The Electric Car Has Come of Age

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  • DigitalBob,
    The technology is just not there yet for battery cars.
    Clearly it is here.

    During my summer long stay in California I saw Teslas all over the place. And other EVs.

    In Amsterdam pretty much all the taxis waiting at the airport were Teslas.

    Even arriving back in Helsinki there was a Tesla taxi waiting at the taxi rank.



  • MikeDYurMikeDYur Posts: 2,175
    edited September 13 Vote Up0Vote Down
    Heavily handed Publison strikes again.
  • msrobotsmsrobots Posts: 1,744
    edited September 13 Vote Up0Vote Down
    MikeDYur wrote: »
    Heavily handed Publison strikes again.

    @Publison is usually doing a very, very nice job to help out everyone here and keeping a lot of SPAM or unwanted Post out of these exceptional good and flame-free forums.

    If posts of you get deleted or sunk, you may consider that the content was not appropriate for this forum here. I am pretty sure that @Publision does not has some personal aversion against you or your posts.

    I also got hit by it, unnoticed by me I overstepped the boundary about politics/religion here, in my case religion.

    Well, I do understand the reasoning behind it, and - well - never made jokes here again touching religion. No need to and - hmm - does simply not belong here. I am fine with that.

    You MAY consider that approach to these forums also.

    Enjoy

    Mike

    I am just another Code Monkey.

    A determined coder can write COBOL programs in any language. -- Author unknown.

    The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this post are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119.
  • Battery technology is here when the range is 600 miles+ with full a/c running in the Arizona dessert. And a 10 minute full recharge time.(lights on )
  • And a seven year battery warranty unconditional
  • DigitalBob,
    Battery technology is here when the range is 600 miles+ with full a/c running in the Arizona dessert. And a 10 minute full recharge time.(lights on )
    I do appreciate what you mean there Bob. There are times when that kind of performance is required of a car.

    However, what you are describing is extreme. 99.999% [Note 1] of car usage does not require anything like such long range or fast charge.

    It's a bit like turning ones nose up to those early personal computers. To slow, not enough memory, no storage... Turns out that even with those limitations they were very useful to millions of people. And look where we are today.

    Ultimately this comes down to economics. Is this new fangled electric machine cheaper for me to buy than alternatives? Is it cheaper to run and maintain? If so, and it does the job for me, then you have a buyer.

  • MikeDYurMikeDYur Posts: 2,175
    edited September 13 Vote Up0Vote Down
    msrobots wrote: »

    If posts of you get deleted or sunk, you may consider that the content was not appropriate for this forum here.


    Well, I do understand the reasoning behind it, and - well - never made jokes here again touching religion. No need to and - hmm - does simply not belong here. I am fine with that.

    You MAY consider that approach to these forums also.

    Enjoy

    Mike

    My granddaughter is not appropriate or is not acceptable? Maybe you don't know the full extent of this matter.
  • Yes some people need to see the approach of these forums, some get away with more than others.
  • BTW: msrobots, I did not want to take this here.
  • Hello Publison!
  • MikeDYurMikeDYur Posts: 2,175
    edited September 13 Vote Up0Vote Down
    Sorry to the OP, my intention was not to take this thread off track.

    EDIT: done and forgotten.
  • PT Barnum said there's a sucker born every minute. That describes your average Tesla buyer in my opinion. I'd rather cruise around in my used Ferrari for 100k.
  • MikeDYur,

    Speaking as one who has nearly been banned from here a couple of times I have to say the moderators here do a very good job.

    I don't know what has upset you but I suspect it's not worth your taking so seriously.

  • Like a Ferrari f355 spider or California . And still have plenty of $$$$ left over for gas
  • DigitalBob,

    I'm not sure I'd describe Tesla buyers as suckers. The ones I have met are pretty smart. They have enough money that the premium on a Tesla is not much of a consideration. A Tesla is a lot more practical than a Ferrari in may situations.

