Invent-O-Doc is here to help!

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  • GrandeNurseGrandeNurse Posts: 110
    edited 2013-01-27 - 09:25:00
    I think we are all on the same page now, it's not the data collection, its the analysis and presentation. The risky conversation is the discussion of the ANALYSIS ALGORITHM that you plan on using, and will it run in real time (or near enough real time) to get the results out to those who can utilize it. Things that I find totaly unacceptable: FALSE POSITIVES (the boy that cried wolf), UNRELIABLE equipment (maybe it will work today), INCORRECT RESULTs (bad data or bad reporting), and POOR user interfaces. The question about equipment helps me to define how much processing cycles (this is the computer science BIG O analysis) I can allocate to my analysis algotihm(s). A poor choose of algorithm can result in a bad prototype that just is/gives Unreliable Incorrect and Falsely reporting. I've also seen projects where the processor selected was under-powered and the team tried shoe-horning more than it could handle.

    Now with that all said, the prop (or multiple props in parallel) with a front end signal processor (AtMega or whatever) might have a chance of pulling this off. This is based on initial math modeling (BIG O) of what I think (thats the estimate thing that always proves to be in error later on) the prop can do.

    ALGORITHMS ?
  • frank freedmanfrank freedman Posts: 1,435
    edited 2013-01-27 - 10:29:18
    @RW, 7k device is a bottom feeder price. On the Philips/GE/Siemens stuff, that is about an exchange based repair costs......

    GrandNurse, you have the world at your disposal use any gizmos you want as long as you use a micro controller or micro controllers for the brains. ARM micros are fine too! The reason I asked about a PI is it is not a micro controller it is a microprocessor an ARM11 to be precise, while an ARM micro would be something like an ARM cortex m0/m4. A RasPI is alot more powerful than an ARM micro I was sure it wasn't allowed when I asked. The spirit of this contest seems to be, to show the public what can be done with cheap micro controllers like props, avrs, pics, arm cortex, etc.... I think the reasoning is most medical equipment probably uses very specialized an expensive hardware!

    This contest has made me look on the net at some commercial hospital gear and man that stuff is exspensive. You could definitely use a prop to replicate what some 7000 dollar devices do
    Ordnung ist das halbe Leben
    I gave up on that half long ago.........
  • frank freedmanfrank freedman Posts: 1,435
    edited 2013-01-27 - 10:46:13
    @grandenurse,
    This contest (to my perception) is a concept contest. Nothing presented here outside of some non-invasive PT or other therapy or other non-medical but related devices will ever be employed "raw". There is a reason for bleeploads of testing and evaluation of medical devices long before they reach if ever, the point of clinical trials. To say nothing of achieving actual clearance for marketing and sale to the public. Disregarding my posts on assembly for beginners and my ADC/DAC adventures, you will find my reminders of such to a few other threads. There are probably a few others equally aware of the lifecycle of medical devices.

    Pick a concept and run with it..... I may do my smart protractor anyway (PT measuring device), a large team could refine the idea of a robot mounted vital signs device for remote casualty evaluation and though beyond this contest scope, a robot adapted to casualty retrieval as seen in a slide someone linked..... Just needs to be microcontroller run...... So pick an idea and run with it.... How about using one of the vga objects with a ping sensor and display to help someone with an SCI or brain trauma rebuild motor skills an possibly restore some level of hand eye coordination.

    Cr@p, just to many ideas and not enough time........

    Frank

    Edit: wish my job allowed me to brainstorm and develop this stuff for a living, but that much fun would probably deserve too big a pay hit.....

    Gonna submit the ping idea with the protractor.....
    Ordnung ist das halbe Leben
    I gave up on that half long ago.........
  • prof_brainoprof_braino Posts: 4,312
    edited 2013-01-27 - 10:59:04
    For those that have not taken a MEDICAL INSTRUMENTATION class(s), here is some information that might help get started (note this uses things not included in the medic kit):
    1. look up the test book Medical Instrumentation: Application and Designby John G. Webster it's not great but it does have some interesting information

    Is there a different reference we can get at? At $100, even it WERE great, I would not be affording it.

