Cycling Champion generator control module useing BS2 detect 12v start\stop gen. batt. chargers

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  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 7,482
    The method I have used to detect voltage just fails. The 219's may work for low amp applications. They don't work for high amp 12 volts.

    Volts are volts regardless of the amperage. To measure battery voltage in a high current situation you need to measure it as close to the battery as possible. Even heavy gauge wires have some resistance, and each connection some, which will cause a drop in voltage as you measure further away from the battery. A connection right on the battery posts would be ideal.
    In science there is no authority. There is only experiment.
    Life is unpredictable. Eat dessert first.
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 7,482
    .......
    I think the combined amperage of eight 12 volt batteries is just too many amps for the Adafruit INA219 current sensors.

    That is why we are only measuring the voltage using the 219, since that is all that that is needed for this application.

    The current could be measured, but it would need a much higher power sensing resistor in the load circuit.
    In science there is no authority. There is only experiment.
    Life is unpredictable. Eat dessert first.
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 7,482
    The other option would be to change the code to "11700 millivolts".
    because 11.7 volts is below the 12 volt wall adapter powering the BS2.

    ???????? As long as the voltage from the wall adapter is high enough for the regulator to provide a stable 5V for the BS2 (approx. 7V or more) the voltage has nothing to do with the code running on the BS2 or measuring the voltage on the INA219 Vin+.
    In science there is no authority. There is only experiment.
    Life is unpredictable. Eat dessert first.
  • DPST relays how do i direct wire it to the BS2??
  • kwinn wrote: »
    I think its time to explore other options. Maybe a direct wire to the BS2?
    I agree, already suggested that in my last post. Now that I have access to the generator manual I can figure out how to do that.
    The BS2 cannot directly switch high amp relays.
    Three p.c. board micro 1 amp 12 volt relays to connect the coils to ground on three high amp relays.
    I think that would work.
    That's one option, and probably the simplest. The other is to use a relay driver that can drive the coils.
    Problem is how do I shut down the runaway magneto ignition system?

    I can shut that "battery switch" off and it will stay running
    I'm sure we can find a solution to that problem.

    Kwinn if u can figure out a way to wire DPST relays to a relay driver on the BS2 I'm ready to start over
  • I tried to wire it directly to the VLZ voltage detection relays . 12.3 started it an the generator ran for 13min an shut down at what it thought was 13.3volts If I set the EAZY relay at 14.2 for the stop value it just runs forever
  • Inverter manufacturer says I should be useing 4 aut gauge cables I am waiting for package with new cables Then I will start more tests
  • I melted a plastic base on a 500 amp fuse holder located between inverter positive an the battery
  • Waiting for several packages
  • Two inch 00 gauge cable got hot Needed to have 0000 gauge cable 12 inch long at inverter
  • Too many electrons speeding up an slowing down in different size cables
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 7,482
    Two inch 00 gauge cable got hot Needed to have 0000 gauge cable 12 inch long at inverter

    Keep in mind that while 3500 Watts at 120V is only 29.17 Amps, the same 3500 Watts at 12V is 291.7 Amps. That's a lot of current and requires a hefty cable.
    In science there is no authority. There is only experiment.
    Life is unpredictable. Eat dessert first.
  • Do not purchase products from EAZY relay company !! They manufacture poor quality products
  • Often ebay or Amazon shipped from China or hongkong Electronic hobbyist beware VLZ dual relay with voltage detection is not quality I just had two of these fail. One just got hot. Both activated the relays immediately opon power on regardless of the programming The most recent purchase of 3 from a separate online vender The EAZY 2.3 will not change logic gates opon user button entry The 2.3 has intermittent operation while jammed in voltage detection mode manualzilla has detailed schematics\ instructions Received refund wasted time
  • FRM01 better quality
  • The BS2 has left the mouser project box Too many inconsistent starts with the 219's. If the curse doesn't follow I will try new quality red boards. I think the curse maybe the high amps from 8 batteries. Nonetheless i will try VMM01's to activate FRM01's. Hopefully the red boards will live. If anyone has a hardware solution for the BS2 i would go get the Elvis back to do the show. Thanks
  • kwinn wrote: »
    Two inch 00 gauge cable got hot Needed to have 0000 gauge cable 12 inch long at inverter

    Keep in mind that while 3500 Watts at 120V is only 29.17 Amps, the same 3500 Watts at 12V is 291.7 Amps. That's a lot of current and requires a hefty cable.

    Right ,that's why theBS2 works for you Kwinn.It works for your 12volts because you dont have 7 more 12volt batteries to give your BS2 the same amps . There just has to be a piece of hardware missing
  • If anyone can find that hardware I will go buy it an retest {the Kwinn coded, duel relay activates 2 FRM01's BS2& 219's} in my rv.
  • I think the positive from the batteries needs to go through a shunt resistor before the 219. What value I do not know.
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 7,482
    The BS2 has left the mouser project box Too many inconsistent starts with the 219's. If the curse doesn't follow I will try new quality red boards. I think the curse maybe the high amps from 8 batteries. Nonetheless i will try VMM01's to activate FRM01's. Hopefully the red boards will live. If anyone has a hardware solution for the BS2 i would go get the Elvis back to do the show. Thanks

    I suspect the problem of many inconsistent starts may be due to electrical noise from the generator or loads connected to the batteries. The INA's do not measure the current, but the high currents from loads connected to the batteries will cause the voltage to fluctuate as they switch on and off. It would be a big help if we could log the voltages over an entire battery charge/discharge cycle. The data is sent from the BS2 to the PC so that can be done using a terminal emulator on your PC.
    In science there is no authority. There is only experiment.
    Life is unpredictable. Eat dessert first.
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 7,482
    kwinn wrote: »
    Two inch 00 gauge cable got hot Needed to have 0000 gauge cable 12 inch long at inverter

    Keep in mind that while 3500 Watts at 120V is only 29.17 Amps, the same 3500 Watts at 12V is 291.7 Amps. That's a lot of current and requires a hefty cable.

