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D Faust
09-10-2007, 07:49 AM
Hi everybody. I have no experience with the Prop so bear with me.· I was looking into the propeller for a little ways down the road (or at least until I can find some room in my budget).· I was wondering if there was any·Parallax plans·for making something for the prop like the stamp's boe or SX's tech board?· The protoboard is about what I am looking for, but I like the breadboard on the boe.· The prop demo board also looks cool, but many of the IOs are tied up with stuff that I wouldn't need.· What would be the best place to start with?· Here is what I am looking for: Solderless, I like to change things constantly and I don't have experience with it anyway Many IOs, I plan to make a bot that has·a·lot·sensors. Video plug for debuging (I have heard that you need one?) I could solder this, are there thru hole ones? Way to learn SPIN/Assembly (book or soemthing?) Cost effective

This probably has been discussed before so other threads help too (I couldn't find anything)

Thank You very much, Happy Coding.



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MarkS
09-10-2007, 08:41 AM
You can plug the Spin Stamp (Propeller) into the socket of the BOE, although you lose several of the Prop's 32 IO pins. I'd love to see a Propeller-specific BOE. Nothing fancy, just the basics.

Spin Stamp:

http://www.parallax.com/images/prod_jpg/ss1-ic.jpg (http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=SS1-IC)

Post Edited (MarkS) : 9/10/2007 12:50:05 AM GMT

MarkS
09-10-2007, 09:08 AM
After looking at the BOE for a while, it would be possible to make a board the same size with 2 16 position breadboards, one on each end and a Prop in the center. Just rotate the 2-row header 90° and eliminate the 9v battery connectors and USB/serial connectors. The 2-row header would have to be increased in size to accommodate all 32 IO pins, or it could be left alone. The voltage regulator could be changed to a SMD package and it would save a ton of space. If a 9v battery is just absolutely necessary, an adapter cable would not be too difficult to make.

parts-man73
09-10-2007, 09:09 AM
Look at SpinStudio ucontroller.com (http://ucontroller.com)

You'll get the best of both worlds. You can have keyboard / mouse / Composite Video / Audio / SD card access / Servo Connectors or direct access to IO pins when you desire. But if you need more servo's or IO pin access, you can unplug the modules you don't need, and plug in more IO/Servo modules.

And you don't have to buy modules you'll never use, it's ala'carte! or if you find a need for features in the future, just order that one module that you'd like to add.

Most of the modules can be used with Parallax's Protoboard also, with a simple addition of a 20 pin male dual row header (which I provide for free by request) See The Propeller Cookbook (which is mirrored on my website also) for directions for this modification.

There are a few more modules that I'm designing right now. I'm quite excited about them, and I think other's will be exited as well when they are released.

These modules are kits and do require soldering, but contact me if you are uncomfortable with soldering and I could assemble them for you before shipping.

I don't mean to hijack this thread with a blatant advertisement, but I thought my product sounded like it fits your needs perfectly

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Brian

uController.com (http://uController.com) - home of SpinStudio

parts-man73
09-10-2007, 09:13 AM
Also look at my Avatar, there is a picture of an assembled SpinStudio that I have mounted to a peice of lexan that I picked up at a local hardware store. I mounted some of Parallax's excellent solderless breadboards to this, and wires can be jumpered to the breadboarding area from a Servo / IO module.

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Brian

uController.com (http://uController.com) - home of SpinStudio

D Faust
09-10-2007, 10:15 AM
Mark S, regarding your first post: I like the idea of the spin stamp but I really want access to all of the IOs. About your second idea: You are saying that I should make my own board. I like the idea, but that I am really looking for something premade to start.
Brian, I don't take your post to be a blatant advertisement. I think that is more or less what I am looking for. I will have to tally up the total cost for all the parts. I like the buy-what-you-need idea.
Thank you for your ideas!
PS I'm still open to more.

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ON subnum GOTO Hope_this_helps, Thanks!, WOW!!
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parts-man73
09-10-2007, 11:27 AM
btw...The Spin Studio mainboard will fit on a boe-bot chassis.

