
    Heater.
    78rpm
    Ahle2
    Ale
    Amaral
    Bean x2
    Bob Lawrence (VE1RLL)
    Cluso99
    Coley
    Dave Hein
    DaveJenson x2
    David Betz
    DavidZemon
    Ding-Batty x2
    DiverBob
    Electrodude
    Jim Fouch x2
    John Abshier x2
    Jon_Thomasson
    K2
    LeoD x2
    MByron x2
    Mickster
    Mike Green
    PropGuy2
    Publison
    Rayman x2
    Roy Eltham
    Seairth
    T Chap
    Teva McMillan x2
    TonyB_
    TrapperBob
    Tubular
    Whit
    Ym2413a
    __red__
    avsa242
    banjo
    cheezus x2
    ctwardell
    dgately
    evanh
    fixmax x2
    fpalmans
    frank freedman
    hkiela
    ikemschn
    iseries
    jac_goudsmit
    jmg
    ke4pjw
    marrokev x2
    marsman2020
    msrobots
    octetta
    pedward x2
    pik33
    pmrobert x2
    potatohead
    rjo__ x2
    rosco_pc
    samuell
    thej
    ti85
    tritonium
    tw1
    twm47099
    veluxllc


    People who've asked: (Will Contribute Later, Applications, Products, Etc)
    JRetSapDoog
    AntoineDoinel
    R Baggett
    Ramon
    Tor
    wmosscrop
    Genetix
    kwinn
    MJB
    localroger
    tomcrawford

    I can't find myself here in the list
    Propeller Object Exchange (last Publications / Updates) --- Oldbitcollector's guest map
    JustForMe
  • I see that I am listed for 2 boards. One will be sufficient. Also I expect to buy the board, got get a free one.

    John Abshier
  • Heater. wrote: »
    As far as I can tell no Spin object that has assembler parts will be usable on the P2 without extensive modification. Even if it does not use peripheral hardware features.

    Funny you should mention that.

    On more than one occasion I have considered building a test harness for code in the OBEX (much like cpantesters.org) to attempt to do some kind of validation specifically with a view for getting an idea of coverage for P2.

    With hardware of course that gains additional complications.
  • The thing about a standard IDE isn't that it will be the one everybody uses. Obviously a lot of people here went to BST, etc. and never looked back. But you want a standard platform so that the people doing those OTHER platforms know what they are targeting too. BST works partly because it can run the same code as PropTool, only better. People using other enviros, like those using Peter's Forth, know they have to convert from Spin to use the OBEX standard code. Which is cool. They have a consistent starting point. There are other dev platforms for Arduino, but everyone knows you start with sketches and that's what has made it successful. With the switch to C, there is no longer a consistent starting point for people looking for functionality in the OBEX, and that's become a very bad thing.

    There also needs to be a standard dev board. It's early days, but for many years for P1 it was the DemoBoard and many OBEX objects were meant to just work on a DemoBoard; even if you're using different hardware that gives you a simple and consistent way to work with the object before you start treating it like taffy. I think it's very obvious that the P2 version of the DB needs HDMI, since VGA is rapidly becoming the new NTSC. It might be that the P2 version of this basic intro platform is something like the quickstart + human interface board, which is actually a nice combination; I wish it had been ready to go before the DB disappeared.
  • Fastspin does already compile P1 spin for the P2 and using ifdef &co does/can load different sub-objects and/or PASM dat blocks.

    Spin2cpp can convert Spin1 to c or c++ so converting existing spin objects to c/c++ for use in Blockly or with gcc is already working.

    converting PASM1 to PASM2 seems also doable, there is already a thread here by @Cluso99 with tips and tricks to do so, but I think converting bitbanging PASM1 to bitbanging PASM2 is completely ignoring the smartpins and might not be sensible to do.

    On the other hand trying to write a PASM1/Propeller1/P1V emulator running on a P2 with xbyte may be possible and could, combined with some adapter-board, open a upgrade path for stressed p1 projects.

    As for IDEs, I personally love them, but everybody has his preferences there, some swear on Clion, some really like Eclipse(!?!), I am using VisualStudio since about 20ish years and even use it to write COBOL source. There are even people loving VisualCode or things like sublime, Atom and cmd-scripts to automate the development cycle.

    So I would prefer to have all needed tools in command line form, so that they are usable from any IDE you like. But at that point the multitude should tamper down.

    I found it very annoying to have Spin-Source not running in the PropTool, you need to use BST or Homespun. And even since the Parallax supported Spin compiler from Roy does support ifdefs, the Parallax PropTool does not use it. There is also simpleIDE and PropellerIDE using different loaders and compilers, it is basically a disaster.

    Same goes for the loaders. PropTool has one, PropGCC now two (with and without WX and/or two stage loader), Pnut has its own one and P2load also exist somewhere in that mix.