    Assuming I had a 100K to burn on toys it's quite likely I'd go for an original Tesla Roadster for 50K. It's a gorgeous looking machine. It has good old fashioned instruments, not the wall to wall screens of new Tesla. It's a bit of a land mark in car history.

  • Heater. wrote: »
    MikeDYur,

    Speaking as one who has nearly been banned from here a couple of times I have to say the moderators here do a very good job.

    I don't know what has upset you but I suspect it's not worth your taking so seriously.

    No Heater, one circumstance dosent spoil this whole bunch of eggs. I charish my interaction on these forums, and I do my best to keep it on track and relative.
  • I'm sure the tire smoke from my 90k Lamborghini gallardo spyder would smell pretty good while your still sitting at the stop light in that tesla roadster . Not to mention how kool I look cruising down the boulevard with the top down.
  • Don't forget to stop at whole foods and charge your battery
  • I was following a Lamborghini once, in a long slow jam of traffic approaching the Dartford tunnel toll booths. It was one of those cars with the gull wing doors, a Countach I believe. When the Lambo got to the toll stop the driver could not throw his coins into the machine (We used money in those days), what with sitting so low and those damn doors being in the way. He had to get out to toss the money in. It was raining like hell, he got soaked. I giggled at the scene from the comfort of my Citroen BX 19 GTi.

    Now, this had taken so long that the tunnel had become free ahead of us, he was obviously pissed off because he put his foot down really hard as we entered the tunnel.

    I must admit that the sound of that Lambo's motor, full bore, reverberating in the tunnel was awe inspiring.

    The joy was short lived. Soon we were nose to tail again stuck in the endless London traffic jam.



  • DigitalBob,
    I'm sure the tire smoke from my 90k Lamborghini gallardo spyder would smell pretty good while your still sitting at the stop light in that tesla roadster
    Not so fast there Bob. Are you intending to jump the red light? :)

    As far as I can ascertain the Gallardo Spyder has a 0-60mph time of 4.5 seconds. The Tesla Roadster managed 3.7 to 4.6 depending on model.
    http://www.zeroto60times.com/

    So the race is on.

    Now, just let me finish saving up to buy the damn thing...




  • DigitalBob wrote: »
    The technology is just not there yet for battery cars. Maybe one day. It's like cel phones used to have NiCad's now the battery last all day
    I would argue that reality doesn't agree with you.. there are electric cars everywhere. At least where I live. And that doesn't include many Teslas, even though Tesla actually has a shop in town.

    And those that don't drive 100% electric go for hybrids, it seems.. and it's all transparent, you don't really notice until you look for the missing engine noise, and that cars parked at work places are plugged in. In Japan there are more charging stations than gasoline stations, which surprised me when I heard about it - to me it looked like there were gasoline stands everywhere. But when I started checking it was indeed the case - those charging stations aren't sticking out in the landscape like a gasoline station. And of course, even two or three years ago the hybrids or fully electric cars dominated the domestic Japanese market. After going forth and back between Japan and Norway I recently noticed that the electrics and hybrids have silently started to take over the market in Norway too - I didn't notice at first because this isn't about funny looking small electrics of yesteryear. Not even Teslas, as I mentioned before. Just cars, which happens to be electric.

  • DigitalBob wrote: »
    Battery technology is here when the range is 600 miles+ with full a/c running in the Arizona dessert. And a 10 minute full recharge time.(lights on )
    Hmm.. my gasoline car can't do that. Not even close. Too small fuel thank.

  • DigitalBob wrote: »
    Battery technology is here when the range is 600 miles+ with full a/c running in the Arizona dessert. And a 10 minute full recharge time.(lights on )
    Tor wrote: »
    DigitalBob wrote: »
    Battery technology is here when the range is 600 miles+ with full a/c running in the Arizona dessert. And a 10 minute full recharge time.(lights on )
    Hmm.. my gasoline car can't do that. Not even close. Too small fuel thank.

