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QuattroRS4
02-19-2007, 07:37 PM
Thought that I'd let you all know that the cheapest Propeller here in Ireland∑from suppliers is unit price €20.12 ex vat ! (add 21% for vat) - so consider yourselves lucky on the other side of the atlantic!


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'Necessity is the mother of invention'

Tom Bampton
02-19-2007, 10:14 PM
We have a similar issue in England. Cheapest we could find was £15/unit. I don't remember if that was including VAT (17.5%) or not, but it probably wasnt. Once shipping etc was added, it was actually cheaper for a friend and I to order directly from Parallax and split the shipping/customs fees.

It kinda sucks, but what can you do?

T.

QuattroRS4
02-19-2007, 11:01 PM
Tom,
I am going to organise direct shipping - I believe customs then take a slice ! But I plan on getting a fairly substantial quantity - so hopefully this will make economical sense. In the UK I think its 'Millford Instruments' who supply as well as Farnell. Maybe we should organise joint shipping ??

Regards,
Quattro

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'Necessity is the mother of invention'

John R.
02-19-2007, 11:11 PM
What are the implications (legal, importing, VAT, etc.) of finding a "friend" this side of the bond to actually purchase the stuff, and send it over as a package between two friends?

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John R.
Click here to see my Nomad Build Log (http://share.crustcrawler.com/JohnR/)

QuattroRS4
02-19-2007, 11:13 PM
Yeah - an even better option - anyone want to be my friend ??? and send me a 'Pressie'

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'Necessity is the mother of invention'

parts-man73
02-20-2007, 12:11 AM
I've sent things to England before. I marked "Gift" on the customs forms, and I think that avoided any taxes or duties, of course it was for a "friend", businesses would not be able to do that.

I could help any of my friends on that side of the pond if you needed help. PM me.

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Brian Meade

"They who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night" - Edgar Poe

QuattroRS4
02-20-2007, 01:16 AM
Cheers Parts-man73 ...

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'Necessity is the mother of invention'

Tom Bampton
02-20-2007, 01:17 AM
QuattroRS4 said...
Tom,
I am going to organise direct shipping - I believe customs then take a slice ! But I plan on getting a fairly substantial quantity - so hopefully this will make economical sense. In the UK I think its 'Millford Instruments' who supply as well as Farnell. Maybe we should organise joint shipping ??


Farnell carry them? I didn't see them on Farnell's site, and I'm sure I looked since we ordered a bunch of other stuff from them. I will have to double check. I don't remember who it was that was selling the expensive props, but it was some robotics hobbyist site. Millford Instruments sounds familiar, maybe it was them.

If I remember correctly, shipping from Parallax cost ~$60 and UPS shafted us for another ~£30. I think that £11 of that was actually customs charges and the rest was a release fee, but I've misplaced the UPS invoice so can't check. That was for 8 props and 2 prop plugs.

I would have been up for joint shipping, but we already ordered enough to see us through the forseeable future so don't really need any more right now. It would be nice to setup a reasonably priced UK distributor for Parallax stuff, but my business is software and electronics is just a hobby, so I'm not sure that I am really the right person to do that.

Re: the "friend" thing ... that is technically illegal, but you could probably get away with it for small quantities. Doing that for a business (either sending or receiving) is likely to land both sides in very deep water, though.

T.

Edit: Just checked Farnell, the have the starter kit here: uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/partDetail.jsp?SKU=1263885 (http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/partDetail.jsp?SKU=1263885) ... and the props here: uk.farnell.com/jsp/search2/browse.jsp?N=500015&Ntk=gensearch_001&Ntt=p8x32a&Ntx=&_requestid=1280136 (http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search2/browse.jsp?N=500015&Ntk=gensearch_001&Ntt=p8x32a&Ntx=&_requestid=1280136). Still kinda expensive, but Farnell shipping is free. If you click on DIP version, the picture is of a 40pin PIC, which I find kinda funny :)

It seems that Farnell may be a viable option for really small quantities, but it's still roughly twice the price you'd pay directly from Parallax.

Post Edited (Tom Bampton) : 2/19/2007 6:23:47 PM GMT

Goran (Sweden)
02-20-2007, 01:53 AM
Prop pricing in Sweden from www.lawicel.se (http://www.lawicel.se)

Prop dip40 109,00∑sek +VAT 25%

From www.elfa.se (http://www.elfa.se) 120,00∑sek +VAT 25%

They have shops in Sverige, Norge, Danmark, Finland och Polen∑ Ryssland, Baltikum

I dont know about shipping to UK or Ireland, but pay the sites a visit.



Regards, Goran (Sweden)

QuattroRS4
02-20-2007, 02:09 AM
Goran,
Will do thanks for that..

Tom,
Yeah you found it also - thought the image was funny though myself (but it does say for illustration purposes only) I contacted farnell about the price last week - I have got approx 30 props from them over the last month and they basically said 'that is the price' as they have to ship from the states... I initially bought the demo pack from them with no PSU for €156.45 + vat - thats $205.78 USD + vat (todays exchange rate) .... are we being screwed or what ?