    For me this is already quite confusing. And I am a longtime fan of Parallax. I read the forum almost religiously. But how should a new member coming from the Arduino side of thing figure out to go to www.fnarfbargle.com/bst.html to find BST?

    quite confusing, all of that,

    Mike
    I am just another Code Monkey.
    A determined coder can write COBOL programs in any language. -- Author unknown.
    Press any key to continue, any other key to quit

    The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this post are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119.
  • msrobots,
    I found it very annoying to have Spin-Source not running in the PropTool, you need to use BST or Homespun.
    I know what you mean. But I think we can say that "Spin Source" is defined by whatever the PropTool does. There is no other formal definition.

    As such, whatever required BST or HomeSpun to build was not "Spin Source"

    But that is just me being pedantic.
    So I would prefer to have all needed tools in command line form, so that they are usable from any IDE you like.
    Yes please. An IDE is just a glorified editor. What you need is the simplest way to turn source code into executables.

  • Personally, I think the Prop Tool is great.
    But, sounds like Prop Tool 2 isn't in the cards...

    I think my SpinEdit could be made into a replacement, just don't know if I'd have the time to do it...
    Prop Info and Apps: http://www.rayslogic.com/
  • I mentioned that I would like to purchase a couple of boards when the P2 silicon first showed life.
    I guess I need to do the same here:

    Kbash -- 1 board at least. 2-3 if possible.

    ( I'd rather leave boards for others who will do testing, but will purchase more when available.)


  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 14,165
    edited November 3 Vote Up0Vote Down
    Rayman wrote: »
    Personally, I think the Prop Tool is great.
    But, sounds like Prop Tool 2 isn't in the cards...

    I think my SpinEdit could be made into a replacement, just don't know if I'd have the time to do it...

    I use PropTool to edit my P2 PASM source, then save as .spin2, then re-open in pnut, compile and load.

    What i'd like is if pnut could open and compile .spin files too, but I haven't asked Chip. ooh, it does :smiley:
    My Prop boards: P8XBlade2, RamBlade, CpuBlade, TriBlade
    Prop OS (also see Sphinx, PropDos, PropCmd, Spinix)
    Website: www.clusos.com
    Prop Tools (Index) , Emulators (Index) , ZiCog (Z80)
  • Please put me down for one to purchase as an early adopter.
  • Ym2413aYm2413a Posts: 595
    edited November 7 Vote Up0Vote Down
    Seeing that these beta chips are pretty much sold out before even being packaged is a good sign for Parallax.
    There was a lot of lurkers in the forum waiting for silicon, much like myself.

    Updated the list:

    91 People have asked.
    Some asked for multiplies so the total requested P2s comes out to: 103

    People who've asked: (First Round Contribution - Drivers, DevTools, Hardware Testing)
    RJSM
    ersmith
    kbash
    dMajo
    lostcauz
    whicker
    zappman
    garryj
    Heater.
    78rpm
    Ahle2
    Ale
    Amaral
    Bean x2
    Bob Lawrence (VE1RLL)
    Cluso99
    Coley
    Dave Hein
    DaveJenson x2
    DavidZemon
    Ding-Batty x2
    DiverBob
    Electrodude
    Jim Fouch
    John Abshier
    Jon_Thomasson
    K2
    LeoD x2
    MByron x2
    Mickster
    Mike Green
    PropGuy2
    Publison
    Rayman x2
    Roy Eltham
    Seairth
    T Chap
    Teva McMillan x2
    TonyB_
    TrapperBob
    Tubular
    Whit
    Ym2413a
    __red__
    avsa242
    banjo
    cheezus
    ctwardell
    dgately
    evanh
    fixmax x2
    fpalmans
    frank freedman
    hkiela
    ikemschn
    iseries
    jac_goudsmit
    jmg
    ke4pjw
    marrokev x2
    marsman2020
    msrobots
    octetta
    pedward x2
    pik33
    pmrobert x2
    potatohead
    rjo__ x2
    rosco_pc
    samuell
    thej
    ti85
    tritonium
    tw1
    twm47099
    veluxllc


    People who've asked: (Will Contribute Later, Applications, Products, Etc)
    JRetSapDoog
    AntoineDoinel
    R Baggett
    Ramon
    Tor
    wmosscrop
    Genetix
    kwinn
    MJB
    localroger
    tomcrawford
    jef_vt
    Keith Young
    W9GFO
    David Betz
  • Please also one for me. It's for developing a product. I have no problem paying for a devboard. Even the chip itself is also good. I have access to a production line.
    So I think the second list is good for me.
    thanks!
  • Put me on the list for one but as sort of last priority. I have a newborn and the amount of time I'll get on this probably means it's better to put that P2 in someone else's hands.

    We'd be testing this to see if we're going to teach with it and build curriculum for it etc.