(Parallax's Protoboard does as well)

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Brian

uController.com (http://uController.com) - home of SpinStudio

MarkS
09-10-2007, 06:06 PM
D Faust said...
Mark S, regarding your first post: I like the idea of the spin stamp but I really want access to all of the IOs. About your second idea: You are saying that I should make my own board. I like the idea, but that I am really looking for something premade to start.


Not that you should but *someone* should. http://forums.parallax.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Fred Hawkins
09-10-2007, 06:52 PM
get the Propeller Education Kit instead.

Graham Stabler
09-10-2007, 07:41 PM
Buy a protoboard and glue on a cheap breadboard. Look at the demo board schematics to see just how easy it is to add video etc.

Graham

deSilva
09-11-2007, 02:28 AM
I think it is time to start promoting a new concept, divised by Franz Achatz - and I helped a little bit! It will exactly address the needs of D Faust....

Stay tuned http://forums.parallax.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

D Faust
09-11-2007, 02:47 AM
Brian, can you tell/show me what the pins of the headers are linked to? Also what are the sizes of the add-on boards?

I like the PEK but breadboards are harder to mount/bulkier for a bot. There are some labs to do with the kit on these forums right?

I have one of the BOE's breadboards that I bought with my last order would it fit on the protoboard (without mounting it on top of the chip)?

Thanks for the heads up deSilva. Do we have a time estimate?

If you are putting together a kit for the product, my opinion would be to have everything necessay to use the propeller including the manual. Just so you know.

What is the best documentation to learn from?· What did you guys/girls learn from?

BTW I appreciate your help.

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LOOKDOWN ThisThread, [Your_?, My_?, Cool_Thing], looknum
LOOKUP looknum, [1, 2, 3], subnum
ON subnum GOTO Hope_this_helps, Thanks!, WOW!!
END

deSilva
09-11-2007, 02:57 AM
D Faust said...
Thanks for the heads up deSilva. Do we have a time estimate?

October - THIS year http://forums.parallax.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

said...
What did you guys/girls learn from?

No girls AFAIK :-(
- The Propeller Manual is really good : Start with Chapter 3!
- Work through the Educational Examples; even if you find some of the things dull, you will get A LOT of background information!

D Faust
09-11-2007, 03:31 AM
deSilva, thanks for the info.· I saw in another forums that the manual truns into a syntax library after chapter 3 is that so?· Didn't you write a pdf on assembly.

Everyone else,·Is it very helpful?

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LOOKDOWN ThisThread, [Your_?, My_?, Cool_Thing], looknum
LOOKUP looknum, [1, 2, 3], subnum
ON subnum GOTO Hope_this_helps, Thanks!, WOW!!
END

deSilva
09-11-2007, 03:54 AM
D Faust said...
I saw in another forums that the manual truns into a syntax library after chapter 3 is that so? Didn't you write a pdf on assembly.

I was tempted to say ".... and also stop with Chapter 3", but considered it unnecessary as you would anyhow http://forums.parallax.com/images/smilies/smile.gif.
Nevertheles it IS important to look things up from time to time, especially for machine language in chapter 5. Note there is also a (small) Supplement/Errata for the Manual!!

When you want to code in machine language, I should - of course - also recommend my Tutorial; it can be found through one of the sticky threads. I shall update it soon, and then the thread will pop up again http://forums.parallax.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

parts-man73
09-11-2007, 04:12 AM
D Faust said...
Brian, can you tell/show me what the pins of the headers are linked to?


I assume you mean the "General IO / Servo" module. The female header on the far right of the picture is wired directly to the 8 IO pins in that Socket. If it's plugged into Socket A on the main board, it has access to P0-P7, Socket B is P8-P15 etc etc

The 3x8 grid of male headers provides access to the same 8 IO pins, but with a current limiting resistor. You also get 5VDC and GND, these 8 rows of 3 pin headers are for plugging devices such as Servos or Ping sensors right in.