    Right ,that's why theBS2 works for you Kwinn.It works for your 12volts because you dont have 7 more 12volt batteries to give your BS2 the same amps . There just has to be a piece of hardware missing

    Adding/replacing hardware at random (shotgunning) will not help. If anything we need to simplify the hardware. The BS2 controlling relays connected in parallel to the generator switches and fob is all that is needed. I know that this works because I have done it for an old generator using a propeller board a few years back. It may require some noise filtering for the BS2 and INA's to make it work well.
    In science there is no authority. There is only experiment.
    Life is unpredictable. Eat dessert first.
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 7,482
    I think the positive from the batteries needs to go through a shunt resistor before the 219. What value I do not know.

    The shunt resistor is only needed if we want to measure the current to/from the batteries. While that would be nice to do it is not necessary for this application. The shunt resistor value is simple to calculate.
    R = 0.32/Imax, so if the maximum current is 320 Amps the shunt resistor would have to be 0.32 / 320 = 0.001 ohms at 102.4 Watts.

    IOW a shunt resistor is impractical. A hall effect sensor is a better choice.
    In science there is no authority. There is only experiment.
    Life is unpredictable. Eat dessert first.
  • Hello Kwinn ,sorry I have taken so long to post in the forum. I m having difficulty logging in. I have achieved the project goal with .._.._.._.._.Two EAZY single relay 2.3version with voltage detection relays ,FRM01 timer relay and the Champion generator remote with a voltage divider . I figuered out the EAZY programming . The generator started by itself at bank voltage of 11.8 volts after an longer than anticipated inverter cycle. Generator shut down by itself after I reduced the a\c load. If I run the rooftop aircond when generator is started it will hold bank voltage at 12volts running infinitely . When load is reduced the generator was shut down at 13.6volts. Iam currently writing down the voltage times and loads.
  • The generator now chases the batteries . The batteries will not discharge lower than 12volts on a hot day. However the tradeoff for the quiet time is a constently running generator . If the air cond is left running after the generator has started then it won't fully charge the batteries . The thermal dynamics of the wooden aluminum rv is so poor that it gets the outside estreem temps inless than 30 minutes . There is more improvements to be made here. I just got new 0000gauge cable to install. Copper busssbar ect ect. I am wondering if I should add to the exsisting cable or just replacee w 0000??/?
  • Re: Kwinn's schematic showing a "common ground": BE CAREFUL how you connect to this common ground. You DO NOT want MOSFET load current flowing through the logic ground circuit. The correct way to wire them is shown here:

    attachment.php?attachmentid=74873&stc=1&d=1288553621

    IOW, logic ground and load ground are connected to a single point at the MOSFET's source pin.

    -Phil
    “Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
  • I will reconnect the BS2 inside a new project box. I just got a buck converter. The EAZY VLC programmable duel relay has failed a buck converter test. It only works when voltage rises. Maybe BS2 was working butVL2.0 was not? The VLC is not the single relay version.
  • Re: Kwinn's schematic showing a "common ground": BE CAREFUL how you connect to this common ground. You DO NOT want MOSFET load current flowing through the logic ground circuit. The correct way to wire them is shown here:

    attachment.php?attachmentid=74873&stc=1&d=1288553621

    IOW, logic ground and load ground are connected to a single point at the MOSFET's source pin.

    -Phil
    Are you referencing the Adafruit sensors INA219's used in this project? "Prop' is theBS2?? The resistors are IN the 219?
    No such resistors exist in this project yet. Maybe this stop 219's input from powering theBS2?
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 7,482
    Re: Kwinn's schematic showing a "common ground": BE CAREFUL how you connect to this common ground. You DO NOT want MOSFET load current flowing through the logic ground circuit. The correct way to wire them is shown here:

    attachment.php?attachmentid=74873&stc=1&d=1288553621

    IOW, logic ground and load ground are connected to a single point at the MOSFET's source pin.

    -Phil
    Are you referencing the Adafruit sensors INA219's used in this project? "Prop' is theBS2?? The resistors are IN the 219?
    No such resistors exist in this project yet. Maybe this stop 219's input from powering theBS2?

    No, he is not referring INA, and probably meant the BS2 rather than Prop. So many posts under the bridge that finding the schematic he is referring to will not be easy.
    In science there is no authority. There is only experiment.
    Life is unpredictable. Eat dessert first.
  • Kwinn ,even tho I have already achieved the projects goal with other hardware I think it would be best to repair the BS2. I like the idea of looking at live data on a debug screen. I 'm waiting for China sailors to bring me quality relays. All three EAZY VLC duel relay boards were defect. The most recent relays haveing the digital display flash -US- on it during a malfunction . Maybe Japan EAZY company not like Americans?
  • I can use the buck converter to simulate the voltage drop. When the BS2 is no longer powered by the input voltage and the p.c. board relays coils are energized by theBS2 at the programmed voltage then I will have success .
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