BTW - Farnell UK are €1 cheaper than Farnell Ireland for Demo Board and €0.20 cheaper for the Propeller !


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'Necessity is the mother of invention'

Post Edited (QuattroRS4) : 2/19/2007 7:21:32 PM GMT

Tom Bampton
02-20-2007, 02:18 AM
QuattroRS4 said...

Tom,
Yeah you found it also - thought the image was funny though myself (but it does say for illustration purposes only) I contacted farnell about the price last week - I have got approx 30 props from them over the last month and they basically said 'that is the price' as they have to ship from the states... I initially bought the demo pack from them with no PSU for €156.45 + vat - thats $205.78 USD + vat (todays exchange rate) .... are we being screwed or what ?


Ouch! It's kinda weird that they say the price is so high because they ship from the states. I thought they charged you additional shipping charges when they do that ? I suppose that it is somewhat understandable, but it's still pretty crappy.

@Goran,

The lawicel site actually looks like they have pretty reasonable prices. It works out at roughly £9 per prop (I didnt check the prices, so am basing on what you mentioned) and shipping to EU countries is something like €10 - 20. It's still a little more per-prop then you'd pay directly from Parallax, but it seems like it's the most reasonable option found thus far.

T.

nomad
02-20-2007, 06:56 PM
hi folks

a another solutions is,:

buying in switzerland. -> http://www.zerko.ch (http://www.zerko.ch)

will delivery the whole basicStamps- and all Propeller-stuff.

in euro

regards

nomad

simonl
02-20-2007, 07:48 PM
Hey guys,

I'm in∑UK too, and it looks like Milford Instruments have recently updated there pages:

Propeller 40-pin DIP chip, Parallax reference # PBX32A-D40.
Milford Part number 1-200 at £9.00 each.

Propeller QFP chip, Parallax reference # PBX32A-Q44.
Milford Part number 1-201 at £9.00 each.

Propeller QFN chip, Parallax reference # PBX32A-M44.
Milford Part number 1-202 at £9.00 each.

Propeller Starter Kit
Propeller Starter Kit, Milford Part # 1-210 @ £95.00 each

Propeller Proto Board
Propeller ProtoBoard, Milford Part # 1-220 @ £16.00 each

Propeller Demo Board
Propeller Develpment Board, Milford Part # 1-216 @ £79.00 each

Prop Clip and Prop Plug
Prop Clip, Milford Part # 1-219 @ £20.00 each
Prop Plug, Milford Part # 1-218 @ £20.00 each

Propstick
Milford Part number 1-215 at £65.00 each

Propeller Accessories Kit
Propeller Accessories Kit, Milford Part # 1-217 @ £75.00 each

HYDRA Game Development Kit
Hydra Development Kit, Milford Part # 1-250 @ £165.00 each

That's still about 25% more than US prices, and that's without VAT http://forums.parallax.com/images/smilies/cry.gif
They're at www.milinst.com (http://www.milinst.com)

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Cheers,

Simon

BTW: I type as I'm thinking, so please don't take any offense at my writing style http://forums.parallax.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

-------------------------------
www.norfolkhelicopterclub.co.uk (http://www.norfolkhelicopterclub.co.uk)
You'll always have as many take-offs as landings, the trick is to be sure you can take-off again ;-)

rjo_
02-21-2007, 05:55 PM
Dear Quattro et al.

I wouldn't know a vat from a black hole, but I suspect that they have a lot in common.

If I were you guys... I'd be careful. You wouldn't want the black hole police to ruin your life just because the worlds monetary system is so screwed up that the relatively mild silicon famine you guys are experiencing might get a lot worse before it gets better.

Conspiracy to violate the VAT... that's a hell of thing for an American to go to jail for.

It is important to remember that a currency isn't really a form of money... it is merely a monetary instrument. If that instrument isn't serving your purposes... you don't have to use it.

I would suggests a forum to establish orderly barter system... if I have something that is worthless to me and you have something that is worthless to you... then no taxes are evaded if we exchange our worthless items...

And if I don't happen presently own the worthless item that you need there is absolutely no law against me buying it and exchanging it anyway.

Think in the product mode... and in business mode.

For purposes of taxation, you aren't hobbyists... you are really just business failures.


No Government really wants to squeeze its small businesses to death... they prefer to bleed them to death.

As a manufacturer on this side of the pond... sales tax applys only to the sale of the final item... at least that's how it used to be, check with your accountant... there are a lot of companies have been paying taxes when they really don't have to just to avoid being publicly chastized...

So don't think of yourselves as hobbyists... think of yourselves as failed business tycoons.... or tycoons in the making just as soon as you get rid of your worthless stuff.

And if the vat collectors object to that ... well, let them hold you up to public scorn... but then you get to do the same thing to them...and you can... I'll help you.

