Enameled Steel wire???

Anyone know of a decent supplier for Enameled Steel wire or perhaps have some that they would be willing to part with? ... I'm looking for a couple hundred feet, but I don't want to spend a huge amount. Something along the lines of 22 gauge to 30 gauge would be ok.

Thanks
"Irony hides in the deception of your current view of the situation" - Me ....
In other words, do not believe what you are told and what you immediately perceive until you find out the absolute truth for yourself from all possible angles.

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  • 23 Comments sorted by Votes Date Added
  • edited November 2011 Posts: 0Vote Up0Vote Down
    Anyone know of a decent supplier for Enameled Steel wire or perhaps have some that they would be willing to part with? ... I'm looking for a couple hundred feet, but I don't want to spend a huge amount. Something along the lines of 22 gauge to 30 gauge would be ok.

    Thanks

    Would this work?

    http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2036277

    One spool is 200 ft of 30 ga.
    I have three propellers
  • edited November 2011 Posts: 6,012Vote Up0Vote Down
    hover1,

    Nope, that's enameled copper.... I specifically need enameled steel. Same idea though. :-)
    "Irony hides in the deception of your current view of the situation" - Me ....
    In other words, do not believe what you are told and what you immediately perceive until you find out the absolute truth for yourself from all possible angles.

    www.Kit-Start.com
    bschwabe@Kit-Start.com

    www.BScircuitDesigns.com
    icbeau@bscircuitdesigns.com
  • edited November 2011 Posts: 0Vote Up0Vote Down
    Sorry Beau. Pulled the trigger too fast and didn't read.
    I have three propellers
  • edited November 2011 Posts: 6,012Vote Up0Vote Down
    hover, No problem...

    Basically I'm using it for two modes of operation....

    1) Power applied to the coil provides conventional coil characteristics, however using steel wire benefits in providing it's own iron core.
    2) The coil, because it's enameled, acts as a laminated toroid ring to transfer magnetic flux between additional primary and secondary coils

    ...The experiment is nothing really bizarre, other than a method to minimize or completely eliminate detents in a generator/motor design to help increase efficiency and power transfer.


    Thanks Erco, will look into at least one of those links... the first one doesn't look like it's insulated.
    "Irony hides in the deception of your current view of the situation" - Me ....
    In other words, do not believe what you are told and what you immediately perceive until you find out the absolute truth for yourself from all possible angles.

    www.Kit-Start.com
    bschwabe@Kit-Start.com

    www.BScircuitDesigns.com
    icbeau@bscircuitdesigns.com
  • edited November 2011 Posts: 0Vote Up0Vote Down
    Beau,

    I've seen examples of coated "beading wire", but it all seems to be stranded instead of solid. 'Probably a lot harder to strip and make a connection to...

    -Phil
    “Impossible is just a big word thrown around by small men who find it easier to live in the world they’ve been given than to explore the power they have to change it. Impossible is not a fact. It’s an opinion. Impossible is not a declaration. It’s a dare. Impossible is potential. Impossible is temporary. Impossible is nothing.” –Muhammad Ali
  • edited November 2011 Posts: 0Vote Up0Vote Down
    Hi Beau,
    That's brilliant!

    I'd thought in the past doing a similar thing to build low weight linear motors for bipeds. Steel/another magnetic wire may be just the trick to get the power/weight/lift right without the use of iron cores.

    Seriously cool idea.
    It's all a function of time
  • edited November 2011 Posts: 0Vote Up0Vote Down
    Beau...
    '
    Stainless is considered NON-Frerros...Its really low in iron.
    __Walt McDonald__

    The Truth is out there
    It's not rocket-surgery
    I see why we don't have any water,All of the pipes are full of wires!
    E=WMc2
    Now with WiFi
    Not in the Spin Bunch
    import RPi.GPIO as GPIO

    ABB M202 certified
    ABB M211 certified
  • edited November 2011 Posts: 6,012Vote Up0Vote Down
    $WMc%,

    "Stainless is considered NON-Frerros...Its really low in iron." - yeah, I know, but for proof of concept, if that works the way I envision, then I can move towards a more bizarre requirement. right now, if the wire will 'stick' to a magnet without being powered it will do the job for what I am looking for.
    "Irony hides in the deception of your current view of the situation" - Me ....
    In other words, do not believe what you are told and what you immediately perceive until you find out the absolute truth for yourself from all possible angles.

    www.Kit-Start.com
    bschwabe@Kit-Start.com

    www.BScircuitDesigns.com
    icbeau@bscircuitdesigns.com
  • edited November 2011 Posts: 0Vote Up0Vote Down
    ...
    Power applied to the coil provides conventional coil characteristics, however using steel wire benefits in providing it's own iron core.....

