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Luis Digital
02-05-2007, 12:27 AM
This is a proposal for the people of Parallax.

The present compiler is not free (in no sense), since one must buy licenses of Windows to use it in several computers, for example a school (yes i would like to teach in a future this microcontrolador).

My proposal is that Parallax divide the tool in Compiler and GUI, if is not interested in creating a version for Linux, OSX, etc.

Thus it would be easier to create binary for many platforms. For example, use ASEM-51 (http://plit.de/asem-51/download.htm) in any system without problems.

GUI? There is not problem, would be able to use a edit of text or to create our GUI without problems.

The reason of this proposal is to eliminate the need that 10 compilers appear of ASM or SPIN different and incompatible among itself.

bassmaster
02-05-2007, 01:01 AM
whew, where to begin, You apparently want official tools, but many have already done non-official tools like you want.

Please do not take this personally, but I have seen this question and similar questions every few days and many have answered, I am not Chip or Mike Green, as they are 2 of the many Experts here, but here is my opinion.

1. parallax has done a bang up job in accomidating its customers.
2. They came up with a tokenizer for linux, give them some time I am sure they will deal with something similar for the prop, but it is new and to get it out the door quickly they made the IDE for the 95% of their target audience that use windows, cudo's for them, I am glad they did not wait untill every users dream was adressed until they released it.
3. sniff the serial port on the download to make any "downloader" for any OS you want.
4. There are already many posts here where people have done some of this for linux and osx already. Please the search engine. I always try to search before asking questions or making suggestions.

Friendly advice, please understand this is not meant to distract you from asking questions, I am no smarter that you, I have made similar posts and am not perfect by far, and am not trying to flame you, I am sure others feel similar when I have asked questions that have alsready been answered or can be found on google or this search engine.

The point is that there are quite a few people, yourself not included that seem to want others to do things for them by asking for it, when the answer is either obviously answered with some searching or they just do not want to do the work. I have asked for objects sometimes just because I did not want to re-invent the wheel, but in retrospect, the objects I asked for could be considered a challenge to me and I could just do it, then I am part of the solution. And it makes me feel better.

I personally would have phrased your request in an email directly to parallax or PM'ed one of the staff here as you stated: that it was a proposal for the people of parallax, yet you posted it on a public forum.

Regards,
Basssmaster

fyi 1+1=10

El Paisa
02-05-2007, 01:35 AM
Luis,

De que roca te desenterraron?

bassmaster
02-05-2007, 01:48 AM
Paisa, my spanish is not very good, I am curious what "Of which rock unearthed to you?" means in english?

Luis Digital
02-05-2007, 02:02 AM
My proposal is different to the previous: divide the tool in Compiler and GUI.

Thus Parallax would not have that to do again all the tool, even would be able to function with Wine 100% the same version of Windows, although I prefer binary for Linux.

Also the people that have problems with some ports USB would not have problem because would use other programs created by the community or private (not free).

Only I have 180 MBs free in "root" (/), but I am going to treat to install Wine to see if the present tool functions in Linux.

Someone to tested in Linux with Wine?

Mike Green
02-05-2007, 02:28 AM
I tried it in a commercial version of Wine and it didn't work. I believe the Propeller Tool uses some Windows features not yet implemented in Wine.

bassmaster
02-05-2007, 03:09 AM
Interesting, wine works with the pbasic compiler fine.. too bad this one does not.

Luis, I like the idea you have but I think that if you look at the search engine you will find many similar discussions.


Propeller development for non-Windows

http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=622354


Non IDE propeller chip programmer!

http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=626081

Seeking C compiler for Propeller

http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=603082


Standalone, cross-platform Propeller assembler
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=612725

http://www.cliff.biffle.org/software/propeller/propasm/


GEAR:

http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=625381

Possibly to be added:

* Internal compiler (source debugging and cross platform support mostly)...