Promise.

I'll start things off... over here an undocumented video chip goes for around $2.00. You probably don't have any need for undocumented video chips... but I might and I might not...Maybe I'm just trying to corner the market before Dennis does. That would mean that a new Hydra set up will set you back around 125 video chips, no questions asked.

Does that mean I have no use for the Hydra?... For purposes of Euro vats... I swear that I have no use for a Hydra... I don't even own one yet BUT I do like the Hydra concept and the good people that put it together.

So I wouldn't mind buying one... running my fingers over the bottom side a little... fondle the joystick for a while before officially determining that in a business sense it is tying up to much of my dwindling assets.... and then ship it right out to you in exchange for your worthless video chips.

See? We don't have to cheat. And we don't have to steal from our Governments.

There is no law against throwing out your worthless stuff or shipping it somewhere where it doesn't take up such valuable real estate.



Rich

rjo_
02-21-2007, 06:10 PM
Quattro...

I am an Irish-Polish-German-Cherokee-Islamic-Jew, so my please excuse my English:)

Rich

RytonMike
02-21-2007, 06:23 PM
Some personal observations from the UK:

The advice I have received from an expert is that small, isolated purchases of less than £30 value are of no interest to the VAT man. There is a requirement on the sender to put a description and the value on the package and all the transatlantic suppliers I have dealt with do so as a matter of course.

The shipping charges I have paid for small packages varies from $1 to $15 US. I would not use a supplier who requires more for low value/low bulk items.

Take as an example HVW in Calgary, CANADA ( www.HVWTech.com )

They offer propellers for the US asking price of $12.95 (£6.63 at today’s rate – the pound is strong at the moment http://forums.parallax.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

There is a $5 handling charge for orders under $30 so order 3 and pay by master card.

The shipping charge on my last order to them was $13.21 and the order arrived in 5 days. Excellent service – I have connection with this company.

3 props for $52.06 which is £26.68 in our money, £8.89 each.

In theory, Customs and Excise could intercept the package and request an import duty before delivery and you might have an extra cost of retrieving the package from them. Duty is at a similar level to VAT. This has never happened to me and I make two or three “global” purchases of this type a year.

So we don’t need any conspiracies do we?

Mike

QuattroRS4
02-21-2007, 08:27 PM
Rich (rjo_),
While the 'gift' idea was intimated - it was never going to be a 'real' option - but rather a means to call into action the good people of the forum with various options and solutions (which it did). Already I have my next shipment on the way (from a European supplier) .

Back to you for a moment - having read a number of your post replies I have to say I enjoyed them thoroughly as they are somewhat abstract compared to the normal reply - I certainly didn't expect 'Pricing' to invoke such a response ! But entertaining reading all the same.

Regards,
John

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'Necessity is the mother of invention'

simonl
02-21-2007, 09:13 PM
So, let me get this right; if I have 'productA' that I find to be surplus to my requirements/worthless to me, and I send it to you, and you send me 'productB' in exchange, neither of us need to pay tax / duty -- even if we also exchange money to the value of our respective shipping costs?

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Cheers,

Simon

BTW: I type as I'm thinking, so please don't take any offense at my writing style http://forums.parallax.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

-------------------------------
www.norfolkhelicopterclub.co.uk (http://www.norfolkhelicopterclub.co.uk)
You'll always have as many take-offs as landings, the trick is to be sure you can take-off again ;-)

QuattroRS4
02-22-2007, 06:37 AM
Yip it seems that way - but who in their right mind could we find to declare a truck load of Propellers surplus to needs or worthless !!! ... this chip is receiving so much attention ... even customs would smell a rat (lol)

Perhaps if we told them that we are now in the 'jet age' therefore 'Propellers' are out of Date !!!


Quattro

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'Necessity is the mother of invention'

Post Edited (QuattroRS4) : 2/21/2007 11:42:07 PM GMT

Dennis Ferron
02-22-2007, 12:33 PM
QuattroRS4 said...
Yip it seems that way - but who in their right mind could we find to declare a truck load of Propellers surplus to needs or worthless !!! ... this chip is receiving so much attention ... even customs would smell a rat (lol)


Perhaps if we told them that we are now in the 'jet age' therefore 'Propellers' are out of Date !!!



Quattro


Maybe we could pass some Basic "Stamps" off as "postage" on the outside of the box, as well.

QuattroRS4
02-22-2007, 11:06 PM
Nice one Dennis ...

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'Necessity is the mother of invention'

simonl
02-22-2007, 11:07 PM
LMAO!

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Cheers,

Simon

BTW: I type as I'm thinking, so please don't take any offense at my writing style http://forums.parallax.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

-------------------------------
www.norfolkhelicopterclub.co.uk (http://www.norfolkhelicopterclub.co.uk)
You'll always have as many take-offs as landings, the trick is to be sure you can take-off again ;-)