    Beau,
    do you happen to have a reference behind the theory of this design?

    McMaster sells 1008 alloy steel PVC coated, 0.062 inch, 245 feet, for about 10 dollars. #8867K25. I don't know what it's electrical resistance is, though.
    EDIT: but I guess that's too big for what you want.
  • edited November 2011 Posts: 0Vote Up0Vote Down
    ...

    "Stainless is considered NON-Frerros...Its really low in iron." - yeah, I know...

    I think what you're really talking about is that some stainless steels are non-magnetic. Stainless steels are composed mostly of iron, but maybe some people talk about them as being non-ferrous when they recycle them or something.
  • edited November 2011 Posts: 6,012Vote Up0Vote Down
    ElectricAye,

    "do you happen to have a reference behind the theory of this design?" - Other than technology that hasn't changed in over 100 years ... the idea is for a mechanical version of a toroid transformer being used as a generator with a specific goal in mind to minimize detents as the generator is being rotated.

    Let me re-phrase... the primary of the toroid transformer would be mechanical in nature


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformer
    Citation:
    "...Early transformer developers soon realized that cores constructed from solid iron resulted in prohibitive eddy-current losses, and their designs mitigated this effect with cores consisting of bundles of insulated iron wires..."



    Think of a toroid transformer, the enameled steel wire would serve as a laminated core allowing me to adjust the shape of it however I need.

    Now remove the primary coil... matter of fact, cut a notch out of the toroid where the primary would be ... now you have a C instead of an O

    The opening of the C insert a rotating disk with alternating N/S magnets and minimize the air gap as much as possible ... essentially that is your new primary...BUT!!! ...you have severe detents to overcome moving from one pole to the next.

    A solution is to spread out the open ends of each C so that the abutting C partially interdigitates into it's neighbor... The idea is to create a monolithic array of 'points' that the N/S magnets can 'see' equally .... you still have Eddie resistance to overcome, but most of that gets directly converted to power. The detents are all but gone with this approach. Reverse power and sequence the coils and you essentially have a stepper.
    "Irony hides in the deception of your current view of the situation" - Me ....
    In other words, do not believe what you are told and what you immediately perceive until you find out the absolute truth for yourself from all possible angles.

    www.Kit-Start.com
    bschwabe@Kit-Start.com

    www.BScircuitDesigns.com
    icbeau@bscircuitdesigns.com
  • edited November 2011 Posts: 0Vote Up0Vote Down
    I have made some Toroidal transformers back in the day. I used 16GA. low carbon steel " tie wire " something like 1008 or 1010,really soft and easy to work with..After winding the core on a "Dough-nut" shaped form. I melted down some wax and soaked the core in this.It helped to reduce the eddy's and silence the rattles.
    '
    I used these to hot-rod high power car audio amps back when I was younger.
    '
    I never could find any thin insulated iron wire....
    __Walt McDonald__

    The Truth is out there
    It's not rocket-surgery
    I see why we don't have any water,All of the pipes are full of wires!
    E=WMc2
    Now with WiFi
    Not in the Spin Bunch
    import RPi.GPIO as GPIO

    ABB M202 certified
    ABB M211 certified
  • edited November 2011 Posts: 0Vote Up0Vote Down
    .... using steel wire benefits in providing it's own iron core....
    Beau,
    do you happen to have a reference behind the theory of this design? ....

    ... Other than technology that hasn't changed in over 100 years .......

    I guess I misunderstood what you were saying. I thought you were trying to make a single coil of steel wire serve as both the source of a magnetic field and its own iron core at the same time, which I don't think is possible since the turns of wires that rest side by side have their "cheek-to-cheek" magnetic fields cancel out, leaving a resulting magnetic field concentrated in the core and more dispersed outside the solenoid. In that case I don't think very much magnetic field could go through the steel wire at all. At least... I think not.

    magnetic-field-in-a-straight-coil-of-wire.gif
  • edited November 2011 Posts: 0Vote Up0Vote Down
    ElectircAye
    '
    I think your way over thinking this...
    __Walt McDonald__