Assembler / Compiler discussion:

http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=615022
·

Luis Digital
02-05-2007, 03:17 AM
Mike Green said...
I tried it in a commercial version of Wine and it didn't work. I believe the Propeller Tool uses some Windows features not yet implemented in Wine.


Serial Port or something more? (View picture).

If to exist a compiler that did not use graphic interface would function, since normally in the GUI is that are the problems with Wine.

Besides, a compiler in line of commands is easier to port to other systems.

bassmaster
02-05-2007, 03:23 AM
or export the registry from a PC that has a serial port. Its an enum somewhere....

bassmaster
02-05-2007, 03:24 AM
no maybe Parallax can answer this, Or spy the ide under windows on startup to see what the ide is looking at.

El Paisa
02-05-2007, 03:32 AM
"De que roca te desenterraron" ·means "from which rock you crawled from?"

bassmaster
02-05-2007, 03:44 AM
can you compile binary in wine? if so there is a python downloader somwhere around here, you could set up a script to look periodically for .binary in a specific folder, then download, then delete the file, then go back to looking every second or so...

Luis Digital
02-05-2007, 03:57 AM
bassmaster said...
can you compile binary in wine? if so there is a python downloader somwhere around here, you could set up a script to look periodically for .binary in a specific folder, then download, then delete the file, then go back to looking every second or so...


I can compile, the error is now with the port series. It is more than what I ask, the remainder I can do or to use "python downloader".

But first I will test more with Wine. Tomorrow I tell them the conclusion.

acantostega
02-05-2007, 02:37 PM
Interesting. I had no luck with Wine, but that was a while ago. In theory, the serial port is accesible from WINE.
(bassmaster, you forgot to link the "Propeller and Operating System' (http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=579200) which has been there since I first got into the forums...)
Yeah, a console, multipilatform Spin compiler would be nice, but I understand Parallax has other goals in the stack for now.
OT: What is "De que roca te desenterraron?" is supposed to mean? I'm Chilean, but I haven't heard the expression before.
EDIT: I guess it means something like "Have you been living under a rock?", which is a pretty literal translation.

Post Edited (acantostega) : 2/5/2007 7:04:27 AM GMT

Luis Digital
02-05-2007, 10:16 PM
Without luck. I copied some things of the registration of Windows, but did not work.

Only the people of Parallax knows how.

Do neither there is luck with "python downloader" :
"Uploading out.eeprom
Timeout error"

acantostega
02-07-2007, 06:53 AM
Just wondering... Have you verified the serial port works (under Linux)? Enabled support for it in the kernel, that the file in /dev has the correct permissions, the name Wine expects it to have (because, say, if you're using a USB RS232 adapter the device file may have some non-standard name like tts.USB0 or or be under /dev/tts/usb/ or what not ...

bassmaster
02-07-2007, 11:22 AM
I agree, check your .var/log/messages for when you plug in the s\adapter for errors.

Luis Digital
02-07-2007, 09:12 PM
acantostega said...
Just wondering... Have you verified the serial port works (under Linux)? Enabled support for it in the kernel, that the file in /dev has the correct permissions, the name Wine expects it to have (because, say, if you're using a USB RS232 adapter the device file may have some non-standard name like tts.USB0 or or be under /dev/tts/usb/ or what not ...


All that is well (even the chip does reset), the problem is that does not receive the string of verification. I know it because I am working in a version for Linux (native) of SerialUnit.pas

If had more time possibly already would be resolved.

acantostega
02-08-2007, 08:50 AM
Well it sounds like you're almost there, that's good to know.

Oliver H. Bailey
02-10-2007, 12:20 AM
Guys,
There are some good reasons why the Propeller IDE doesn't work in WINE, and splitting the code generator from the GUI won't (I SAY WON'T) make a difference. Fist of all, the FTDI drivers under Linux do not have the same functionality as their Windows counterparts, mainly because they were written by other people who know Linux and not the FTDI chip line. Even the FTDI libraries on Linux are subsets of the Windows libraries. So even if you get thte GUI working under WINE, you have other problems at the driver level to contend with.