    I want to stress again we'd be low priority to get one. Wish I could do more but can't commit a lot of time.
    Founder of Kinvert
    https://www.kinvert.com/
  • If there's a spare board I'd like to make sure my development tools (such as fastspin) work well with real hardware. Otherwise I'll make do with an FPGA version of the P2.
  • ersmith wrote: »
    If there's a spare board I'd like to make sure my development tools (such as fastspin) work well with real hardware. Otherwise I'll make do with an FPGA version of the P2.

    You need a board. You'll get one.
  • Ym2413a wrote: »
    ...Updated the list:

    87 People have asked.
    Some asked for multiplies so the total requested P2s comes out to: 99

    People who've asked: (First Round Contribution - Drivers, DevTools, Hardware Testing)
    W9GFO
    ...

    It's fun to be listed at the top but I would feel more comfortable being placed in the bottom group, my initial contribution will be coming up with an enclosure.
  • Ym2413a wrote: »
    Seeing that these beta chips are pretty much sold out before even being packaged is a good sign for Parallax.
    There was a lot of lurkers in the forum waiting for silicon, much like myself.

    Updated the list:

    87 People have asked.
    Some asked for multiplies so the total requested P2s comes out to: 99

    People who've asked: (First Round Contribution - Drivers, DevTools, Hardware Testing)
    W9GFO
    kbash
    dMajo
    lostcauz
    whicker
    zappman
    garryj
    Heater.
    78rpm
    Ahle2
    Ale
    Amaral
    Bean x2
    Bob Lawrence (VE1RLL)
    Cluso99
    Coley
    Dave Hein
    DaveJenson x2
    David Betz
    DavidZemon
    Ding-Batty x2
    DiverBob
    Electrodude
    Jim Fouch x2
    John Abshier
    Jon_Thomasson
    K2
    LeoD x2
    MByron x2
    Mickster
    Mike Green
    PropGuy2
    Publison
    Rayman x2
    Roy Eltham
    Seairth
    T Chap
    Teva McMillan x2
    TonyB_
    TrapperBob
    Tubular
    Whit
    Ym2413a
    __red__
    avsa242
    banjo
    cheezus x2
    ctwardell
    dgately
    evanh
    fixmax x2
    fpalmans
    frank freedman
    hkiela
    ikemschn
    iseries
    jac_goudsmit
    jmg
    ke4pjw
    marrokev x2
    marsman2020
    msrobots
    octetta
    pedward x2
    pik33
    pmrobert x2
    potatohead
    rjo__ x2
    rosco_pc
    samuell
    thej
    ti85
    tritonium
    tw1
    twm47099
    veluxllc


    People who've asked: (Will Contribute Later, Applications, Products, Etc)
    JRetSapDoog
    AntoineDoinel
    R Baggett
    Ramon
    Tor
    wmosscrop
    Genetix
    kwinn
    MJB
    localroger
    tomcrawford

    I'm fine with just a single P2 for the time being. I'll be (hopefully) working a lot of hours up to the coming holiday so development time may be a bit limited.
  • Maybe you should move me to the second list. I can probably do anything I need to do with the Prop123-A9 board that I already have as long as the FPGA image matches what is in the silicon. I'm not going to be doing any hardware interfacing. I spent money on the FPGA board. I may as well make use of it.
  • David Betz,
    I think you will likely be one helping with dev tools, so I think it's important you get a real chip earlier. There's enough differences between FPGA and the real thing that should be tested related to downloading/etc.
    I'm sure Ken and Chip would like everyone that will be working on dev tools of any kind to have one early.
  • Roy Eltham wrote: »
    David Betz,
    I think you will likely be one helping with dev tools, so I think it's important you get a real chip earlier. There's enough differences between FPGA and the real thing that should be tested related to downloading/etc.
    I'm sure Ken and Chip would like everyone that will be working on dev tools of any kind to have one early.

    That's right.
  • Ym2413a… Please add me to your list for the new P2 board. I’m a regular lurker here but have posted a few times before on these forums describing scientific instruments I’ve built using the Propeller and also regarding boosting memory using PSRAM (aka HyperRAM).

    Re the latter I’m currently working with an IS66WVH8M8ALL/BLL breakout board on a BeMicro-A2. It adds 8MB to a P2 FPGA emulation - the interface is implemented using the streamer/smart pins working co-operatively.

    I’m really keen to make a new version of this for the real Si, aiming to push up the clock speed (from the current 80 MHz), but I’ll also look at migrating to a companion 128 Mb = 16MB part having the same footprint.

    The P2 is going to be heaps of fun and will be awesome for several upcoming instrumentation projects. Congratulations to Chip, Ken and the Parallax team on their momentous achievement.
    3070 x 2052 - 3M
  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 10,173
    edited November 4 Vote Up0Vote Down
    "Heaps of fun" - That sounds like down-under talk. Do you guys realize that ALL of our prototype chips outside of Parallax are in Australia and New Zealand?
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