D Faust said...
Also what are the sizes of the add-on boards?



Most measure approx 1.25"x2" there are some exceptions, such as the SD card adapter.

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Brian

uController.com (http://uController.com) - home of SpinStudio

D Faust
09-11-2007, 05:03 AM
deSilva, It sounds like it isn't well worth it to buy the manual in print ($35!) especially if I only need the firstthree chapters and the rest for reference.http://forums.parallax.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Brian when I said: "Brian, can you tell/show me what the pins of the headers are linked to?" what I meant was a picture of the header with the pins labeled Ground, +5V, 3.3V,·pin 1, pin 2·and so on.· Or if you can describe it instead that would be fine two.· Thank you


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END

Baggers
09-11-2007, 05:27 AM
sorry to hijack this thread, but the title just reminded me of Avid Merrion So I had to add this :) I'm sure the other brits will know what I mean.
as one of his catch phrases was "Proper Bo" :)

D Faust
09-11-2007, 05:35 AM
I'm confused, but that is probably because I'm not a brit :)

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LOOKDOWN ThisThread, [Your_?, My_?, Cool_Thing], looknum
LOOKUP looknum, [1, 2, 3], subnum
ON subnum GOTO Hope_this_helps, Thanks!, WOW!!
END

Graham Stabler
09-11-2007, 05:59 AM
Baggers, perhaps now is not the best time to mention Craig David's Kestrel :)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMEsBEBypRE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMEsBEBypRE) (WARNING some rude words)

Post Edited (Graham Stabler) : 9/10/2007 10:04:26 PM GMT

Dgswaner
09-11-2007, 06:18 AM
D, to answer your question about the propeller starter kit. I just looked at the kits again.. The starter kit is totally not worth it. the manual sells for $34. and a proto board for $25 I could have bought 3 proto boards, the accessories kit, the manual and power supply. for what I paid, I did get 10 or 15% off and a fee Tee so I guess that eases the pain. but not much. I definitely didn't look close enough when I picked my package, it was a busy day at work and in trying to save 10% I spent 150%.

the thing I do like about the demo board is that a lot of the spin objects are written for it, so you don't have to convert any pins callouts. it also allows you to very quickly see what the prop is capable of. I had my Compass displayed on my TV in about 5 minutes. and listening to "Singing Seven" a minute later.

I your looking to build a bot or other project I would buy: 2 proto boards 1 accessory kit and the manual. that will give you the best of both worlds, hard copy of the manual and online docs. buying 2 proto boards would give you one to build your first project and one to learn on. hope that helps...

with all seriousness.... if you want to borrow my demo board on a you break it you buy it basis, let me know. perhaps a good faith deposit wouldn't be a bad idea also.. but seriously... let me know. I'm going to buy a couple proto boards soon.

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A complex design is the sign of an inferior designer. - Jamie Hyneman, Myth Buster

Post Edited (Dgswaner) : 9/10/2007 10:26:33 PM GMT

Oldbitcollector (Jeff)
09-11-2007, 06:27 AM
The next update of the Propeller Cookbook will expand on the idea of Brian's SpinStudio cards and using them with the Protoboard. (It's an excellent combination) I'm overdue on that update because I want to finish adding information on servo usage as well.

Oldbitcollector

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Buttons . . . check. Dials . . . check. Switches . . . check. Little colored lights . . . check.

— Calvin, of 'Cavin and Hobbes.

Duffer
09-11-2007, 06:32 AM
The Prop Proto board is the same size as the BOE and is a direct bolt-up replacement on the BOE-BOT chassis. If you look at the proto baord and the way the traces are·laid out, it lends itself very well to the tasks you mentioned. Get yourself a handfull of the female connector strips and solder them to the proto board as in the photo below (Accessory kit, mouse, keyboard, monitor optional). Notice the "double-row" connectors on two sides of the board. The two outside rows·(actually, the 2nd and 3rd rows) are bridged. It's a nice convenient way of breadboarding connections from the I/O pin headers to the inside row and then out to other sensors, etc. on the outside row.