Does the GUI work on WINE, the answer is yes. But the serial and USB-serial interface techniques are different.

Parallax has done a tremendous job in supporting the Linux community by providing tokenizers for the Basic Stamp. I disagree that Parallax has any responsibility in forcing customers to buy Windows. Parallax like many other companies have developed under DOS, Windows, Windows95, 98, 2K, and XP. Microsoft has made choices to upcharge customers, so that comment would be better suited to send to Mr. Gates. Many companies have a large investment in devloping their tools for Windows and moving from Windows to Linux is not an easy task. Many cpmpanies are moving to Linux in the future to provide a development platform for their users and surprisingly not because of Windows licensing fees. It's because they can provide a bootable CD with the OS, tools, and support applications nicely bundled so the developer can "boot and go" without messy installations, and without screwing around with device drivers.

The other alternative many companies are choosing is to write eclipse plug-ins. That approach does separate the IDE from the code generator but you still have the USB-serial driver differences to contend with.

And finally, until recently Linux treated serial ports as files. There is movement to a HAL layer to make porting Linux drivers to Windows easier (Windows drivers are totally fifferent in architecture) but it is going to be a long time, if ever before we see these driver technologies merge.

Luis Digital
02-12-2007, 06:12 AM
Some people have reported that some converters USB-Serial cannot detect the port neither the Propeller.

Test this small program for Windows: Project_Propeller. exe

Please to use an antivirus (because I not it use) and to report if its Propeller was detected.
Thanks.

Oliver H. Bailey
02-12-2007, 10:23 AM
Luis,
It depends on which USB-Serial converter is used. I've done very extensive testing and for a USB-UART that will be used as a Virtual Com Port, Silicon Labs CP2102 or CP2103 are top performers for reliabilty and speed. I've run continuious data in excess of 240 hours with no data loss or reliability isses. They work on Linux and MAC also and sustain a 1 Megabit baud rate. Prolific comes in second only because the technical documentation is not as available since they are in Taiwan.

FTDI comes in last. The FTDI chips choke at the 10 hour mark causing the Virtual COM port driver to simply hang. The cable has to be unplugged and re-connected to start data flow again. I just recently took all the FTDI products and put them in abox to sell on eBay.

Oliver

Bill Henning
02-12-2007, 10:41 AM
Oliver,

You would not happen to know if there are any XP64 drivers for the CP2102's? I could not find any by googling or on their site!


Best,

Bill


Oliver H. Bailey said...
Luis,
It depends on which USB-Serial converter is used. I've done very extensive testing and for a USB-UART that will be used as a Virtual Com Port, Silicon Labs CP2102 or CP2103 are top performers for reliabilty and speed. I've run continuious data in excess of 240 hours with no data loss or reliability isses. They work on Linux and MAC also and sustain a 1 Megabit baud rate. Prolific comes in second only because the technical documentation is not as available since they are in Taiwan.

FTDI comes in last. The FTDI chips choke at the 10 hour mark causing the Virtual COM port driver to simply hang. The cable has to be unplugged and re-connected to start data flow again. I just recently took all the FTDI products and put them in abox to sell on eBay.

Oliver

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www.mikronauts.com (http://www.mikronauts.com) - a new blog about microcontrollers

Jim Ewald
03-16-2007, 06:05 AM
Oliver,
I am curious about the test results for the various USB - serial converters that were posted earlier. I would like to reproduce the test environment and confirm the results posted here. Can you either post or pm me with the details of testing environment? Thanks.

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Jim

Parallax IT Dept.

Bill Chennault
03-16-2007, 10:54 AM
All--

Translated into American pseudo-slang, "De que roca te desenterraron?" means "Which rock did you crawl out from under?" It is not even good American, much less good English.

On another topic, I don't know much about linux, but anything that doesn't go with Wine is bad, very bad. I am a Third Dan Zin Master; preferably white.

--Bill

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You are what you write.