    Can the same information be found in one or more web accessible resource(s)?
  • frank freedmanfrank freedman Posts: 1,435
    edited 2013-01-27 - 11:38:57
    Google is your friend (and muse, and extended "big-brain" ;)

    FF
    Is there a different reference we can get at? At $100, even it WERE great, I would not be affording it.

    Can the same information be found in one or more web accessible resource(s)?
    Ordnung ist das halbe Leben
    I gave up on that half long ago.........
  • ArtemissArtemiss Posts: 2
    edited 2013-01-28 - 14:15:38
    Hello,

    I am a 4th year Biomedical Engineering student, and I am really interested in participating in this contest. I have some questions for you:

    1. I want to learn more about the issues where the army needs medical solutions, i.e. more project ideas than the ones posted in the contest page. Having suggestions from people in the field would be helpful, but I don't know who to ask. Could you direct me?

    2. Do you have any application for a flexible skin-like touch/pressure sensor that can be wrapped anywhere in the body and/or any object? where would the Army use something like this?

    3. What should I include in my video?
  • frank freedmanfrank freedman Posts: 1,435
    edited 2013-01-28 - 20:39:03
    Your number two sounds like a good start for a neuro rehab idea. Start with a grip strength and go from there. TBIs take lot of rehab work to relearn the most basic things. As for number 1, ask your instructors if they have any connections; or find out who your local version of the Barrow Neurological Institute or similar is near you. See if one of their PT/OT types has any ideas for you to play with.....

    Frank

    P.s. For the video, guess your job is to convince the review board that your idea merits $400.00 worth of kit and there is reasonable probability the project will be presentable by the deadline. Go for it!!
    Ordnung ist das halbe Leben
    I gave up on that half long ago.........
  • Lauren DavisLauren Davis Posts: 313
    edited 2013-01-29 - 09:06:28
    Hi Artemiss,

    I can answer #3 for you. The video can be brief, 1-2 min. The judges really just need to hear your idea and feel confident that you plan on delivering an application for the contest. Good luck!

    Lauren
  • ArtemissArtemiss Posts: 2
    edited 2013-01-29 - 18:46:21
    Hi Artemiss,

    I can answer #3 for you. The video can be brief, 1-2 min. The judges really just need to hear your idea and feel confident that you plan on delivering an application for the contest. Good luck!

    Lauren

    Thank you Lauren.
  • Invent-O-DocInvent-O-Doc Posts: 768
    edited 2013-01-30 - 13:30:03
    Hello Artemiss,

    No problem. Feel free to post questions or PM. The list was too short for you?

    Thomas Talbot, MD - New Market, Maryland, USA
  • borisgborisg Posts: 39
    edited 2013-02-14 - 14:29:39
    A question to Invent-O Doc. Finally got around to perusing the project suggestions and noticed that a fine motor assessment test was on the list. Is there any standard test that's used for this? I wrote a C64 program for a neuropsychologist decades ago which tested hand stability when putting a fine metal rod through increasingly smaller holes. Trivial to port to the Propeller. Also, I was thinking of throwing in my alternate two finger tapping (AFT) program which requires people to tap on two switches as quickly as possible. This test is quite abnormal in people with Parkinson's but is also abnormal in someone with pyramidal tract damage or frontal pre-motor/motor cortex damage. Simple to do and I use the qualitative test clinically all of the time. The quantitative test could be used in assessing progress in a rehab setting. Also, was thinking of adding both simple and choice reaction times to visual/auditory stimuli as well. The reaction time test, however, does require a laptop to provide the pseudorandom stimuli (or someone out of sight of the subject producing the stimuli).

    Using an accelerometer would be useful in quantifying balance, and also looking at gait disturbances. Unfortunately the latter application would require a laptop as the amount of data to be analyzed for the gait application exceeds the Propeller memory requirements.
  • Invent-O-DocInvent-O-Doc Posts: 768
    edited 2013-02-14 - 14:33:29
    I don't have an answer for you boris if there is a standard or not. I certainly can think of physical therapy exercises, including balance ones, that could benefit from accelerometer or tilt-sensor feedback.