Also, It's pretty easy to make up small boards for things like composite video that just plug into the I/O pin strips (also see below).

Steve


Post Edited (Duffer) : 9/11/2007 6:21:08 AM GMT

parts-man73
09-11-2007, 06:40 AM
D Faust said...
Brian when I said: "Brian, can you tell/show me what the pins of the headers are linked to?" what I meant was a picture of the header with the pins labeled Ground, +5V, 3.3V, pin 1, pin 2 and so on. Or if you can describe it instead that would be fine two. Thank you




Here's a illustration of what each "Socket" is composed of. 2 pins that are omitted in the diagram are the I2C lines SDA and SCL, they are used on boot up to read the program from EEPROM, after which you can use these lines to interface all sorts of devices.

A 20 wire Ribbon cable with the appropriate plug can be used to "roll your own" devices that can be plugged and unplugged with ease.


One other option is to use a Protoboard, and modify it by adding 1 or more headers, as explained in the Propeller Cookbook, which you can download here --->

ucontroller.com/indextutorials.html (http://ucontroller.com/indextutorials.html)

see pages 14-15, it's a very simple modification and then you can plug SpinStudio modules right into your Proto Board. It's an easy way to add features to a Protoboard.

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Brian

uController.com (http://uController.com) - home of SpinStudio

D Faust
09-11-2007, 07:16 AM
I like the protoboard with socket idea. Pretty cool.· I'm leaning towards the protoboard with the sockets.· Keep the ideas coming.

Dgswaner, thank you for the offer and suggestions.· I like your 2 protoboard and a manual idea, but I will pass up the demoboard rental.· I seemed to be inclined to messing things up and $130·is a lot for a board.· The propeller cookbook looks awesome.· I can guarantee I will try most of those things when I get a prop.· Is there no code for it or did I miss it?

Thank you for all your great ideas. So many options.· Keep the ideas coming.

EDIT: What is the RCA jack called (sounds dumb but·I can't find it)·/ does anyone know the part #? (preferably mouser)· Thanks

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END

Post Edited (D Faust) : 9/10/2007 11:27:50 PM GMT

Dgswaner
09-11-2007, 07:51 AM
I wasn't expecting $130.00 I would actually be willing to trade it for a protoboard and propstick... any takers? I did look at the cookbook. I thought it looked pretty cool also.

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A complex design is the sign of an inferior designer. - Jamie Hyneman, Myth Buster

Oldbitcollector (Jeff)
09-11-2007, 07:55 AM
No, there is no code listed for items in the Cookbook, All of the items have code in the Object exchange. obex.parallax.com (http://obex.parallax.com) I should seriously consider linking to the various objects when I write.
(perhaps something for a later version)

I wasn't going to release this until the next Cookbook, but with all the "club" prep going on this weekend,
I doubt I'll get around to posting an update till next weekend. Here's the completed cookbook entries
for converting your Protoboards to SpinStudio. (Brian, if you want to post this until I get the next release
completed, feel free)

Oldbitcollector

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Buttons . . . check. Dials . . . check. Switches . . . check. Little colored lights . . . check.

— Calvin, of 'Cavin and Hobbes.

D Faust
09-11-2007, 09:16 AM
Thank You for the update and location of code.

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D Faust
10-09-2007, 02:16 AM
deSilva any updates/release dates on the board you mentioned.

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LOOKDOWN ThisThread, [Your_?, My_?, Cool_Thing], looknum
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ON subnum GOTO Hope_this_helps, Thanks!, WOW!!
END

deSilva
10-09-2007, 02:23 AM
:-( Franz Achatz seems to have disappeared... Nothing will go without him...

D Faust
10-09-2007, 02:49 AM
keep me posted.

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LOOKDOWN ThisThread, [Your_?, My_?, Cool_Thing], looknum
LOOKUP looknum, [1, 2, 3], subnum
ON subnum GOTO Hope_this_helps, Thanks!, WOW!!
END