    The Truth is out there
    It's not rocket-surgery
    I see why we don't have any water,All of the pipes are full of wires!
    E=WMc2
    Now with WiFi
    Not in the Spin Bunch
    import RPi.GPIO as GPIO

    ABB M202 certified
    ABB M211 certified
  • edited November 2011 Posts: 0Vote Up0Vote Down
    Whisker is a hardware and wetware hacker, and produces geeky content on a daily basis. Atdiy is a cardiovascular nurse by day and an electronics n00b at night. Together we're the Toymakers (Tymkrs) and we post videos/blogs on electronics, DIY projects, and whatever else we happen upon! Visit us at http://tymkrs.com, http://zombietech.tv, and http://firstspin.tv! Our projects are on https://www.reddit.com/r/Tymkrs/ and you can chat with us daily at #tymkrs!
  • edited November 2011 Posts: 0Vote Up0Vote Down
    @ElectricAye
    I am just guessing here, but from the picture you posted, if that same wire was not only coiled like shown, but also being wrapped with a coil around it, wouldn't that work as its own core? Similar to a toroid?? Wouldn't that be a transformer within itself??

    100_0421.jpg
    100_0422.jpg


    My multimeter blew a fuse last night or I would have tested this, need to get some fuses when the store opens after 9.
    1024 x 768 - 27K
    1024 x 768 - 39K
  • edited November 2011 Posts: 0Vote Up0Vote Down
    @Beau Schwabe
    This company will give you the conductor of your choice: http://www.phoenixwireinc.com/ their site boasts Teflon coated, but they also make Magnet wire.
  • edited November 2011 Posts: 0Vote Up0Vote Down
    Jorge P wrote: »
    ...if that same wire was not only coiled like shown, but also being wrapped with a coil around it, wouldn't that work as its own core?....

    Jorge,

    please don't confuse me with somebody who really knows what he's talking about. But it seems to me that the large wire (let's call it L) in your picture could indeed serve as a core for the smaller wire (S) coiled around it. However, I don't think the mass of metal provided by S could serve as a very effective core for the coil of L: it seems to me that the mass of S would be located in a position that wouldn't "capture" very much of the magnetic field resulting from L. Also, I think the effective "magnetic density" (permittivity?) of the S metal would be reduced because it's "diluted" by so much insulation, etc.

    Also, I wasn't under the impression that's what Beau was talking about. I thought he was trying to use the very same wire to act as both coil and core.

    But, again, I'm not sure about any of this. I'm just intrigued by what Beau was talking about and probably poked my nose into something I shouldn't have.
  • edited November 2011 Posts: 0Vote Up0Vote Down
    It might just be easier to draw some plain iron wire through a bath of low-viscosity epoxy and have some heat lamps accelerate drying on the output.

    http://www.westsystem.com/ss/

    I'd love to know what exactly the 'enamel' in enamel copper wire is. It could be a simple varnish or shellac. I only mention the epoxy because it is likely to be very durable for further fabrication and it has a tendency to completely insulate without bubbles. That's why it is used in coating steel rebar to prevent exposure to salt water in underground and marine construction.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enameled_wire
    Hwang Xian Shen, Puddleby-on-the-Marsh.
    WTF? --- just may mean "Was That Funny?" , or maybe something else.
  • edited November 2011 Posts: 0Vote Up0Vote Down
    enamel paint
    '
    Its an insulator like varnish or shellac on the out side of the wire.really thin.
    __Walt McDonald__

    The Truth is out there
    It's not rocket-surgery
    I see why we don't have any water,All of the pipes are full of wires!
    E=WMc2
    Now with WiFi
    Not in the Spin Bunch
    import RPi.GPIO as GPIO

    ABB M202 certified
    ABB M211 certified
  • edited November 2011 Posts: 6,012Vote Up0Vote Down
    Hmmm... seems I've caused quite a stir ... or 'flux'

    Some of the confusion seems to have combined the two 'modes' that I mentioned earlier... where they were meant to be separate and function independently.

    However, since the location of the 'ferrous" metal is relative in position to the coil, modes 1 and 2 could possibly be combined in the form of a pancake coil or some other coil arrangement than a solenoid coil.
    "Irony hides in the deception of your current view of the situation" - Me ....
    In other words, do not believe what you are told and what you immediately perceive until you find out the absolute truth for yourself from all possible angles.

    www.Kit-Start.com
    bschwabe@Kit-Start.com

    www.BScircuitDesigns.com
    icbeau@bscircuitdesigns.com
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