    Thomas Talbot, MD - New Market, Maryland, USA
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2013-02-14 - 17:55:58
    borisg wrote: »
    Using an accelerometer would be useful in quantifying balance, and also looking at gait disturbances. Unfortunately the latter application would require a laptop as the amount of data to be analyzed for the gait application exceeds the Propeller memory requirements.

    A little bit of Raspberry Pi could be a good match with Propeller for a project like this. There's plenty of processing power with this combination plus WiFi capability all in a small package.
    MOV OUTA, PEACE <div>Rick </div><div>"I've stopped using programming languages with Garbage Collection, they keep deleting my source code!!"</div>
  • borisgborisg Posts: 39
    edited 2013-02-14 - 20:02:51
    Mindrobots, you're quite right about the RaspberryPi or similar ARM based system as being the solution. For some reason I assumed it wasn't allowed (but then I haven't read the contest rules in a month). It we can use ARM processors in addition, then this would be a great use of my Sitara systems which are feeling dejected and ignored since I've just been playing with the Propeller since I found out about this contest. The Sitara AM335x development kit is a very nice TI processor with 512 Mb of RAM, a nice touchscreen and comes with both Linux and Android development systems. That could clearly handle the data load.

    As far as the RaspberryPi goes, I've never seen one available. I was ready to buy 4 of them as soon as I heard about the unit, but not once have I found any online retailer with stock. So, my ARM based development systems are the Beagleboard and Sitara (the latter comes with a touchscreen unlike the Beagleboard). As an example of how much one can pack into a small space, the TI chronos watch has built in accelerometer and barometer, but unfortunately doesn't interface with the Polar HR transmitter.

    From an applications viewpoint, I'm assuming that the US military uses Toughbooks as one of their primary field laptops and it's a nice machine except the keyboard is too small. From a power consumption standpoint the AM335x would likely be better than the Toughbook. OTOH, I've been enjoying getting back into my 1980's programming mindset working with an incredibly powerful machine which has more RAM than many of the systems I worked on in the early 1980's. When the Propeller2 comes out, one would be able to do my complete application with a single propeller chip especially as there are enough I/O pins on the Prop2 to interface to external SRAM. Also, I get a lot more done on the Propeller as it's so easy to get sidetracked playing with ARM based systems.
  • frank freedmanfrank freedman Posts: 1,435
    edited 2013-02-15 - 15:27:34
    Check element 14, F.K.A. Newark electronics. They regularly send ads for these and other EVKs.

    FF
    Ordnung ist das halbe Leben
    I gave up on that half long ago.........
  • borisgborisg Posts: 39
    edited 2013-02-15 - 20:49:27
    Frank, thanks for the link. They are out of stock too!! May just have to place an order and wait a few weeks.
  • GrandeNurseGrandeNurse Posts: 110
    edited 2013-03-01 - 20:13:13
    This is more of a statement rather than a question:
    I (and I assume many others) have not submitted an application yet, as we have (as I understand) until End of June to apply. We don't need to submit a video now so why publish what we are doing? It doesn't matter if some-one-else was working on the same monitoring functions as I, as the contest will evaluate the best in class. The only reason I could see to apply today is if you wanted a "Contest Package". Many of us already have most of the parallax products in the package so that isn't driving me (and I assume others) to apply. I think many people are watching and working on this contest, so we will see how many "pop" out of the wood-work as the close date for entry approaches.
    I am glad that I have a lot of time to refine the work I've done so far and plan on doing in relation to this contest. It has made me (and those working with me) to pull some text books out and refine our understanding.

    Now for something that may be of interest to others:
    I got tired of the level translation and second power supply (+5) needed for the use of the standard Parallax "Sound Impact" sensor (mixing 5v sub-systems with the 3.3v propeller) so I found DigiKey MIC1555 works well (replacing the 555 general purpose mono-stable multi-vibrator in the impact sensor). You can detect BREATHING with this mod. It may be nicer if Parallax would make a second version of the Sound Impact sensor using 3.3v parts.

    Another note, if you really want to make a man-i-can (humor for those that know it) breath, look at American Science Surplus 41211P1 TAKE-OUT RESPIRATOR PUMP PARTS
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