    (My usual rambling reply)

    But you can refuel - at many, many stations, in Arizona - in about 5 minutes. If it takes longer than 10 minutes to recharge, then how many recharging connections will be needed at a station along an interstate? How much will they have to charge (pun intended) to recoup their investment if they can only charge 30-40 vehicles a day per connection?

    I've driven the El Paso - Phoenix route (I-10, about 440 miles one way) many times. And only had to stop for gas once or twice (car got terrible mileage). There's not much in between.

    Side note: yes, I've seen The Thing, back about 1974.

    If you run out of gas, AAA can bring you more.

    Out of electricity? Now what? Tow?

    I used to work for a company that maintained equipment across the Southwest. It was not unusual for a car to accumulate 2-3K miles in a week. Lots of small counties/towns in the middle of nowhere.

    When the infrastructure (charging/battery replacement) is there... and not just in the big cities, but everywhere, then maybe 200 or so miles on a charge would work.

    And it will be... eventually. And I do look forward to it.

    But it's not there now.

    Tulsa, OK

    My OBEX objects:
    AGEL: Another Google Earth Logger
    DHT11 Sensor

    I didn't do it... and I promise not to do it again!
  • KeithEKeithE Posts: 883
    edited September 13 Vote Up0Vote Down
    Heater. wrote: »
    DigitalBob,
    During my summer long stay in California I saw Teslas all over the place. And other EVs.

    I believe that a lot of that was motivated by the carpool sticker program.

    I commented on the low price Erco mentioned for a used Leaf earlier in this thread, then last night talked to someone who picked on up for a measly $7k. Right here in the Silicon Valley. So now I'll have to look into it as a potential commute vehicle.

    That ~70 miles of range has got to make life exciting!

    Some Leafs are priced so low on CL that I wouldn't be surprised if a forum member bought one as spare parts for a robot ;-)
  • ercoerco Posts: 18,482
    edited September 13 Vote Up0Vote Down
    Dude disassembles a 500V Leaf battery with a chisel, to make a battery for his pickup truck. Hey Vern, what's more dangerous for us shadetree mechanics, HV batteries or gasoline?

    "When you make a thing, a thing that is new, it is so complicated making it that it is bound to be ugly. But those that make it after you, they don’t have to worry about making it. And they can make it pretty, and so everybody can like it when others make it after you."

    - Pablo Picasso
  • The Tesla has a slight edge off the line up to about 40 mph after that it's in the dust. Those are the real numbers. The Tesla doesn't have a transmission only an induction motor with a fixed gear ratio. So nothing more than a three phase motor with a VFD drive. How much battery life do you think you have left after a few 1/4 mile hard acceleration runs. Where the Lambo would still be sitting at better than 3/4 of a tank. The Tesla 200+ mile range is based on optimal conditions.
    I rest my case.
  • I wonder how well does the heat work in extreme cold conditions like Iceland or Norway. Probably as well as an old VW beetle.
  • Bob,

    You will have to specify the rules of the race. The Tesla quit likely beats the Gallardo at 0 to 60, see above. What about a quarter mile? No idea. Something else? No idea.

    I do love the idea of a lack of transmission. KISS and all that. A lot less maintenance issues.

    It get's pretty chilly around here. Minus 20C and worse in the winter. There has been a couple of Tesla working as taxis without such heating issues for a couple of years now.

  • Meanwhile...

    Samsung is going gung-ho on it's new battery technology: https://electrek.co/2017/09/13/samsung-electric-car-batteries-range/

    Now, where can I get those 2170 cells from?

  • You know those range claims are optimal conditions. When you run it hard it drops the range just like running a gas engine hard reduces the gas mileage. It's all relative more demand more energy required.
    The Lamborghini really rockets ahead in a quarter mile after 45-50 mph. The Tesla has a good launch with it's no gear shifting.
    The Tesla's heat comes off the battery pack. Not sure if there's an assist heating element. Seems like a heating element would b a kW killer.
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